Ask the [Dev]s a (?)

[tankninja1]

From my experience more than 1/2 the team on Falklands 8k map use the assets making for weak pitiful infantry fights.

[40mmrain]

From my experience more than 1/2 the team on Falklands 8k map use the assets making for weak pitiful infantry fights.

impossible, at most, there are 7 jets, and two helicopters on the argentine side, and about the same for the brits, and the scorpion. In either case, thats far less than many maps. Further still the actual parts of the map in play for infantry arent larger than what would normally be in play for the 4KM maps. In fact, in it's current layer I would argue the islands should be much bigger for a good reason.

In my opinion the reason the infantry suffer on the falklands are multiple flags, and flags that are too small. On top of that a total lack of overgrowth to hide in, a total lack of static trenches, and the time it takes to set up FOBs make infantry combat mostly "coverless", and a nightmare.

What I found occurred were three gameplay flaws with the infantry combat in PR. Firstly, with multiple flags in play per side, oft one flag was simply undefended. This is just not how the game is supposed to work. A linearized layer would be appropriate, where only a single flag is in play at once, this would serve for much more focused infantry combat, where teams dont get overextended. In fact, the smaller "Std" layer would be probably be best for this, as 120+ servers would be appropriate to have enough inf to occupy 3-4 flags at once.

Secondly, some flags are too small. TEal inlet is no more than 3 small buildings, a grenade's throw from mount malo. Mount malo itself is just a small little hill. Basically, assaulting them, is a guaranteed capture. You know precisely where the enemy is, they lack entrenchment, and youre right next to them. When Malo is captured by the british, as it usually is right at the beginning of the game, the argentines have just barely arrived at teal to capture, and hold it. THey have no time, or cover to set up defenses, and have little place to hide. This results in objectives that are nearly impossible to uphold, which does not serve the game at all. The teal inlet flag, is simply not sufficient to be worth fighting over and does not facilitate good gameplay. The best option, in my opinion is to simply throw it out, and not have it as a flag. Even though it was fought over in the real falklands war, the island is too small to have it sufficiently far away enough from malo, and the too small to have a decent sized town worth fighting over in the PR version.

Finally, the lack of entrenchment is confusing infantry combat where death is assured. In the real falklands war, im sure that both sides regularly dug out trenches at various points of fighting. Static trenches, like the one seen in project normandy maps could be added. Further still foxholes that are fully built as soon as they are deployed, or take literally 2 or 3 shovels would match the actual pace that the enemy faces you. Because of so many flags, that are so close, and so small, it is difficult to set up anything before being heavily assaulted by air, and land. Goose green does not have much cover, but it has some grass, which allows prone players to not stick out so much. If it were possible it, would be brilliant to have some shin high grass on falklands.

Overall, a lot of the "criticism" for falklands are just bad players unwilling to think, and adapt to a new game. I LIKE falklands, it is DIFFERENT, and thats GOOD. Different requies players to devise new tactics, to think, and keeps the game from becoming boring, and stale. New weapons, and voices are pretty, but using them the exact same way as weapons before is almost nothing new. A new map, and assets that are radically different from before are what will keep PR great. However, there is a fine line between "challenging" and "broken". The falklands infantry combat is bordering on broken, but still has much potential to be good.

[Rhino]

From my experience more than 1/2 the team on Falklands 8k map use the assets making for weak pitiful infantry fights.

Funny how just because the map has a lot more jets than any other map everyone seems to think this...

This thread here lists all the assets for every game mode and layer: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... lands.html

Now taking The Falklands AAS 64 (AAS Standard Layer) here is what we have:

Spoiler for Assets:

GBHMS Invincible4x Sea Harrier FRS1 (Fighter) [5min Delayed Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (A - Ground Attack - 2x 500lb Bombs) [5min Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (C - Ground Attack - 2x 36, 2" (50mm) Rocket Pods, 72 Total) [5min Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (B -Ground Attack - 2x 1000lb LGB) [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x Wessex Helicopters [5min Spawn, max of 2]
- ATC, Radar & AA DefencesAtlantic Conveyor (Destroyable)1x Chinook CH1 [10min Delayed Spawn, max of 3]San Carlos / Bomb Alley2x Logi Trucks [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x Landrover Support [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x Scorpion [30min Delayed Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesGoose Green1x RHIB [10min Delayed Spawn]ArgentinaArgentina2x Mirage IIIEA (Fighter) [5min Spawn]
1x IAI Dagger (Fighter Bomber) [5min Delayed Spawn]
2x A-4C Skyhawk (Ground Attack) [5min Spawn]
1x Mirage IIIEA AS (Anti-Shipping) [10min Delayed Spawn]
- ATC, Radar & AA DefencesPebble Island1x A-1H Skyraider (Ground Attack) [5min Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesStanley3x Logi Trucks [5min Spawn]
2x Transport Trucks [5min Spawn]
1x UH-1H Iroquois [10min Spawn, Max of 2]
1x Hippie Van (Support Jeep) [5min Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesGoose Green1x RP [No Respawn]
1x ZPU-4 AAAMt. Tumbledown1x RP [No Respawn]

