Bullet Damage to Players and Kevlar

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Thats your perception of it and not exactly what I said. I was saying to make body armor function more realistically and be simulated the best it can with engine limitations. What I posted was just a well thought out idea on the matter.

I also said there could be some other balance tweaks like tickets etc to make up for it.

Yeah but that would make them way too powerfull, the BF2 Engine can't simulate the fact that being hit by an AK-47's round is still an intense power and would knock you back, stun you, etc.

[ExNusquam]

Sharps, you're forgetting the golden rule of the PR devs.

Gameplay>Realism

Making it harder to kill BLU would only unbalance insurgency even more.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Yeah but that would make them way too powerfull, the BF2 Engine can't simulate the fact that being hit by an AK-47's round is still an intense power and would knock you back, stun you, etc.

False. You won't even think you got shot if someone fires a 7.62x51 at point blank, it feels like an average punch. Couple of posts earlier i said it would break a lot of bones and stuff, disregard that, in this video you can tell that you can just keep on fighitng as if nothing happened.

[Murphy]

Sometimes gameplay trumps reality, and this should be another case of that situation in my eyes. Changing the dynamics of a firefight between insurgents and blufor will further complicate the already tedious job of balancing INS game-mode.

[Mineral]

Go play paintball In the meantime I will have fun and relatively balanced games between insurgent and blufor. Its a game. And I wouldn't want to be an insurgent knowing that I would have to play twice as good to kill that other guy. Its project reality cause it tries make a fps video game more realistic while keeping the fun factor. Blufor whoring doesn't belong in that fun factor. I'm quite tired of these types of discussions.

[PoisonBill]

I have always thought something about insurgent teams, wouldn't 40 vs 24 be something to try out with an upping of blufor body hp? I'm thinking about a test (if it hasn't been done yet), not a standard for PR servers.

[K4on]

If you play as U.S. Inf in Kevlar and you get shot, the damage effect is the same as if you are a insurgent wearing just a t-shirt and pants (as far as I can tell).

This is not the case, atleast from my PR experience.

Just try it out. Best example is a (bluefor) sniperkit of your choice:

1. Shoot an insurgent in the stomach on 200m
2. Now do the same with a Blueforsoldier, RUS/GER/IDF/US/CAN/ ect.
3. Tell me what you experienced

[Conman51]

a mod called "Project Reality"... not "Project Gameplay".

I HATE this "argument".

You want to get rid of re spawns too? Thats realistic. This China Vs Russia map? Get rid of it, not real enough. And OMG!? China Vs US? Thats not happening in real life. Get rid of it!

Its a misnomer. if you knew where the name Project Reality came from you would know it was just supposed to be a temp name until something better was though of. Nothing better was though of because PR is unique in what it does, you cant just name it on the type of game it is.

Would if be much better if the mod was called "Project Gameplay with some realistic elements" ?

If you want reality go join the military.


On topic: i would like to see bullets do slightly more damage in general, to all players, armor on not.

[Tarranauha200]

Yeah, lets give every faction same vehicles and weapons to balance them.

Oh wait...

[Henrique_Dalben]

This is not the case, atleast from my PR experience.

Just try it out. Best example is a (bluefor) sniperkit of your choice:

1. Shoot an insurgent in the stomach on 200m
2. Now do the same with a Blueforsoldier, RUS/GER/IDF/US/CAN/ ect.
3. Tell me what you experienced

I experienced that the same 7.62x51 fired from G3, when fired from sniper kits, deals more damage, normally killing in a single center mass hit. It's impossible to compare the GER/BAF/CAN sniper rifles with the others. As .338 Lapua = .50 cal without AM capabilities.

[ComradeHX]

If we want balance; we could have anyone without body armor have significantly longer sprint bar(or speed) than those with body armor.

Asymmetrical balance, maybe?

[Lange]

Many of you freak out like even discussing this is a world ending thing and just has no chance of working or has no validity to the point. If something was to be adjusted with how body armor works in PR it does not mean instantly that their is unbalance. Ever think it could actually add to the gameplay on both sides?

I can think of a few balance things right off the top of my head and still have more realistic body armor mechanics in PR.

1. Less tickets on insurgency and more tickets for deaths

2. Could also benefit the opfor faction with maybe slightly different health mechanics with flak jackets.

3. Slower sprint than unarmored or less armored soldiers like ComradeHX mentioned and this is realistic because in real life with all the gear I don't see blu for soldiers sprinting like a track athlete.

4. As also suggested different mechanics like screen flashing black when hit etc so if someone has the drop on you you can't effectively return fire as well as they can.

Whos to say this has to be a major change either, it could just be a few fairly minor things. And whos to say this is even truely considered for a change. Right now its just a discussion in the feedback forum.

Also as many in this thread have seemed to narrow it down to just automatically messing up insurgency, who also said that this idea is limited to just insurgency. What about blu for vs blu for where it will be the same anyway? Lets all just calm down and not act like its a tabooed discussion. Thinking about improving realism with body armor in game is not a crisis, maybe even think it could actually be beneficial to the gameplay.

