following commander orders

[rodrigoma]

When people lock their squads it's usually because they know they'll do better without smurfs. If a person isn't even competent enough to ask the squad leader to unlock the squad he's definitely not competent enough to play PR.

Can't explain how idiotic this is
I would say it otherwise:

"If a person isn't even competent enough to not lock a squad out of fear that someone might join it he's definitely not competent enough to play PR"

[ghostfool84]

Sometimes people join the Squad, grab a Kit and are gone even before u can say "hi". If they dont grab the sniper or Marksman your LMG is gone or they spawn with it in the middle of nowhere.

People who have some experience in PR will ask to unlock Squads, the problem is noobs will not and that is the problem with closed Squads. New people go without lead or join one of the "kits for free" Squads without a medic or Squadleader.

[Gracler]

Not sure, but it's definitely possible to ask for an invite.

When people lock their squads it's usually because they know they'll do better without smurfs. If a person isn't even competent enough to ask the squad leader to unlock the squad he's definitely not competent enough to play PR.

So what your saying is only clairvoyant people lock there squads?

Sometimes people join the Squad, grab a Kit and are gone even before u can say "hi". If they dont grab the sniper or Marksman your LMG is gone or they spawn with it in the middle of nowhere.

That's the only negative thing I can see about not locking your squad... but there is always one squad (hopefully) that isn't locked that can be exploited so your only moving the problem not solving it.

People who have some experience in PR will ask to unlock Squads, the problem is noobs will not and that is the problem with closed Squads. New people go without lead or join one of the "kits for free" Squads without a medic or Squadleader.

I have a lot of experiences with PR and I never ask for invite to locked squads unless if I already know the person, because for me it's just a big sign saying "YOUR NOT WELCOME HERE" so I join the unlocked squads, create my own or go commander and do some UAV'ing for the team, and help coordinate if necessary. I only lock my own squad if It makes sence, like if there is only 1 asset that the squad is assigned to and it doesn't require 6 people. I never lock infantry squads. Sniper locked squads are a waste of squad slot since they could just lead either CAS or armor and have a medic with them so they don't need to lock that squad either.

Can't explain how idiotic this is
I would say it otherwise:

"If a person isn't even competent enough to not lock a squad out of fear that someone might join it he's definitely not competent enough to play PR"

Agree completely with this. Some people needs to step out of there glass jar and away from there comfort zones some more to really experience what PR is all about, instead of only looking at the scoreboard between rounds.



There is only 1 thing that bothers me more than locked squads though, and that is when a squad is supposedly unlocked, and you join only to get kicked for no reason because he was waiting for his friend. Is it that hard to lock the squad and invite the person, or at least say a quick.... sorry this spot is reserved for a friend.... or whatever.

A locked squad is a squad that doesn't want or need more random people to join and hardly a plz join us if your pro sign. Your not pro just because you can type... Please invite me to your squad

[saXoni]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]rodrigoma;1864227']Can't explain how idiotic this is
I would say it otherwise:

"If a person isn't even competent enough to not lock a squad out of fear that someone might join it he's definitely not competent enough to play PR"[/quote]

I am locking my squad because I know the majority of the players on my team will ruin my round if I let them in my squad, and I'm still more than capable enough to play PR.


[quote="Gracler""]So what your saying is only clairvoyant people lock there squads? [/quote]

As far as I know I'm not clairvoyant and I lock my squad.

Some people needs to step out of there glass jar and away from there comfort zones some more to really experience what PR is all about, instead of only looking at the scoreboard between rounds.

I've played PR for 3-4 years and I know exactly what PR is about, so don't feed me with that kind of bullshit. I've seen what PR has become, and what kind of players that have come to this mod, thus I lock the squad to avoid them.
Why would I let inexperienced players in my squad only to annoy me and ruin the round for me when I can simply click a button to prevent that from happening?

[Jolly]

Sax, clam down.
I agree with most of your points coz I have seem enough of it.
Lock the squad? I've always doing that. Usually I play PR with certain people.

Indeed, some ppl should really not go commader, they wont be helpful, except cause tons of insults or quarrels.
Commander is a role to help SQL to coorperate, give UAV and mark support.
Good commander give advices rather than orders. (Spoter commander or coordinate commander.)

But I will shout to those noooobs SQL, when they stick with a Sniper(Marksman) with a full squad spread around the map, When I am doing the commander.

[Heavy Death]

Sometimes people join the Squad, grab a Kit and are gone even before u can say "hi". If they dont grab the sniper or Marksman your LMG is gone or they spawn with it in the middle of nowhere.

> Admin
> Ban right away
> Getting rid of those scumbags one by one
> ????
> PROFIT!

I've played PR for 3-4 years and I know exactly what PR is about, so don't feed me with that kind of bullshit. I've seen what PR has become, and what kind of players that have come to this mod, thus I lock the squad to avoid them.
Why would I let inexperienced players in my squad only to annoy me and ruin the round for me when I can simply click a button to prevent that from happening?

Guy has a point.
It would be actually cool to set up locked squads and then "allow/handpick" people in... prevents some of the retardation.