Basically to summarise, out of 64 players (32 a side):
Brits will commonly have around 7 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all assets have spawned, none have been shot down and the Atlantic Convey has spawned and spawned all of its 3 Chinooks which takes 40mins to do so at the very min assuming that each Chinook was taken off the spawn directly after it spawned, a max of 14 players in vehicles. (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)
Argies will also commonly have around 7 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all the assets have spawned and none destroyed a max of 9 players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)


Now lets take Kashan, a standard 4k map I think everyone would agree where many people will claim its good for infantry combat due to the bunkers in the middle of the map.

Spoiler for Assets:

USUS Main4x us_tnk_m1a2 [No Re-Spawn]
2x us_ifv_m2a2 [No Re-Spawn]
3x us_tnk_m1a2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x us_ifv_m2a2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x us_aav_avenger [10min Delayed Spawn]
2x us_the_uh60 [10min Spawn]
1x us_ahe_kiowa_alt2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x us_jet_f16 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x us_jet_a10a [20min Delayed Spawn]MECMEC Main4x mec_tnk_t72 [No Re-Spawn]
2x mec_tnk_bmp3 [No Re-Spawn]
3x mec_tnk_t72 [20min Delayed Spawn]
2x mec_ifv_bmp3 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x mec_aav_gopher [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_tow_shturm [20min Delayed Spawn]
2x mec_the_mi17 [10min Spawn]
1x mec_ahe_sa341h [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_jet_mig29 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_jet_su25a [20min Delayed Spawn]

Note: this is also not bothering to list any of the trucks, jeeps, aa etc in the map like I did with the Falklands...

Basically to summarise, out of 64 players (32 a side):
The US will commonly have around 14 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all assets have spawned, none have been destroyed, with a max of 32 players in vehicles. (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)
The MEC will also commonly have around 14 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all the assets have spawned and none destroyed, with a max of also 32 players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)


Now so to compare, common amount of players in vehicles:
Falklands GB: 7
Falklands Arg: 7
Kashan US: 14
Kashan MEC: 14

Max amount of players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps, trucks etc):
Falklands GB: 14
Falklands Arg: 9
Kashan US: 32
Kashan MEC: 32

Kashan has double the amount of common players in vehicles, in fact, 1/2 of the server and in its max, waaay over double the amount that the Falklands has, in fact, a slot for every single player in the server as a driver/gunner/pilot...
And basically any other 4km map in PR is pretty much the same story...


Also before anyone comes out with the argument of "The Falklands being 8kms means that the ground combat is waay more spread out", the ground combat is focused into a 3km by 2km area, which is basically the same as a normal 4km map.
Here is the Falklands minimap, with the Kashan minimap overlayed over the NE Falklands where all the ground combat is, and as you can see, and you can see, really nothing different in terms of ground combat area...

Secondly, some flags are too small. TEal inlet is no more than 3 small buildings, a grenade's throw from mount malo. Mount malo itself is just a small little hill. Basically, assaulting them, is a guaranteed capture. You know precisely where the enemy is, they lack entrenchment, and youre right next to them. When Malo is captured by the british, as it usually is right at the beginning of the game, the argentines have just barely arrived at teal to capture, and hold it. THey have no time, or cover to set up defenses, and have little place to hide. This results in objectives that are nearly impossible to uphold, which does not serve the game at all. The teal inlet flag, is simply not sufficient to be worth fighting over and does not facilitate good gameplay. The best option, in my opinion is to simply throw it out, and not have it as a flag. Even though it was fought over in the real falklands war, the island is too small to have it sufficiently far away enough from malo, and the too small to have a decent sized town worth fighting over in the PR version.

Humm, you may have a point there. I could very well remove Teal Inlet, will definitely consider that one for the next version.