I have a few more elaborate ideas to this I will post soon seeing what many people said.

[Lange]

Not to double post, but I have revised my idea more based on suggestions and my own thinking for revised bullet damage for both flak jackets and kevlar body armor for bullet damages and screen affects.:

Blu For Kevlar dmg and affects per amount of rounds taken(chest area or vest):

5.56 caliber

1 5.56 rounds no bleeding affect screen flashes black briefly to simulate being hit by a round and unable to effectively return fire or respond, slight suppression effect.

2 5.56 rounds similar

3 5.56 rounds red flashing effect,

4 5.56 rounds suppression effect, brief black effect, red screen effect, bleeding out over 60% percent health gone not quite B&W but severely hurt, possible B&W effect but should be low chance.

5 5.56 rounds down to wounded state or black and white effect.

7.62 round damage vs Kevlar

1 7.62 rounds light suppression effect, black flash effect, no bleeding damage.

2 7.62 rounds suppression effect, black flash effect, red flash effect to simulate possible broken bones or trauma

3 7.62 rounds all the above however add bleeding out/ exasperation.

4 7.62 vest peneitrated severe damage or B&W effect or wounded state.

9 MM

1-4 rounds slight suppression effect no bleeding damage

5 rounds flash black bleeding effect no exasperation damage

6+rounds exasperation effect bleeding out

7-9 rounds black and white or severe health reduction to wounded state.

vs flak jacket(militia ins factions)

5.56

1 5.56 round, bleeding effect flashes black no exasperation

2 5.56 round exasperation severe damage and exasperation

3 5.56 B&W or wounded state

7.62

1 7.62 round exsaperation bleeding effect

2 7.62 round severe damage or B&W /wounded

3 7.62 round wounded if not down already

9 MM

2 rounds

TO BE FINISHED SOON

[ComradeHX]

vs flak jacket(militia ins factions)

5.56

1 5.56 round, bleeding effect flashes black no exasperation

2 5.56 round exasperation severe damage and exasperation

3 5.56 B&W or wounded state

7.62

1 7.62 round exsaperation bleeding effect

2 7.62 round severe damage or B&W /wounded

3 7.62 round wounded if not down already

9 MM

2 rounds

TO BE FINISHED SOON

As far as I can tell, Militia in-game uses some something like the Soviet 6b3.

It is frontally rated for 5.45x39mm from 10m.
They use titanium plates.

Way better than Kevlar(which is not what BluFor actually use).

[Pronck]

Go play paintball In the meantime I will have fun and relatively balanced games between insurgent and blufor. Its a game. And I wouldn't want to be an insurgent knowing that I would have to play twice as good to kill that other guy. Its project reality cause it tries make a fps video game more realistic while keeping the fun factor. Blufor whoring doesn't belong in that fun factor. I'm quite tired of these types of discussions.

I completely agree with you! There is no reason to make it supersoldier vs. insurgent with a rusty AK. Not to forget that nowadays lots of wounded people get treated on the battlefield and then get picked by PJ's to get operated in a military hospital. In PR you can just heal up with a few band-aids and some pills. And I am also sure that not every kevlar is so strong as the other one. You need to calculate "luck" and "bad luck" into the game, factors from real-life who can't be represented in-game.

[Cpt.Future]

Most of the time you're just "heavily wounded" in PR, not "dead". So what's the point of this discussion?
(In RL you can't take a burst from an AK-47 to your vital organs and still be saved like in PR :roll

There's no need to give BluFor better armor, you don't really "die" anyway ingame in most cases.

It's already pretty realistic for the BF2 engine limitations.
______

Here are the stats for a RL ballistic plate that fits into modular plate carriers that the Bundeswehr uses:

Protection Level:
7,62 x 63 mm AP (30.06) - Single Shot
7,62 x 51 mm Ball (R1) - Multi Shots
7,62 x 39 mm PI (AK-47) - Multi Shots
7,62 x 39 mm Ball (AK-47) - Multi Shots
5,56 x 45 mm Ball (R4, R5) - Multi Shots

You simply can't put that 1:1 into PR, because of gameplay/engine reasons.

[MikeDude]

Agreed with Pronk and Future.
If the respawn option or the medic options would be removed. Maybe then adding better kelvar mechanics would make a bit of sense.

[Subscyed]

False. You won't even think you got shot if someone fires a 7.62x51 at point blank, it feels like an average punch. Couple of posts earlier i said it would break a lot of bones and stuff, disregard that, in this video you can tell that you can just keep on fighitng as if nothing happened.

And that is Soft Body armour!
The stuff people use over in Afghanistan is Hard Ballistic plates tucked in specific pouches behind all the gear.

But yeah, this thread seems like a huge moot point considering that "problem" has been addressed loooooooong ago!