new theme: multiple flags in play per side

[40mmrain]

So, this is quite apparent, but i've yet to see anyone discuss it. A large portion of the new maps have multiple flags in play per side. Ia Drang starts with 4 flags in play, charlie's point has at least 3 once the first flag is captured by americans, goose green has usually 4 at once, falklands itself will have 4 in play near the start of the round, and every single normandy map has some kind of AAS anomaly involved with uncappable flags, attack 2 at once, or all sorts in play at once.

This is very different from conventional PR. PRactically every AAS map, with some small exceptions that didnt come in play, usually, such as pavlovsk's sub bays, had 2 flags in play at once, for the entire round unless someone were to be capped out.

Why has this changed with the newer content? Will PR be taking steps towards all maps being like this? What do the players think?

Overall, I dont like it. I really think that with the server sizes we have teams are overextended, and flags often have no men on them, or are stuck with tiny defending fireteams that can get overrun at the drop of a hat. Players need to be forced onto flags, too many players feel as if they are useful off flags for so many flags in play at once to work.

[Psyrus]

It's how PR used to be back when AASv2 was first released as I recall. Pretty much every map had 2-3 flags in contention at one time. There were a couple of cases of 4 flags (although I struggle to remember which ones). Good examples are the pre-0.85 Qwai river and Mestia.

In all honesty, even though there weren't randomized flags back then, I felt the gameplay was more dynamic.

Having more than just 1 assault and 1 defend flag means that yes, you're potentially much more spread out... but it also gives both your team and the enemy team far more gameplay options. For example:
Should we -

• Throw everyone at a single flag at a time in an effort to steamroll the [hopefully spread-out] defenses
• Try and hunker down on our defense flag(s) and try to bleed them of tickets as they do spread-out attacks
• Devote more players to assault or defense
• Send out small probing forces to see if the enemy aren't defending any one of their flags and cap it from under them as to abate pressure on our current defense flags.
• Consider more carefully where our fobs should be (right on the flags, or spread in a way that is relatively equidistant to the relevant ones)

Basically, I enjoy it more. I also like cap-clusters... like how the old Ejod was, or the original Kashan bunker flags. On thing though, is that back then we never had the cap-loss-ticket-loss mechanic, and flags changed hands more frequently, which would mean that with the new mechanic in place and old gameplay style... rounds would theoretically be over much quicker. That being said, PR's tickets have skyrocketed since 'ze-ol-dayz'

[ShockUnitBlack]

I like it, although I feel it's more conducive to 128+ players than 64.

[PoisonBill]

I like it, although I feel it's more conducive to 128+ players than 64.

This was indeed very lovely on Ia Drang!

[40mmrain]

It's how PR used to be back when AASv2 was first released as I recall. Pretty much every map had 2-3 flags in contention at one time. There were a couple of cases of 4 flags (although I struggle to remember which ones). Good examples are the pre-0.85 Qwai river and Mestia.

In all honesty, even though there weren't randomized flags back then, I felt the gameplay was more dynamic.

Basically, I enjoy it more. I also like cap-clusters... like how the old Ejod was, or the original Kashan bunker flags. On thing though, is that back then we never had the cap-loss-ticket-loss mechanic, and flags changed hands more frequently, which would mean that with the new mechanic in place and old gameplay style... rounds would theoretically be over much quicker. That being said, PR's tickets have skyrocketed since 'ze-ol-dayz'

All it feels like is that things like mortars, and sapping, and other specialized tactics are made to be pointless by so many flags demanding so many men.

[Heavy Death]

I agree. Two flags at max, and even those, only if the mapper diseires to create some kind of a scenario.

[Rhino]

falklands itself will have 4 in play near the start of the round

I'm sorry but 4 flags are never in play at once on the Falklands:
http://realitymodfiles.com/rhino/promo/ ... _aas64.jpg

At the very maximum its defending 2 flags, attacking one flag or defending one flag, attacking two, which you can really brake down into attacking one flag of your choice, then when that one is capped, the team defending the last flag in the last group can move off to attack the other since its no longer in play.


While I'm considering your statement before in another topic about removing Teal Inlet since that flag is kinda pointless, I don't feel that the 3 flags in play is an issue and adds more diversity to this map as well as keeping the historical attack routes which where made in during the Falklands War.

[40mmrain]

sorry, it is 3, my bad.

[VapoMan]

Well I made the flags like that on Ia Drang simply because that's sort of how the battle played out IRL. For the US it wasnt really a battle for the capture of land, it was more about holding ground and killing as many bad guys as possible and NVA just wanted to push the US out of there.

This little animation shows the battle pretty well.
http://www.wtj.com/articles/xray/index_map_01.htm
http://www.wtj.com/articles/xray/index_map_02.htm
http://www.wtj.com/articles/xray/index_map_03.htm

[Wicca]

VapoMan;1848651']Well I made the flags like that on Ia Drang simply because that's sort of how the battle played out IRL. For the US it wasnt really a battle for the capture of land, it was more about holding ground and killing as many bad guys as possible and NVA just wanted to push the US out of there.