[ghostfool84]

> Admin
> Ban right away
> Getting rid of those scumbags one by one
> ????
> PROFIT!

Yeah that ******* is banned.. and now my LMG Kit or HAT Kit appears where i need it? That doesnt solve the problem. There should be a timer about 10 seconds before you can take a kit from a Squad to prevent this.

[Gracler]

I've played PR for 3-4 years and I know exactly what PR is about, so don't feed me with that kind of bullshit. I've seen what PR has become, and what kind of players that have come to this mod, thus I lock the squad to avoid them.

Thats where I'm talking about the glass jar effect.... the player-base is the same its only because you have experiences now and see when ever someone makes a mistake that you think the quality is getting lower... the only thing that is getting lower is the overall player-base really and the gap between experienced and in-experienced players, in the beginning we didn't have this conversation as everyone was learning.

Why would I let inexperienced players in my squad only to annoy me and ruin the round for me when I can simply click a button to prevent that from happening?

that's exactly the kind of attitude that a niche mod with a low player base needs... sense the irony?

[|pr|kruemeltee]

that's exactly the kind of attitude that a niche mod with a low player base needs... sense the irony?

There are people who like to teach and people who don't.

It may sound silly and even a bit selfish but do i play a game for teaching people how it works? No, i play it for me. Gving a tip or a short instruction? No problem. But I personally dont feel like 'Mister Tutorial'. I dont want to spend half of my round teaching the new one.
There are many people on the other hand who do just that: Teaching. And thats fine.

Back to the actual topic: I agree that the commander can be important, especially in coordinating attacking and defending forces, giving CAS targets or help guiding infantry via UAV. Like some people said earlier, the commander post is more of an advisor to me than an actual commander. Situations where you have a good, forword looking commander (at least on public servers) are rare.

[UTurista]

Commander is a role to help SQL to coorperate, give UAV and mark support.
Good commander give advices rather than orders. (Spoter commander or coordinate commander.)

+1

With the introduction of mumble, Sq. leaders can discuss tactics or plans without the use of a commander and it's more efficient this way 'cause there's no waste time by using the chain of command, and the eyes on the ground are much more efficient then a guy who's in main hearing the coms.

And if you're thinking that the UAV is better the those eyes on ground you're wrong cause in the present version the UAV is broken leading you to see enemy tanks, Fobs and full squads disappearing mid-air, so its not trustful enough to guide your team.

Without the clear job of commanding the team, commanders can only:
> Slightly improve squads communications by "sharing" the same maker
> Spot for CAS
> Build Fobs
> Use the yellow letters to guide those lonely-noobs scattered around the map
> Suggest tactics
> And... helping the trans by placing the LZ markers (again almost the same as the 1st)

[Gracler]

+1

With the introduction of mumble, Sq. leaders can discuss tactics or plans without the use of a commander and it's more efficient this way 'cause there's no waste time by using the chain of command, and the eyes on the ground are much more efficient then a guy who's in main hearing the coms.

And if you're thinking that the UAV is better the those eyes on ground you're wrong cause in the present version the UAV is broken leading you to see enemy tanks, Fobs and full squads disappearing mid-air, so its not trustful enough to guide your team.

Without the clear job of commanding the team, commanders can only:
> Slightly improve squads communications by "sharing" the same maker
> Spot for CAS
> Build Fobs
> Use the yellow letters to guide those lonely-noobs scattered around the map
> Suggest tactics
> And... helping the trans by placing the LZ markers (again almost the same as the 1st)

The UAV has some issues right now... but I have gotten used to it now and since i'm aware that there is an X-files phenomena that is circling around the UAV I use it as a factor of unreliable Intel. A picture is after-all telling a thousand words, you just has to be aware that its not always telling the truth... but how often didn't you receive wrong Intel from a squad-leader.... they will report enemy's vehicles through sound-bugs as-well or give wrong grids, or even report friendly's as enemy's.

Also when you have the commander overview you can quickly get an overview of where all the different kits are located.... you got the health status of all soldiers and vehicles which is very useful and gives you the situation awareness that you don't have from being on the surface. For example if a squad is loosing a lot of health i'm not going to disturb the squad-leader and tell them to go build a fob 1000m west. He has to focus on staying alive.

Your not being shot at so you can calmly get the overview and plan ahead and see if a squad should change there approach.

When the Uav is "refueling" I normally take a trip to the front-line with a logitruck and drop supply's and see what the situation is on the ground, then I return to the UAV trailer when its ready again. If possible ill setup a commander spawn-point and stay until its overrun or a firebase is established.

I rarely go commander from the very beginning but I do it if I join in the middle of a round and there isn't any squads that I want to join, and for the same reason i'm not trying to order everyone to do what I want them to do... but let them continue what they wanna do and just help out where needed, and suggest what to do.

[Gracler]

1 more thing...

Even when a commander is present I don't think he should try to micro-manage for example 2-3 squads attacking a village. I'd suggest those 2-3 squads to work together and from there on they will talk directly to each-other with squad-chat or local speech. A 3rd wheel will just make things more complicated and those squads know the situation better in close quarters.

