Damn those Flyboys!! Need an AA with some TEETH!

hydrofed · Post by **hydrofed** » 2006-10-17 14:20

I know This has been mentioned, but I'll whine about it again. Can the AA missiles be made to hone in on a jet with a little more accuracy and/or be made a tad bit more powerful?

I know in vBF2 that is was essentially impossible to take out a jet with an AA missile. I certainly hit a jet or two, but the damage was always laughable. They'd smoke a bit, turn around, and promptly drop a bomb on my head.

In the "real world", if a jet got slightly tagged by an AA missile, it'd be toast.

The problem here is that a good Jet pilot will dominate the field, and the AA vehicle usually doesn't stand a chance. As for game play, most things in BF2 have a rock-paper-scissors balance...not so with the Jets (unless of course your team fortuitously has a good pilot, which in my experience has been rare)

Suggestion: one slow mobile vehicle (with long re-spawn time) with some serious AA teeth (e.g., one shot-one-kill). The fixed AA at flags can be the usual useless fixture, but supply at least one weapon that will make the jets think twice about invading friendly air space.

Thanks for your time...

hydrofed

TheCaptn · Post by **TheCaptn** » 2006-10-17 15:10

Fixed AA no longer has a target indicator in the cockpit HUD, and mobile AA can rip up a jet with missiles if gets a clean lock without flares. The missiles themselves already track much better than in vanilla, and require hard manuvering combined with flares to defeat.

Having said that, most pilots will make AA a priority target over and above everything else for exactly those reasons. If I know there's some around I'll always try and get someone to spot it for me so I can nail it before it sees me, either by flying high and making a steep bombing dive on it or by flying low and drilling it with cannon fire.
I disagree with you about the effectiveness of missiles now, but I think you can make a case for bumping up the armor on those things. All they take to destroy is one good pass with a cannon or a hit/fairly near miss with a bomb, which does make me feel a little guilty sometimes.

On the other hand very few people seem to put any thought into how they're using the mobile AA... They're not armor that you just drive out onto the battlefield alone with, and frankly anyone who plays them that way deserves to get bombed repeatedly.
You need to find ambush spots that aren't so exposed. These will change depending on the current flags, and you should think about where the enemy air traffic will be thickest. And small fields of fire aren't always a bad thing because they mean you're protected yourself, and there's less sky you have to observe. Being able to view 360 degrees around you isn't always desirable... As you move from one location to another that's when you're most exposed, and it pays to move from cover to cover (in quiet moments) just like you would if you were infantry.
Finally, if you -are- going out into the field, don't go on your own. If you're in a small group with say two tanks and an APC that gives us pilots a 75% chance of shooting at the wrong target. We're moving fast and probably coming out of a turn. Even if you've been spotted by one of our teammates that only gives us a general heading, it can't help us identify which vehicle in a loose cluster you actually are.
Try to stay close enough to other vehicles that's you'll be part of the clutter, but far apart enough that you won't all be destroyed by a single bombing run.

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2006-10-17 15:22

aa needs a re-think but lets see what the DEV's have in store in .4 as they promised changes.

Post by **eggman** » 2006-10-17 15:32

there's an AA Rifleman class coming, as well as some changes to AA weapons and aircraft.

I don't think we'll get it "just right" with v0.4, but I think it will be a lot better and we can tweak it into the "just right" zone with subsequent releases.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2006-10-17 20:19

hydrofed wrote:I know This has been mentioned, but I'll whine about it again. Can the AA missiles be made to hone in on a jet with a little more accuracy and/or be made a tad bit more powerful?

How much more powerful you want the AA missiles to be buddy? they already destroy planes with one missiles, you want them to be small tactical nukes?

As Captn said, AAVs are the most dangerous thing to a pilot, especially the F'in Tunguska with its laser beams of death will rip any plane apart in a matter of seconds.

The AA missiles are already omega accurate, its just people expect this.

Hop into AA site
Find plane and lock on to it
Immediatly hit the plane

Thats not how it works buddy, it takes skill to be effective, like everything else in the game.

'hydrofed' wrote: In the "real world", if a jet got slightly tagged by an AA missile, it'd be toast.

Either you are tagged or not there is no "I got a 50% lock on", and no, planes would not be toast, remember there is a MISS in missiles, they don't always hit their targets and pilots with enough training can evade them, its not a sure thing kill as soon as the missile is launched.

As I said the AA in the game is already good enough, and I think planes and helicopters are going to have a helluva hard time staying airborne with the AA kit roaming around, camping the airfield.

So to sum things up, thanks for your complaint and as the guys before me have said wait for PR.4

V3N0N_br · Post by **V3N0N_br** » 2006-10-17 20:24

At least for me the Anti-airs are ok. It's not so easy to use them (correctly), but it's very hard to escape them... And I mean, both mobile and stationary AAs

Guerra norte · Post by **Guerra norte** » 2006-10-17 20:33

Acually i can shoot down a plane ten times quicker with a tank rather than a AA.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-10-17 20:40

Anti Air seems okay, I think its the jets that are the problem.

They act extremely unrealistic as of right now. Most pilots use 'strafing runs' with their cannons to hit armored targets, and often fly within 30 feet of the ground target as they pass over head. This looks ABSOLUTELY ridiculous and is a HUGE immersion killer for me and anyone else who has ever seen a military aircraft engage a target.

