Squads way off target

[Gracler]

How come almost every map there is a couple of squads that are on a secret mission in the middle of nowhere?

I can understand that it is important to find and destroy enemy mortars and fob's, but since that is operated by 2-4 people it can hardly be worth sending 6-12 players out in the middle of nowhere to search and destroy them.

On the other hand it is not practical to sit and wait directly on a flag but at-least be within walking distance if its going neutral should be logical.

The reaction time of Squad-leaders to respond to enemy attacks also seem to be lagging if they are already engaged. Disengaging an enemy to proceed for a more important objective that is not loosing 30 tickets is handled wrong often.

Flags are lost very frequently on most maps, with little or no fights because the team is busy "fighting" elsewhere. The epic firefights starts when 32 or more players are fighting over the same flag instead of 6 enemy's walking over an enemy flag capturing it with almost no resistance.

I don't want to discourage aspiring squad leaders (since squad leaders are in short supply) but please keep your head in the game and keep the big picture in mind since commanders are even more rare.

Tank and apc squads are the worst at going off target. Its rare to see armor near an objective, but atleast they can respond rather quickly, but they also often forget to do that if they are already chasing 1 infantry guy in the middle of nowhere

[a3dboy1]

I bet, players think that flanking from behind is the only succesful tactics in PR. And only such behaviour guarantee victory to your team. Unless some dumb n00b squad will provide frontal attack on the flags...:\

[Gracler]

Not completely sure what your getting at (or if your joking) but without that Front-line noob squad there wont be any flanks to take. The defenders could be looking in any direction.

[a3dboy1]

"Avoid predictive paths to the target" (c) Loading Menu Hints.

Infantry combat in PR is "90% walking, 5% reviving and 5% fighting". Why do you want to take away the sweetest part of gameplay?

OT: What you mentioned here is lack of understanding how experienced players see the battlefield in PR. I suggest you to join some "N0 n00bs" squad with clan members and ask them why they're currently "on a secret mission in the middle of nowhere".

P.S. n00b squads don't engage - they defend.

[ghostfool84]

What really bugs me, is that it happens often that your Squad attacks or defends a flag while all other squads lurk somewhere (e.g. Kashan Hills or somewhere in middle of nowhere to "cut enemy supply lines) and one is in caprange of the flags. So flags get lost and there are 3 squads around the flag but nobody moves in because they can get more kills with their HAT or Marksman Kit somewhere else.

There is nothing wrong with a 3 man Squad to mine Roads or ambush enemys, but a quick look at the map shows where are people needed but it seems some people just give a sh*t about that.

[sweedensniiperr]

taking the long way eh?

flanking eh?

doing something smart eh?

[a3dboy1]

taking the long way eh?

flanking eh?

doing something smart eh?

Aren't they preparing for East Beach attack?

[Gracler]

"Avoid predictive paths to the target" (c) Loading Menu Hints.

Most maps offer a lot of cover for advancing especially the Normandy maps but still you see squads spending a lot of time creeping around the perimeter of the map and 1 enemy can stop there "sneaky" business making them waste even more time while there flag is being lost.

Flank all you want....when the flag is lost because your team was "flanking" the bold advancing team wins. I've seen it happens so many times now.

Flanking is a good tactic dont get me wrong...but it only works if 1 squad is keeping the full attention of the enemy while another squad is "flanking". creeping around the map is not flanking...its avoiding danger and being rather useless for the team

[Gracler]

What really bugs me is that it happens often that your Squad attacks or defends a flag while all other squads lurk somewhere (e.g. Kashan Hills or somewhere in middle of nowhere to "cut enemy supply lines) while no one is in caprange of the flags. So flags get lost and there are 3 squads around the flag but nobody moves in because they can get more kills with there HAT or Marksman Kit somewhere else.

Yes Kashan is a good example of people just digging in in the mountains while watching the bunkers fall. The fastest team normally wins this map granted they have armor support...and walking around in the middle of nowhere will just slow you down.

Good PR players knows when NOT to shoot, and bad players only care about there own kill score.

[Mikemonster]

Because there are never enough players in PR

Therefore the map is empty.

Therefore it makes sense to sneak onto the next flag by sprinting the long way round, rather than having to co-ordinate an attack with other squads that is far too complex and never happens as it is intended to.

Hence most PR players recognise that it is much better to lead their squad on a rush through empty space, never intending to fight, because you can often arrive unmolested by enemy fire and THEN start to play as you intended.

The running and (perhaps) FOB building is just the boring foundation work each SL does to enable him to enjoy himself.

Like a sniper sprinting to the best camping spot. He knows the chances of getting 'caught' on the way to his objective are slim on an unpopulated map, and that if he dies he can just spawn in again and go on an even longer route.

