Not being able to pick up enemy specialized kits - No sense?

[SShadowFox]

Me and a friend were talking about the feature of not being able to pick up enemy specialized kits, like the H-AT and the AR, he was defending the theory that it's realistic picking up enemy kits depending on the situation, he gave this example:

I'm walking around the city when I found a full enemy squad, then right beside me a enemy kit, an AR, being able to pick up that kit, I can take out the squad and help the team, without being, I'll need to leave them there.

Then, I gave this example:

You, as a Insurgent for example, can't use a Javelin IRL, firstly, you don't have any training or practice, you'll end up not being able to fire that, commonly you need weeks and maybe months of training to be actually able to operate one of those things in a war, if an Insurgent see a Javelin, he can pick it up, but he won't be able to use it, because he don't know how.

So, what do the lads out there think, it's better with this? IMO it's much better and realistic.

[Pronck]

I think at this time the average insurgent is more than a untrained soldier. They are familiar with weapons and lots them had trainings in militia training camps. They definetly know how to use a M16 and they will also know how to shoot a M249. Reloading might be slower. The only problem in PR now is that you immediatly put on the kit geometries which is quit a pain in the ***. I think we should always allow the eneny to use the basic parts of the kits but not the specialized part (SRAW For example). However the medic kit should be available for all factions due to human rights.

[Super_Picanha]

Look, the limitation may be right in the case of a SRAW or an AT4, cus these weapons do need some training and practice to use em', but in the case of simple use weapons like a Negev or a 249 or even a M240(thinkin 'bout the future, yay), this limitation is a non-sense. Any insurgent that had already used a PKM before, will probably know how to use a M249 for example.

So, if it was this way, it would be awsome: Only HAT and LAT would be limited, maybe sniper, but all of the others should be useable by the enemy.

[KiloJules]

This again...it has been said and talked about so many times but here again...

A soldier gets trained/drilled on a specific weapon system. This is to make sure he knows how to reload, clean and generally operate this weapon. A taliban that has maybe never fired an AR-15 rifle before might oc still hit stuff but he would not be operating as good as the "owner". This (appearently) can not be implemented/simulated in-game.

For a conventional army (and specifically for "normal" soldiers) it is not realistic to switch their issued weapon with a 25 year old AK they find on the field, in the hands of a dead enemy.

Apart from those two reasons as of right now, you also pick up the enemy kit/gear which is specifically stupid as it is a) forbidden by Geneva convention (false flag attacks) and b) super stupid as it opens the door for Blue-on-Blue-incidents (in-game probably even more than IRL)

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IF we could just pick-up the weapon with 1 mag (that is already loaded) to quickly finish a guy when you are out of ammo, that would be cool and kinda realistic I guess. But wait a sec...you can already/still do that...no problemo!

[Super_Picanha]

Well, imagine that your squad is isolated in a flag, the rest of the team is dead or retreated and you are too far away from any kinda of suply crate and theres no way of suply you by air or any other mean, and your squad is lacking an MG gunner and you need it urgently in order to survive, and you luckly managed to kill an enemy MG gunner. Will you loose the chance to solve this problem? Capping this enemy equipment will help you a lot, and you will have a lot more chances of getting out of there alive and rejoin the rest of your team. I cant see no problem in using a enemy weapon on a emergency.
For insurgents, getting an excuse is even simpler, the enemy weapon is simply better than yours and it will give you the capacity of fighting the enemy on equal terms.
One solution to this could be removing the teammate moving points of your minimap(yeah, there would be only one point in your minimap, you) and making the nicknames appear only if you are at about, 1 meter of the guy. With this, identifiying a contact would be harder and realistic, and would make communication and planning even more important than it already is and would also be a REAL reason to not use an enemy weapon, rather than this senseless message that we currently have.

[Spec]

There are a lot of reasons for this. Many are realism things that can't be otherwise simulated in-game:

- You would IRL not be able to re-use the weapon you picked up after emptying it. In game, your own ammo sources can reload enemy weapons, which is very unrealistic. A taliban could steal not only an AT4, but he'd have unlimited AT4s as long as he isn't killed or cut off from ammo reserves.

- Taking away a kit in PR means that the faction whom it belonged to originally won't be able to spawn another of those kits due to kit restriction mechanics. It is intended that only 2 heavy ATs are available per team, it is not intended that one team gets 3 and the other 1, because one was stolen. IRL, the army whom it was stolen from would just get a replacement, in-game they'll never see that thing again until they found and killed the guy(s) who stole/carry it.

- It's very easy to use most weapons in PR. Even AT weapons are usually not hard to use at all, since they are designed to be used by a soldier in combat who might not have had much time to train with it, since the specialist could die and another man would have to take over, and not all soldiers can be experts at all weapon platforms. Shooting an AT4 isn't rocket science (no pun intended). However, proper maintenance, achieving good accuracy, dealing with problems caused by bad maintenance, and any other long-term operation and the quality of short-term operation depend on the knowledge of the user, and that knowledge would not always be a given.

I'll leave this open for a while so people can respond to my post, but take this as an official response.

[Kloppies]

Picking up enemy kits should definitely be restricted as it is now.

The only problem with how it is implemented is that you can pick up an enemy HAT kit and fire it before the screen goes black, which people will exploit if the opportunity is there.

When picking up kits, the primary weapon is always drawn if I'm not mistaken. Thus if you could somehow code it that when you switch to another weapon in a kit the screen goes black, or the kit is automatically dropped, or it is forced back to the primary weapon, that problem will be solved.

Obviously have no idea whether that is possible?

[BloodyDeed]

When picking up kits, the primary weapon is always drawn if I'm not mistaken. Thus if you could somehow code it that when you switch to another weapon in a kit the screen goes black, or the kit is automatically dropped, or it is forced back to the primary weapon, that problem will be solved.