Finally, the lack of entrenchment is confusing infantry combat where death is assured. In the real falklands war, im sure that both sides regularly dug out trenches at various points of fighting. Static trenches, like the one seen in project normandy maps could be added. Further still foxholes that are fully built as soon as they are deployed, or take literally 2 or 3 shovels would match the actual pace that the enemy faces you. Because of so many flags, that are so close, and so small, it is difficult to set up anything before being heavily assaulted by air, and land. Goose green does not have much cover, but it has some grass, which allows prone players to not stick out so much. If it were possible it, would be brilliant to have some shin high grass on falklands.

Digging trenches into the terrain, with mesh terrain like what the Falklands has is pretty complicated, although when done, can be done much better than normal terrain, with normal terrain its a much more simple process of just digging a hole by just pushing the terrain down with its grid, and then placing a static in it. With mesh terrain, the way I've done mine so its optimized you don't have a nice grid to work with, and playing with the terrain requires lots of rework to the mesh structure and the terrain's UVs etc. Also the bigger problem is really with the map's scale, not many places can really house trenches etc. Although I would like to see some ideas of where trenches could be on the map (and if possible taking into historical accuracy)

[Conman51]

Where did Fuzzhead go?

I cant find him on the retired list or the Active Dev list when searching for members.

[AfterDune]

Still in the memberlist? -> Project Reality Forums - Members List

[Heavy Death]

From my experience more than 1/2 the team on Falklands 8k map use the assets making for weak pitiful infantry fights.

Nope. Its just 7+2 in air assets, 10 at main, 2 in one man squads, a squad in A1 doing absolutely nothing and actually your squad doing the fighting. Mistery solved.

[victor_phx]

This is not worth opening a new thread, so I'm asking here.

Where can I find the music from the mini-mods? I can only find the regular PR music in the common_client .zip file. Where does the music come from, by the way? Who made it?

[Doc.Pock]

Most is made by alkali iirc. For minimods try the levels common client or whatever it is

[Adriaan]

The Falklands map's loading music was composed for the map by Jafar. The others use third party tracks, I think. As Doc said, if they're not in the main music folder, they should be in the respective level's own folders.

[Heavy Death]

Whats the name of Omaha laoding music?

[TH3pilot]

Whats the name of Omaha laoding music?

Two steps from hell - Heart of Courage

[SShadowFox]

EDIT: F*cking Ninjas.

[Rhino]

This is not worth opening a new thread, so I'm asking here.

Where can I find the music from the mini-mods? I can only find the regular PR music in the common_client .zip file. Where does the music come from, by the way? Who made it?

Falklands loading music you can find in this blog here: Falklands Loading Music

[paul161616]

Dear Devs, will the black spots on terrain when using ati graphics cards be fixed in 1.0?

[Heavy Death]

Two steps from hell - Heart of Courage

Haha,i was listening to protectors of the earth and it just didnt add up.

[ghostfool84]

One little question about the 3D Marker and 2D Marker above the compass.

Will the problem be fixed that the 2D Marker disappears when the 3D Marker comes in sight (<100m). I think the best would be if it simply stays above the compass even when the 3D Marker is in sight. Sometimes confusing when tabbing out.

[Doc.Pock]

Also 3d marker is hard to see sometimes.

[Sniperdog]

One little question about the 3D Marker and 2D Marker above the compass.

Will the problem be fixed that the 2D Marker disappears when the 3D Marker comes in sight (<100m). I think the best would be if it simply stays above the compass even when the 3D Marker is in sight. Sometimes confusing when tabbing out.

This is actually done for a reason. In order to make the 2D marker appear in game we have to do a lot of crazy stuff with the BF2 engine (I won't go into detail but the most important thing is that it requires file creation and deletion by an external binary).

For that reason in order to not affect performance the 2D marker can only be updated once every few seconds. We tested it out and realized that within a certain range the 2d marker because very misleading and it looks bad when it shows it is clearly out of sync with the 3d marker. Since the 3d marker is already there and it would appear buggy if left in we just left the 2d marker out for close ranges.

[ghostfool84]

Ah okay i didnt know that there is a reason for that, thanks for explaining.

...but maybe its possible to reduce the transparency of the 3d marker near 100m, so you dont have to turn around a hundred times while pressing alt only to find out that the marker is there but not really visible.

[ShockUnitBlack]

Tim, did anything ever become of this beautiful model?