(As for those times a squad is way off the flag, generally an active FOB anywhere is useful, if they intend to build one then their absence from the flag is generally justified.)

[tankninja1]

If they are near a flag odds are that the flag might have been capped they just had no way to move off the flag to the other side of the map.

[Gracler]

Therefore it makes sense to sneak onto the next flag by sprinting the long way round, rather than having to co-ordinate an attack with other squads that is far too complex and never happens as it is intended to.

I thought this was why people play PR because of the complex teamwork?. But I agree even a simple "Squad 1 you engage from this point while we (squad 2) go around and flank" can seem like a complex tactic and will very rarely happen unless if the 2 squad-leaders know each-other.

[Mikemonster]

Well.. It's nice to think of PR as two teams of interlinked squads, in constant communication and working together efficiently to destroy the opposition.

Unfortunately it's just not like that.. Teamwork is not mandatory (thank god). It doesn't always follow that teamwork will defeat the enemy team.

Teamwork to me is knowing that other squads are geographically close. I don't expect overlapping fields of fire, co-ordinated attacks, reliance on each other.

Usually though if another squad is geographically close, you get these anyway - Which is great.

I suppose I don't mean complex teamwork, I mean carefully co-ordinated teamwork.

There is teamwork in PR, and I left out using assets (which is very difficult as well), but generally I believe it occurs because players understand how to help each other without lengthy discussion.

Undoubtedly something similar happens in a desperate battle in real life, although it's not really comparable.

[Rudd]

the point about 64p is true imo, the distances between squads can be massive on a map like Yamalia.

But the mindset required to keep the team together (and therefore more effective, as long as you aren't all clumped together in the same building) is very simple.

Instead of "where shall we go/attack/defend?"

I always think

"where is the team currently going/attacking/defending, and how can my squad aid in that effort?"

It's not, 'lets go attack north city'...it's Squad 6 is attacking North city, 'lets form up on their right flank and help them'.

From that simple stepping stone you build your radio communications and squad level tactics.

[Gracler]

Again I kinda agree with you Mike. It isn't necessary to be communicate a lot with other squad-leaders if you can anticipate what they are going to do. Though it would be nice with more short status reports from all 6 men infantry squads, once in a while, like we are loosing our flag or we are about to move to the next flag.

Personally I keep the squad radio as clear as possible and only use it when something is critical like loosing a flag. I don't consider myself a good squad-leader though so I mostly play as squad-member backing up the squad-leader trying to make his job easier since i know it can be a pain.

When i'm a squad-leader I often find myself alone on the flag and when i look over my shoulder i see the rest of the squad lagging behind or flanking so far out of range that i cant help them.

[MADsqirrel]

Communication is the key here!
But sadly intersquad communication is hard, especially with the language barrier (some people cant speak english and/or are ashamed of their english)

If everyone would work togehter, even without a commander, you would never have your squads in the middle of nowhere.

But, its a game! You can not force people to do something, you think is right.

So the only real way to get everyone work together is to use the intersquad communication as much as possible. Maybe other, mute squadleaders eventually try to use the squadleader radio, when they see its usefullness.

I try to use intersquad communication allways (i am SL most of the time) and I had a lot of fun games thanks to the communication.

I am not a fan of "ye i think sq 1 is defending lets move out" only to see the loss of the flag because said sq 1 got the same idea without telling anyone.

[Gracler]

I am not a fan of "ye i think sq 1 is defending lets move out" only to see the loss of the flag because said sq 1 got the same idea without telling anyone.

I know its not ideal but if the squad isnt responsive then its the 2nd best choise of action.

[Murphy]

Kashan Desert - Our team is losing South Bunkers, and South Village is under assault from armour and CAS. Squad 6 "Sexeh Fob" squad up in D2 calling for supplies and flaming the team for being upset they are entirely useless. "We killed 2 tanks, a Kiowa, and 2 infantry men". Congrats you killed useless players, the fighting is very easy to pinpoint and anyone who has played more then 2 rounds as SL can easily predict where the enemy are likely to be and by extension how to attack/avoid said enemy positions. Being static for long periods of time on anything but a flag is harming your team, go build and defend that FOB inside/near a Flag radius.

Then Squad 6 decides to flame the entire server (including the admin who was annoyed but not taking any action as ppl are allowed to play however retarded they may be), then continued to ask for CAS and supplies. I remember the SL and a few of those noob squad members, and I can say it's better to have then against you then on your team.

[ShockUnitBlack]

Let's be honest - sometimes there's no reason at all for squads to be where they are lol.

[Rudd]

^ indeed, enemy players not near the flag are usually ignored by me...enemy players in stupid locations or on flags they cannot cap are enemy players that are not hurting my team (exceptions being snipers/HAT/Engineers)