[1.0] Anti-Aircraft Changes

[WeeD-KilleR]

Weed, the AA gets lased when it gets placed on a hilltop. You dont place AA on a hilltop - problem solved

Yea, what a usefull comment you brought up here. <irony>Thanks for explaining the game to me, I am fairly new... </irony> Maybe you start writing some arguements instead of shitposting? Thanks.

what part of that is luck

Yes, because it's so pleasant to do 360 degrees turns for 15 minutes in your AAV. (Without a macro that does this for you.) And still it's luck based. Sure, you can predict where it's generally coming from, yet you don't know for sure. If an AA missle will hit is mostly based on the angle between the CAS and your AA and the angle between the flares and your AA. A good pilot will make sure to get the flares between you and him.
Even if you catch him flying frontal towards you and he is popping flares there is a good chance of missing him. Same goes for him flying away.

The current system is just too unpredictable, therefor luckbased. Here a small video of the super system we have in PR:

YouTube

Diving isn't a sure thing. [...]

Should have specified this a bit more. Was talking about the straight down dives done by attack helicopters. (Famous cobra dives on Muttrah). The simple fact that the flares drop faster then the chopper does makes it hard to kill the cobra, even when you have 2 or 3 overlapping AA positions.

A handheld HAT is a greater threat to a attack choper than a handheld AA (not included the stinger bug). And that's something that's wrong in the game mechanics.

@chrisweb I forgot to multiquote your post. Not that fancy for you:

I give you right with the viewdistance and that sometimes you can lock onto the CAS. I guess we have to separte a bit more, I was talking about CAS but yea, there is quite a difference between Jets and Attack Choppers. I kinda think that Jets requiere more ground to air teamwork (forces on the ground needs to report intel to the Jets), Attack Choppers doesn't need it as much.

Jets usally don't engage without lasers, so I am not gonna talk about that scenario. I'll focus about attack choppers. Saying you can lock on a attack chopper out of viewdistance doesn't automaticly mean you lock onto him instantly. Spotting him and locking him does take some time and he COULD (doesn't need to) be in viewdistance by now so the gunner could have a chance on getting you.

I dislike luckbased system (that's why I also dislike the current deviation system). I liked to see a more skill-based alternative, to the AA and to the CAS.

[chrisweb89]

We're talking about AAVs and emplacements about the lock time right? They barely take any time to lock, sometimes I accidentally lock when scanning. Choppers can hunt by themselves like you said, but not against a good team. A lone wolf chopper against even a single unspotted AA emplacement will at the least be scared away, and possibly killed.

Just as an example on kashan sometimes I will go to center hill with 1 tank, a few inf and an AAV. Aslong as you keep the AAV in the low ground where only a close inf or UAV can lase it enemy CAS will either leave you alone, or most likely die trying to take you on. I have done this on rounds where our CAS was constantly dead and enemy CAS was up and we never lost our position. If there was combined push it wouldn't have been that difficult to push us off but CAS alone couldn't and they didn't even kill a tank, only our AAV once on a mutual kill.

[WeeD-KilleR]

The lock time sometimes is enough to get you killed. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that AAs are too underpowered. I just want to see a better system with a small buff for AAs. I am playing for years too and I can also tell stories about me sitting in AAs. Once I was able to take out huey after huey on Muttrah, as MEC sitting in a strella. Even when they popped flares, even whille they were low deep in the city. But I can also report situation where a havoc came straight towards me and I just couldn't take him out. Even on shots where you would think: "Hey how can that rocket miss?"

I just like to see those situations decreased.

[gipakok]

looks like sombody need a reality check , how can a solo hat in the middle of no where (well on iron eagle ) can be spotted , and let me tell you something , if somebody do spot him , its about 99.99% that he wont even bothering himself by reporting it on the chat , and no i allways look for intel about armor , but i dont consider HAT as Anti-Air , no body does so if you dont have anything smart to say shut it please

Thats what happens when you drive into nowhere instead of helping the team. As a tank you are supposed to support the infantry squads in PR so they can help you as well.

[Mineral]

another example for a guy that never played any asset and talks about it like actually used it even one time properly

can you step of your throne for just a second and talk like a regular guy for once? If you really want to assist on improving this game by making solid suggestions and discussions then I suggest you start improving your communication skills and start making your posts about the initial problem. It hurts my brain reading the stuff your write as I know what kind of player you are.

Anyway, once again I made the mistake of opening threads about asset balancing in PR. It's such a horrible place .

[cro-wd40]

Its not as hard as people think. Once you use the HAT kit a lot and know how it handles, its doable. Its not easy, but its not super difficult either. A lot of it depends on "how" the pilot flies at full speed. If he flies straight for a certain distance, you can lead the shot. Going horizontally from the shooter is the easiest.

not only that but 90% of the time CAS helis attack from same position and retreat in the same direction after a dive, shooting them down then is not that hard.


Removing HAT's would allow apc to make CAS helis life even more difficult .


I think that all these problems arise from lack of communication between squads. Splitting AT's and AA's from regular infantry and calling them in when required would be more realistic and beneficial to inf squad because they would have 1 more solder that is better equipped for inf vs inf.

Should the need arise that inf squad's SL should call in the AT or AA that are waiting somewhere out of harms way, or defending flags. That way you dont loose expensive kits on the front lines, and they are still effective when required.



Same goes for CAS , if you dont want to get shot down wait for targets from inf, check and double check that the area is clear of AA. If inf squads are not reporting in stuff on their own, ask them over mumble, eventually they will get used to reporting in stuff to CAS. And in the end dont hover when youre bored, its better to leave the chopper in main base then to hover.

[chrisweb89]

Weed I know what you mean about the luck factor, I just don't really see a solution with my very limited knowledge of the BF2 engine. I also find though that the luck effects both sides, that just sa many shots that should hit miss, there are also shots that you can just fire into flares on a pilot that is doing all the right things and still get the kill. But if you have a idea on how to make AA, and attacking AA more about skill I would be up for it.

Crazy, why do you keep saying that people don't use assets so their opinion is invalid. The writing of gipakok's that you quoted is dead on, so even as a player who hasn't touched a crewman or pilot kit he still makes a very valid point. Tanks, or anything that go off around the map are easy to kill, I don't get why people don't just roll up front armour to the enemy take hit, fall back and repair and repeat (the taking a hit part isn't required), then you can usually guess without intel where the HATs will be because they usually pick the same hills, or stick to the flags.

Choppers are meant to die to AAVs, what is your point?

[40mmrain]

I think next patch with 100 players servers, the perception of heavy CAS vehicles being OP will decrease. Also, I do believe the strela will be brought up to par with the stinger, which will ease that as well.

On Kashan desert, and black gold perhaps the two maps where CAS dominate the most, both sides have a lot of AAVs, and very good ones at that. Both sides also have the ability to build two emplacements, and posses two AA kits. However, it is rare that all these assets are deployed, simply due to the fact that there needs to be men tanking, flying trans, operating mortars, and rifles on the ground moving onto flags, etc. With 18 more people per side, and no inflation of CAS vehicles per side, more AA assets will be manned, and CAS's already appropriate counters will be used more.

Further still the ASMs all CAS helicopters employ have been nerfed, so to speak, for next patch, so simply splashing AA will not work, and the less practiced, and calculated runs on enemy FOB positions and armour positions will be fatal.

Strela up to par with stinger + big servers + nerfed ASMs means harder times for CAS, no further action would be required. Tweaking the helicopter physics, and lengthening reload times for helicopters could be other options for the devs to consider, but no gross nerfs for either side are required.