Obviously have no idea whether that is possible?

Pretty sure that'd hardcoded and therefore not possible.
One of the main reasons is the issue with the kit geometries. You pretty much look like an enemy if you are using their kit.
This is not fixable without a tremendous amount of work.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Super_Picanha]

PR is that kinda of game where you get shot 17 times by a 7.62 NATO chambered battle rifle and after being shot, falls of a 20m high building and when finally at the gorund, gets revived by a epipen and walks like nothing happened, but you cant use the enemy weapon cus its not realistic.
I think you should think twice, and start to consider at least the removal of the limitation for the Medic and MGgunner kits.
Thank you for your attention.

[Mikemonster]

I remember when you could pick-up enemy kits.. Every guy on the Insurgent team would by the end of the round have scoped AR's .. It was hilarious.. And stupid.

[Pronck]

But......the medic kit, could you at least make the black-out timer with that kit about 1 minute? Or 30 seconds? Because we have the right to be healed and revived (Geneva Convention, UN Human Rights etc.). Or is it possible to make a "reload block" so you can't reload any enemy weapons.

[saXoni]

You're perfectly able to revive and heal with enemy medic kits the way it is now.

[Predator.v2]

Or is it possible to make a "reload block" so you can't reload any enemy weapons.

Unfortunately this is not possible and that is the reason (together with some others) that this "feature" has been introduced.

[ALFABETAS]

The only problem with how it is implemented is that you can pick up an enemy HAT kit and fire it before the screen goes black, which people will exploit if the opportunity is there.

How do you mean exploit? Use hat kit to shoot round in air, that some random guy which finds it have to go back to resupply? Because screen go black more then half way thru masturbating hat optics.

[Mongolian_dude]

I'd like to see what your Sgt would do to you if you dropped your weapon in combat. It hear it rarely happens IRL, soldiers rolling into combat with enemy weapons. Right now, you've got enough time to pick up and AK, empty the mag and maybe another one, before you have to pick up your issued weapon and scoot.

The advantage to the teamworker is minimal, whereas the advantage to the lone wolf is greater. I am opposed to it, simply because its more stewpid having enemy with your weapons that it is have your enemies weapons. As if there wernt enough TKs right now anyway.

...mongol...

[Xander[nl]]

PR is that kinda of game where you get shot 17 times by a 7.62 NATO chambered battle rifle and after being shot, falls of a 20m high building and when finally at the gorund, gets revived by a epipen and walks like nothing happened, but you cant use the enemy weapon cus its not realistic.
I think you should think twice, and start to consider at least the removal of the limitation for the Medic and MGgunner kits.

The revive system is something completely different, and is kept in for gameplay reasons only. The ability to revive and heal might be unrealistic in some ways, but it is one of the most important aspects of PR's teamwork.

The main problem with the rest of the kits is that someone who isn't trained to use one will not be able to operate it effectively. Surely an M249 would be usable by an insurgent to some extend, but he sure as hell wouldn't be able to fire it as good as a trained US infantryman. However, the game cannot simulate this. It cannot give accuracy or reload penalties to someone who picks up a foreign kit. Together with the unrealistic ability (again due to the game's limited mechanics) to reload enemy weapons at friendly supplies, it's therefor to the best of gameplay to remove the picking up of enemy kits alltogether.

[KiloJules]

How do you mean exploit? Use hat kit to shoot round in air, that some random guy which finds it have to go back to resupply? Because screen go black more then half way thru masturbating hat optics.

He probably means that it is still VERY much possible to kill a vehicle with the hat kit of the enemy team. Either cause you can shoot before going black (fast deploy time) or blind (just via sound).

As I have encountered that just on very few occasions I don't think this is a big problem though.
The vast majority of people (incl. me) does it as you described - blind fire the rocket in the air to make it empty.

[ALFABETAS]

I'd like to see what your Sgt would do to you if you dropped your weapon in combat. It hear it rarely happens IRL, soldiers rolling into combat with enemy weapons. Right now, you've got enough time to pick up and AK, empty the mag and maybe another one, before you have to pick up your issued weapon and scoot.

The advantage to the teamworker is minimal, whereas the advantage to the lone wolf is greater. I am opposed to it, simply because its more stewpid having enemy with your weapons that it is have your enemies weapons. As if there wernt enough TKs right now anyway.

...mongol...

Yea you can empty the mag but not in the enemy of brilliant gun accuracy. Where you must wait and still don't hit shit.

[dzigiman]

It would be much more realistic if the insurgent could use enemy's riffle's....i dont see reason why is officer , medic, marksman, sniper or any other kit except hat forbidden for insurgents...insurgents with these rules got 20 per cent chance to win becouse cache's are usually ghosted by the other side......atacking side got armors, air support...everything....this rules its not fer for defending side and people hate to play it...it usually to see that the players changing side (to us, canada) ....nobody wanna be insurgets becouse they are soo weak....

[Mikemonster]

It would be much more realistic if the insurgent could use enemy's riffle's....i dont see reason why is officer , medic, marksman, sniper or any other kit except hat forbidden for insurgents...insurgents with these rules got 20 per cent chance to win becouse cache's are usually ghosted by the other side......atacking side got armors, air support...everything....this rules its not fer for defending side and people hate to play it...it usually to see that the players changing side (to us, canada) ....nobody wanna be insurgets becouse they are soo weak....

Seriously it gets ridiculous. Imagine an Ins team with sniper and HAT kits, and the Blufor team not able to request them (because of how the game works).

Because of the nature of Insurgency the Insurgents end up with all of Blufor's weapons (in lots of cases after attacking just to get them).

Why can't you drive the enemies cars, tanks etc? Because it'd be silly.