Collaborator ROE

[Axis_Sniper]

Hey guys, after reading this thread and attempting to post in this thread I decided to make a new thread(Sorry.)

I am not trying to suggest punishments for the Blufor faction, just a new ROE for the collaborators. Anyways, my idea: Changing the ROE from using a specific tool, to being within range of an insurgent.

So let's say Bob the Coolaborator is standing on a hill. If he is within X amount of meters of an insurgent, he's within ROE. If was near one within the past X seconds, he's within ROE. Maybe if he has binoculars out too, who knows.


The reason I'm suggesting this is because of the threads mentioned above. Most people don't want stricter punishments because of Collaborators jumping into enemy fire. This could possibly help with that as well as presenting a more realistic view of the civilian/collaborator; IE avoiding firefights, not blowing your cover and letting the Blufor know you're best bros with the local insurgents. This shouldn't stop players from having a more frontline role with the collaborator kit, just he should be treated as an insurgent if he's standing near them by the Blufor.

Welp that's my idea. Thoughts? Critics?

[40mmrain]

how about, the kit gets totally removed.

[Smiddey723]

How would you feel if you were looking out of your window with binoculars one day and the next thing, the US army is shooting at you

seriously though, its fine as it is

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Actually I like this idea, so mortars squads would not be in ROE and if the mortars kill civilians then it's their fault for standing in mortar fire.

[ExeTick]

I like that with mortars. its just a pain to kill civis with mortars and you cant even help it.

[40mmrain]

How would you feel if you were looking out of your window with binoculars one day and the next thing, the US army is shooting at you

seriously though, its fine as it is

if you are a civi in the combat area looking out your windows at tanks you will get shot, and this is completely within the ROE, and practiced regularly. Real civis run for the god damn hills.

[Psyrus]

I like that with mortars. its just a pain to kill civis with mortars and you cant even help it.

One could have a proper spotter who makes sure the target area is clear of collaborators.

One could do surgical strikes (1-2 mortars) which would not allow collaborators to organize themselves to run into the mortars.

One could mortar only high priority targets like hideouts instead of area-rape.

One could use more smoke rounds to assist your infantry in getting close to the action rather than trying to indiscriminately lay waste to the whole area.

==================

I believe collaborators are supposed to be a force-denier for the blufor as they already far overpower insurgents in everything but CQB. Collaborators prevent blufor from just sitting at a distance, sipping a mojito and shelling all life out of an area, be it from mortars, tanks, APCs, HAT kits... you name it.

Insurgent forces that are slightly better equipped (like the taliban and militia) do not get such force-deniers as the playing field is somewhat more even.

So let's say Bob the Coolaborator is standing on a hill. If he is within X amount of meters of an insurgent, he's within ROE. If was near one within the past X seconds, he's within ROE. Maybe if he has binoculars out too, who knows.

I like this idea and I think I mentioned it a few years ago in a different thread. It would definitely serve to reduce the amount of gaming (of the system) that goes on currently. Other such conditions could be added like being close to the weapons cache so you can't do what I sometimes do:

- Wait near cache until blufor get close, if I see they're nearing the cache I quickly run inside, grab an RPK etc and try to gun them down... if successful I go back to collaborator and heal up anyone who didn't give up. Being right near the cache should have some kind of penalty imo.

[risegold8929]

Only trouble I have with this new system you are proposing if that some idiot can come along, sneak up on you and ruin your ROE protection (accidental or on purpose), and you are almost always guaranteed to walk near a friendly Insurgent in your lifetime.
After playing many, many rounds as a Civi, the only time I have been killed time and time again is from people who purposely kill Civilians(E.g. Just the other day the LAV gunner was ignoring Civis, but the driver would run us over), this won't stop this from happening.
Civilians are the one of the most effective way to protect caches. By getting killed by idiots who don't check their target carefuly you deny the enemy intelligence points and your cache is safe for those extra few minutes.
Adapt to civilians and don't fire mortars where there are civilians running around or mortar caches where everyone gathers around.

[Axis_Sniper]

Only trouble I have with this new system you are proposing if that some idiot can come along, sneak up on you and ruin your ROE protection (accidental or on purpose), and you are almost always guaranteed to walk near a friendly Insurgent in your lifetime.

Yeah, I was thinking of that scenario while typing this, only thing I can suggest is check your map every now and then and see where everyone is. As well as keeping the the ROE timer low when passed by an insurgent.

I'm not trying to make the collaborator fear being in a firefight to the point where it's counter-productive. Just have it so Collaborators can be more effective at doing as they were designed.

I also wanna refrain from discussing Blufor punishments on shooting outside ROE, it's a whole another can of worms and I didn't make this thread to discuss that.

[waldov]

I think ur idea sounds pretty good but my biggest worry is that not enough people use the collaborator kit as is and any more restrictions will limit this amount. What i propose is that collaborators have a more practical role like being able to plant a IED. think about it most IED operators often pose as civilians it would make civilians more useful and add abit more of the IED element to insurgency mode. also if they plant an IED u should be able to shoot them so if u catch them in the job or theyre obviously overlooking an IED they can still be shot. Would up the ante a little bit and simulate alot of what really happens down there.