This little animation shows the battle pretty well.
Landing Zone X-Ray : November 14, 1965
Landing Zone X-Ray : November 14, 1965
Landing Zone X-Ray : November 15, 1965

That was a pretty neat animation

[Psyrus]

All it feels like is that things like mortars, and sapping, and other specialized tactics are made to be pointless by so many flags demanding so many men.

Music to my ears. The less people we have on sp3c 0ps missions off in the boonies because it's a specialized tactic, the better. Bigger firefights, more teamplay. Mmmmm

[MADsqirrel]

Music to my ears. The less people we have on sp3c 0ps missions off in the boonies because it's a specialized tactic, the better. Bigger firefights, more teamplay. Mmmmm

People will still do their spec of missions because they allways do. I garuntee you that if you have 2 flags to attack and 2 flags to defend + some tanks, cas or mortars, you will have a max of 3 inf squads for 4 flags, most of the time only 2 squads. And those squads will try to sneak up the enemy flag from behind, with the enemy inf squads doing the same. So it will be the same as it is now, only thing is that you never get to move on with capping.

It could work with a Assault gamemode, like normandy currently has, but not with normal AAS.

[Stemplus]

well the way the multiple flag system works right now is only good for inf only maps like Ia Drang or Goose Green. And yes, Ia Drang plays very well because it's a constant firefight (even though it still allows sp3c 0p5 m1ss1on5 to destroy the tunnel fobs/AAA). A lot of people don't like it because they think that after capping all the 3 flags the americans will have to attack the last 2 flags so they attack them and secure them, leaving the last flags abandoned. Well nope.jpg, after you cap those 3 flags you are supposed to DEFEND them. It's not hard to get 3 inf squads to do it, even if all hueys are manned, there is a CAS sq, even a 4 men recon squad. That is all fine. The problem is that that sort of mechanic doesn't work if the defending team still needs to attack another flag, especially on a map with assets. Then it just goes like this:




Note: Scenario from the first picture can happen after scenario from the last picture. Also, on the picture number 5 Delta spawns back on flag A after getting killed by Bravo on flag D.

[Mineral]

I fucked up the GPO of goose green a bit. In the new version there will be at max only 2 flags in play, not 3 like now sometimes.

I think having 2 flags in play is something PR should do more often. It allows for more shifting battles. The minimods show this pretty well. 3 flags is usually a bit much for 64 players, but when 100p comes around we'll be fine on maps as ia drang and falklands. You got to think that 100p will (hopefully) become a big part of 1.0 and the GPO's should hopefully lean towards multiple flags more often on the 128 layers.

[sweedensniiperr]

i'm more annoyed at the whole "yes we finally capped it! - we lost control of X"

[Pronck]

New AAS Type 5: No flags only tickets....gaining tickets with each kill and losing tickets by getting killed (assets destroyed)....

[Mineral]

that's called team deathmatch, and that's why I play AAS and not call of duty

[AFsoccer]

New AAS Type 5: No flags only tickets....gaining tickets with each kill and losing tickets by getting killed (assets destroyed)....

This is basically CnC mode. No flags. You just have to find the enemy FOB while defending your team's FOB (which can be moved as much as you want). More servers should try running this mode. It can be a nice change of pace.

[MADsqirrel]

This is basically CnC mode. No flags. You just have to find the enemy FOB while defending your team's FOB (which can be moved as much as you want). More servers should try running this mode. It can be a nice change of pace.

Sadly nobody wants to give it a try. Yesterday on prta someone (i think it was L4gi) accidently made Kashan CNC, instead of Kashan AAS and everyone cried they dont want to play it. I tryed to talk to them, to give it a try but nobody wanted to.
There was a vote for it to stay or switch to normal Kashan and we had around 30 votes for normal and less then 10 for CNC.

[DDS]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Psyrus;1848657']Music to my ears. The less people we have on sp3c 0ps missions off in the boonies because it's a specialized tactic, the better. Bigger firefights, more teamplay. Mmmmm [/quote]

Not exactly how it plays out in the dozen or so matches I have played. 32 players 4 man and 6 man squads spread out between nearest spawn point to flag. Add your normal 4-5 clueless wanderers, and 2 or 3 still trying to find their way out of the cave spawn point.

[quote="MADsqirrel""]Sadly nobody wants to give it a try. Yesterday on prta someone (i think it was L4gi) accidently made Kashan CNC, instead of Kashan AAS and everyone cried they dont want to play it. I tryed to talk to them, to give it a try but nobody wanted to.
There was a vote for it to stay or switch to normal Kashan and we had around 30 votes for normal and less then 10 for CNC.[/quote]

Agree. CNC is alot of fun but it fell by the wayside. We played a game last week and won in 10 minutes because the other team did not know you have to place a FOB.