nAyo wrote:You're saying that a CAS chopper can be OP if a good crew is manning it. Well what's the purpose of that, anything would be considered as OP if properly manned then, a tank is also overpowered if a very experienced and good crew is operating it?
Good pilots can do well with a chopper, people lacking experience can be killed easy. Isn't that the purpose of the game itself, having more experienced people for all kind of vehicle?
My comparison was of jets and helicopters with BOTH having a good crew. A balanced comparison rather then comparing a super good helicopter crew to a noob jet pilot that flies 10m off the ground.
The crew of any vehicle or asset can be experienced and therefore better and more effective with that asset, but a good helicopter crew can rape much more than a good jet, which is what my reply to L4gi was all about.
While yes, jets can be a *****, it takes much more teamwork for them to operate well. If a jet fly on its own, with no eyes on the ground, he might spot a target. He will then have to circle around going back at it to try and take a shot at it, because of the speed it travels at. A chopper on the other hand can just aim and click in a matter of seconds. As inf I mostly enjoy (believe it or not) getting shot at by jets, because the chances of getting out of it alive is greater then when getting shot at by a chopper. If anything I at least usually live a bit longer, and get to enjoy the fireworks.
Like this video. Watch from 4:00
If that had been a chopper they would all be dead in 20 sec. Here it takes 1 min from the first attack, which was way of, until he comes back at them.
But I am very glad that I'm not the one responsible for finding a fix for this, if there will even be one, as I don't see a easy way of dealing with it.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
-Albert Einstein
What L4gi was saying I think is that a jet, and a lase is almost impossible to kill, even with interlocking AA, if the pilot flies at 800 dropping flares and bombing. Even the best pilots, with the most flares in an attack chopper can be taken out by a hidden AA, and that's all that is needed.
The reason those montages look so OP is:1) No one makes a montage of them dieing... 2) A lot of those clips a little bit of teamwork would have killed or atleast scared the chopper away.
On kashan I rarely see a tank squad running two tanks and an AAV, its always 3 tanks, and off to some corner of the map. Then they die to CAS and grab all the AAVs and die to armour...
everything complained about in this thread reflects the reality of an attack helicopter's power.(minus the flare dive, which honestly all you have to do is spam aa and its a 50/50 shot to shoot the thing down).
chrisweb89 wrote:
On kashan I rarely see a tank squad running two tanks and an AAV, its always 3 tanks, and off to some corner of the map. Then they die to CAS and grab all the AAVs and die to armour...
also this.
Last edited by FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON on 2013-01-31 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
ExeTick wrote:30mm cannon on cas helicopters are weak in my opinion.
if hellfires are going to be nerfed against infantry, that cannon should get a little bit better.
just my opinion
I agree with this.
The point im trying to make is that there are tactics that can be practiced where you are basically unkillable, and one or two helicopters totally decide the game, which make it quite unfun for other players.
Now I still think that Gunships should be very strong, they should be tweaked, nerfed just a little so that theyre not op
Just a bit shorter lock, a better range of motion for static AA and slightly less volume of hellfire missiles would be enough.
Kaland wrote:
If anything is "OP" it's jets, beacuse if you have a good pilot and air superiority a jet is more or less impossible to shoot down while he can drop bombs at you at will.
landing a jet takes longer, bombing requires lazes, and you get less bombs, and missiles at once compared to helicopters. That was the reason I suggested missile reload times. Yes jets are probably even harder to kill from the ground, but their downtime is so significant, and they require lazes (except certain jets which are limited for other reasons), that they are simply dont effect the battle as much
Last edited by 40mmrain on 2013-01-31 22:47, edited 4 times in total.
Then there are realistic tactics that end in death unless you are against an enemy without a brain. Popping up from a hill? HAT or AP round in the face.
Imo, Project Reality is all about OP assets(when used correctly).
It just needs OP counters from infantry:
1. handheld LAT should kill choppers and APC in one shot, if not instantly...make it bleed out in 10s. Giving it 2s aim time is not a bad option either.
2. handheld AA needs to also be OP enough to kill in one shot.
Then it would be balanced because assets are OP but counters are also OP; OP vs OP = balanced.
Or maybe with 128 players implemented; there can be a lot of LAT and AA in squads to make up for lack of effective damage to assets from infantry squad(currently, one LAT is usually not enough to save squad from most APC aside from typical MTLB).