My opinion is to remove the planes or find a solution to these unrealistic scenarios...

The A-10 would be one of the few aircraft to make strafing runs, but they would never fly as low as the pilots do currently in PR.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2006-10-17 20:53

'[R-CON wrote:fuzzhead']Anti Air seems okay, I think its the jets that are the problem.

They act extremely unrealistic as of right now. Most pilots use 'strafing runs' with their cannons to hit armored targets, and often fly within 30 feet of the ground target as they pass over head. This looks ABSOLUTELY ridiculous and is a HUGE immersion killer for me and anyone else who has ever seen a military aircraft engage a target.

My opinion is to remove the planes or find a solution to these unrealistic scenarios...

The A-10 would be one of the few aircraft to make strafing runs, but they would never fly as low as the pilots do currently in PR.

I agree with you that the dive bombing people are doing isn't completly realistic, but planes don't really have anything close to a realistic loadout.

Currently, the planes in PR have two means of attacking ground targets, its dumb bombs and its guns.

Experienced BF2 players know that the best accuracy with a dumb bomb comes from dive bombing, and in PR it can be kinda annoying landing to re-arm after dropping just two bombs.

Take me for example, I save my bombs for tanks, but for everything else I use my guns. I use them because its the only other weapon I have.

Its simple to remedy this problem, introduce more air-to-ground munitions for aircraft. If PR still wishes to include dumb dumbs then I would suggest accurately making the bomb sites so that it is like its real life counter-part.

As for the A-10, they do fly extremely low to ground sometimes when they attack their targets.

Video

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2006-10-17 21:32

the AA misil desbiation without flares need to be fixed

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-10-17 22:20

As if the planes arn't nerfed enough. They have to land to re-arm and the "Lazer Beams of death" will shread anything in the air. If anything, the planes should be beefed up a little.

hydrofed · Post by **hydrofed** » 2006-10-18 01:19

Good feedback...thanks! Thanks to TheCaptn for the strat lesson. I guess I need to get out there more with an AA vehicle. I'm new to PR, so my one experience thus far with AA was very similar to vBF2, so perhaps I jumped the gun (no pun) on my comment.

I'd like to say to the developers that they've done a great job! I'm very impressed with this mod and am having a great time playing it. When I land in a squad with a good SL like fuzzhead, the gameplay rocks!

Cheers!

hydrofed

Herb-in-Fighter · Post by **Herb-in-Fighter** » 2006-10-18 01:50

I'd give my right leg to own a A-10 with a working cannon.

FTW!

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-10-18 01:58

But then you wouldn't be able to fly it.

mdterp1987 · Post by **mdterp1987** » 2006-10-18 03:01

It seems Resjah's idea of alternative munitions would work best.

In order to fix the dive bombing, could there be two possible changes? First, change the dynamics of the dumb bombs so that they aren't the most accurate when being dropped from a dive. Second, make it tougher for a plane to pull up so that they won't be able to hug the ground so well.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-10-18 06:44

agreed md

nice vid there resjah

PR pilots fly within 10 feet of a tank (including yourself), Ive yet to see real life aircraft do that heheh

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-10-18 07:29

Would be great to see hand held AA missiles in .4. This would be more of a challenge to the pilots, since they would not know where the treath is comming from. As it is now, the pilots already know where the fixed AA sites are, and gun straight for them at the opening of the map. This is of course the way it should be and is in real life, since the first thing to be hit in a ground campain would be SAM sites and general AA threats.

I PERSONALLY think that the maps are to small in BF2 to even CONSIDER having jets... A jet would be called upon by the groundforces to execute an airstrike, and move in high and fast from far away, then to "get the hell out of dodge".. But that`s just my opinion...

TJ

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2006-10-18 10:57

i agree with u TJ, bf system is not cut out for any sort of jets or long range combat.

id rather see commader ability of calling in a NPC air strike.

R@ge · Post by **R@ge** » 2006-10-18 11:29

'[5NFSO wrote:Thunder']
id rather see commader ability of calling in a NPC air strike.

That would be awesome..

or maybye not...

TheCaptn · Post by **TheCaptn** » 2006-10-18 12:25

Let me tell you about my little daydream in this regard... It involves arming the jets with four bombs which can be dropped individually, but have a delay fuse on them to prevent them from exploding within two or three seconds of their release. These bombs would, to a limited degree, track their way toward the nearest location designated by a special forces operator with his binoculars. Obviously the higher up they're dropped the more time they'd have to do so.
To balance out the potential power of this system, in my daydream I would remove the ground vehicle markers entirely and replace them with markers for the special forces designated targets only (a target would not have to be a vehicle, they could just as easily be enemy infantry where the designated point is just a spot on the ground). When used in this way the pilot would get points for the kill and the special forces operator would get equivalent team points.

So in my daydream, when I fly without any supporting infantry I get completely ripped up by enemy AA. Even though I can drop two sets of flares before they reload it's often not enough to get me safely back to base... But when I team up with a good special forces partner who's hidden behind the enemy lines, I can tear up the battlefield and he shares the reward.

Damn those Flyboys!! Need an AA with some TEETH!

Damn those Flyboys!! Need an AA with some TEETH!

Thanks for the AA feedback