[fabioxxxx]

bluefor lovers go figures...i don't think iraq insurgents need more crippling, they can't even request kits ... [R-CON]Psyrus explanation was perfect ...

[tankninja1]

Honestly all civies in PR are guilty of helping the enemy, besides what kind of civilian stands in the open during a mortar strike in real life?

As a person doomed to the insurgent team 75% of the time I know the only real purpose of civies are human shields to annoy the s*** out of Blufor assets.

[Mikemonster]

They aren't civilians, they are collaborators.. No, in real life collaborators wouldn't run into mortar strikes to make Blufor look bad. But in PR they are there to safeguard against the area-attack style of using mortars.

If you have a look at a real life equivalent, in Fallujiah lots of civilians died. By that reasoning it would be unrealistic not to represent this in some manner in PR.

[Axis_Sniper]

Tell you the truth I forgot how collaborators were effective at making Blufor hesitate on the "shoot everything" button when I made this thread. I didn't make this thread to nerf collaborators, far from it. I wanted the collaborator to do more than meatshield and occasionally heal. I was hoping with this ROE change we could see them as more of a spotter/support force. Maybe set up hidden triage centers or trick Blufor into thinking an area is safe with collaborators running around.

[mangeface]

Collaborators using rocks should automatically be in the ROE to be shot.

Afghan’s rock attack on col. ends badly for him - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps Times

It's annoying as shit when you can't get a full squad together, so you head out with 3 or 4 guys and 10 collaborator's jump you and only 1 guy can shoot. I think they should automatically be in the ROE to be killed cause IRL a military squad would put up with shit like that, no matter the repercussions. The ROE should be adjusted for the kit or just get rid of the kit period and make a nerfed medic, similar to the collaborator but with an SKS or Scorpion and nerf another kit to have the grappling hook.

[risegold8929]

Collaborators using rocks should automatically be in the ROE to be shot.

Afghan?s rock attack on col. ends badly for him - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps Times

It's annoying as shit when you can't get a full squad together, so you head out with 3 or 4 guys and 10 collaborator's jump you and only 1 guy can shoot. I think they should automatically be in the ROE to be killed cause IRL a military squad would put up with shit like that, no matter the repercussions. The ROE should be adjusted for the kit or just get rid of the kit period and make a nerfed medic, similar to the collaborator but with an SKS or Scorpion and nerf another kit to have the grappling hook.

Very unlikely situation. Only once have I seen a large amount of 8 civilians together. Besides, when civvies see a shotgun, they run like hell. Either those civvies are idiots and want to get arrested or your specialist is an idiot who didn't use his shotgun or even bother to show it.

[KiloJules]

I love the collaborateur kit and have very strong feelings/opinions about it for various reasons:

1. It is useful as hell, especially and imo almost only in the SL role!

a) The fact that the SL as a "civi" can spot/scout with a bit more of freedom than anyone with a gun is uber-important here! You can mark the living s*it out of the enemy, so the whole team/squad knows about them and what they are doing, you distract them (not only using rocks, I barely use them!), you lure them into the line of fire of other team mates, etc.

b) As you are leading the squad you should be concentrated on thinking, planing, ordering, communicating, again thinking, setting hideouts, etc. on not so much on the killing spree! Not saying a SL can't shoot and kill stuff, far from that. But his priorities should be different!

c) In b) you thought it would be good to have that AR cover from that balcony over there? Nice, you can directly set him up there, you don't have to tell another dude where and how he needs to throw that rope up there, you just do it, cause YOU are carrying the hook.

d) In the more than likely case someone gets shot down, you as the SL quickly swift up a plan on how to revive and...do it!

2. Some improvement is also needed though (maybe, dependent)

a) If realistic, a "civi" using the rocks should be allowed to be shot. I think about it like so: the civi is a very sketchy person, afterall he chills with AK wearing guys and what not. But as he is not wearing a weapon himself it is way harder to proof it to him. But on various occasions it becomes clear that he is actively helping the insurgency, therefore a threat and allowed to be engaged. Apart from that EVERY freaking soldier is fitted with handcuffs to catch him and interogate him further.

b) People need to stop using this kit as a pure troll machine! I HATE civi only squads as they hinder the team so much more than anything else. If they at least would have someone wear the same base clothes and a not so visible kit-geo/weapon while being covered by a group of similar looking civis...like in assassins creed or sth. but they don't. They troll, mostly fail, and give away tons of IPs with it. Why? Cause people often don't really understand the game mechanics. When and when not to "give intel away" or quickly respawn.

c) The intel system needs to be reviewed, in general and looking from what we got in 0973 specifically for the civi class.

Need to end this now real quick: NwA has fallujah west...need to join my US loving friends though

[lgm]

Identify the target before you spray your AR at it.

[Arab]

That's why shotgun shots arrest civilians when they are up in areas that a shotgun shot can fire.

The system is fine. If there's more civilians, it's less defense for the team, except when also in the cases where RPG Insurgents are covered by one. You could always ignore civilians and go to cache, then while some squads focus on one cache, the rest can flank the area on all sides (Depending if the squad members are skilled enough) and then civi arrest with some sneak.

Stealth, but tactics and team-work and in a stable pace.

And as far as I know, healing a player results in the ability for the Army to arrest you/kill you. If not, then it should be pretty easy to fix.