The fact that someone gets raped by an asset doesnt mean the asset is op. It means the guy getting killed is a dumbass. Flare dive? Yes please, have some HAT to the face with that.
They shouldnt make the game easier because people are bad. Its just that more rewarding when you actually have to succeed at something, instead of getting a medal for participation.
L4gi wrote:
They shouldnt make the game easier because people are bad. Its just that more rewarding when you actually have to succeed at something, instead of getting a medal for participation.
nerfing helicopters would make the game harder for you as a regular helicopter pilot, so by your logic you should really encourage these changes
Last edited by 40mmrain on 2013-02-01 01:10, edited 1 time in total.
- Kiowa map if infantry is glitching by Hip firing AA You CANT fly
- Mutrah a Fixed AA covered By a second one or Manpad and you CANT fly
Manpad covering the way back to the deck and you are dead
- All maps people hip firing AA , Proper aa defense is undefeatable AAV covered by a man pad or fixed and the cas is going down.
Now if you dont understand why people dive its easy :
- flares dont work like they are suposed to
- We have no FCS or gyroscopic stabilisation this why we dive so the gunner can fire.
- the view distance is so small if you want realistic flyng give us realistic view distance like below :
You can see they easily take out armor from 2000+ meters and this footage is from the 1st gulf war imagine what they can with hellfire nowadays.
If people want balance because they are killed by an asset designed to kill them they are just stupid even kid can understand this !
Now let my ask for some modification:
- I want the removal of lazer beams on tanks and apcs because no drop on the projectile is bullshit Apc can take down chopper with no compensation for the drop this give to apcs and tank a big edge in Close combat situation with chopers you just have to lead few degres in front of the choppers and they will go down.
-Proper view distance , lock on capabilities on armor
-Fcs and gyroscopic stabilisation
-Gravity for kinetic projectiles
-Proper mechanics for flares
-NO hip fire capabilities for MANPAD
I know that DEVS are working on some of those tweaks and I want to thank to all them for the great work.
But people have no idea how CAS his hard to give you an exemple: muttrah it takes 3 to 4 minute do a cycle ( Dive>RTB>Reload>Take altitude>Ready to dive) each 4 minutes you have a window of 10 second to dump everything you have for this you need a good team and spoters CAS is realy realy dependant of spotter and ground intel because we cannot search for targets because of the viewdistance, if you think cas is raping you kill the MOTHERFUCKER who is lazing you for 1hours Turn on your brain pls !
And if you had bad intel you just waisted 8 to 6 minute for nothing or worst ou dive on a target but theyre is an AA covering the target so you die. Also stop building Fixed on roof top and Hill tops and stop rebuilding the same AA 5 or 6 time its obvious that you are going to die.
Some bonus :
Who said that Choppers cannot diver of do barel roll or backflips ?
And for Chrismas
3m13s
Last edited by [F|H]Zackyx on 2013-02-01 16:42, edited 4 times in total.
'[F|H wrote:Zackyx;1860242']
- I want the removal of lazer beams on tanks and apcs because no drop on the projectile is bullshit Apc can take down chopper with no compensation for the drop this give to apcs and tank a big edge in Close combat situation with chopers you just have to lead few degres in front of the choppers and they will go down.
You were not supposed to go close quarters against apcs and tanks anyway.
hopefully they manage to make it harder to come out of a dive so people stop doing it.
diving with a cas helicopter is something that is most unrealistic with cas helicopters atm.
As Inf I've not really had a problem with enemy CAS chopper. Usually they are busy hunting opposition CAS choppers or tanks etc.
(CAS Hueys aside, these are a nightmare compared to a Cobra or Apache because they are tanks and do attack runs with impunity).
Huey/Havok/Cobra are all 1 shot kills when hit by handheld AA. Can't ask fairer than that.
The real pain is knowing when one respawns. I'm sure in real life soldiers have an egg timer on the battlefield so they know when the enemy CAS duo is due back after their enforced toilet break but nobody bothers in PR, which makes it annoying when you have to tell your guy to get an AA kit again for 'spot defence' (similar to when you hear an enemy tank and tell him to go HAT).
You can't realistically represent Helis in PR, and jets even less so, especially in the A-A modes. Anyone with a semblence of common sense and knowledge realises this. Flying in PR is like flying through soup and the WEZ' reflect this!