The commander however should tell the last squad on a flag to Defend if they are wandering off, or figure out how to relieve the last defending squad.

ok that was 2 more things

[Cassius]

question: making a rule where sqd. leads need to follow commander order or face admin actions (force resign, w/k)....would you consider that to be to much interference?

my apologies if this was already discussed in some other threads. just wondering what the thoughts would be

I can see how that can be very hard to admin and a lot of backlash would be expected, but would it make game play more better, more realistic, more enjoyable?

I wouldnt. Sure, sometimes you are stuck with an order that is clearly asinine, but a noob commander makes mistakes too and needs to learn.

And if it isnt a noob commander, talk to him, use the radio a lot to mark enemies. Tell him when you are in a firefight, else he tells you to go someplace, while you are being shot at.

[L4gi]

Commander is there to command, not suggest or just relay intel. Sure you do better with a CO that relays info or tries to get people to work together than without a commander.

Only reason people say the CO should only do this or that, and shouldnt be like that have never experienced a real CO.

When I CO(not as much as I used to) I tell people exactly what I need them to do. I dont micromanage the shit out of them because thats the SLs job. I tell them what to do, not how. If they fail like noobs, I tell them how to do it aswell.

Ive commanded so many battles, ranging from pub rounds to tournaments to clan matches/community matches. Ive seen and tried a lot of things as CO. People saying a CO shouldnt tell people what to do dont know shit about the game. Dont get mad cause you think you know but actually you dont.

[Gracler]

I appreciate when there is a commander that commands squads to do stuff, personally I think it's just a loosing battle if your not an admin or have an admin to help you out though. on public servers. That's why the carrot way is easier to use.
If someone wants to take full control as commander ill happily resign and let him do that job, I just don't have enough patience and force to back it up with. It's boring enough to sit in the UAV trailer, but if you have to start yelling in your mic to get results it just gets really depressing. Some people don't mind yelling, but I got better things to do with my free time than ***** about a game i'm playing, and remove the freedom from other players.

You might easily get control of some of the squads....but there will always be 2 or 3 squads that needs a slap in the face to change there mind.

[Heavy Death]

Yeah that ******* is banned.. and now my LMG Kit or HAT Kit appears where i need it? That doesnt solve the problem. There should be a timer about 10 seconds before you can take a kit from a Squad to prevent this.

You have lost a life. In a round. In a gaming session. That is a very small problem and that ******* being gone FOREVER outweighs it by about 1000 times.

[Tit4Tat]

SL's 1st priority is his squad, that's a fact....CO's priority is the whole team, that's fact. I hope you can read between the lines.

[Portable.Cougar]

Commander is there to command, not suggest or just relay intel. Sure you do better with a CO that relays info or tries to get people to work together than without a commander.

Only reason people say the CO should only do this or that, and shouldnt be like that have never experienced a real CO.

When I CO(not as much as I used to) I tell people exactly what I need them to do. I dont micromanage the shit out of them because thats the SLs job. I tell them what to do, not how. If they fail like noobs, I tell them how to do it aswell.

Ive commanded so many battles, ranging from pub rounds to tournaments to clan matches/community matches. Ive seen and tried a lot of things as CO. People saying a CO shouldnt tell people what to do dont know shit about the game. Dont get mad cause you think you know but actually you dont.

Here here.

Some of these threads are getting ridiculous. How can there be so much push back from the community based around a game based on teamwork.

[A.Wickens]

Having a good CO is spectacular, immersive and fully realises the potential of true teamwork. Having played regularly under AF Soccer in both public games and highly competitive scrims and had a few games under Jafar I am sure at some point, along with many others, I can say that it makes my job as SL easier. I know we have a plan, rather than some paint by numbers, half assed, mumble conglomerate hive mind rubbish.

A singular mind directing traffic maximises the potential of each squad, if the CO is half decent, as it allows each SL to focus on their respective task and gets them away from the 'big game planning' that I have seen distract SL's from actually doing the basics correctly. Sure some of them can run moderately effective squads based off both their own talents and those of their squad mates, but often the quality of opposition plays a part in their success. If you have 6 PR vets up against a less skilled group, they are generally going to roll them whatever the plan is. I have no interest in that.

Nope, for me PR only reaches it true potential when each individual focuses on their job, whether it is an SM covering their sector, an SL executing his orders well or the CO orchestrating the whole thing.

The only way to demonstrate the value of the CO slot is to show people. To show people you have to make it sustainable. To do that you need a server rule that enforces CO rule and deals with those who abuse the position.

The bottom line is, CO can be ineffective, but it's entirely the playerbase's fault, not the game.

[SGT.Ice]

Back when 4SFG ran that rule it seemed to work out pretty well.

The overall problem is a rule isn't going to fix it. Most SL's don't communicate with the commander or care to for various reasons.

As it's always brought up the SL's can now communicate via mumble, which often renders the role of a commander useless more or less due to that. The commander's really just another pair of eyes & in ~90% of the populations mind just a tool for dropping Jdams nothing more. Or the commander gets cussed out for various reasons/threatened.

On an ending note, while people bring up the point SL's can communicate, it's mostly bickering or to just yell at each other. Nothing else really happens in the overall spectrum of things in pubs.