Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

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milosv123344
Posts: 100
Joined: 2012-07-29 13:26

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by milosv123344 »

Steeps wrote:Dunno what you mean. Have you ever realized that as soon as you press E at the entrance to a vehicle, in that same instant, within 1 second, you're in the drivers seat and the engine is ready to go? Cause teleporting to the driver's seat is cool these days.
Come on PR was about mixing realism with fun, they took away accuracy, they took away many things people loved PR for, (PR 0.2-0.75), so actually you may be right ,why the hell not do this as well...

Wanna talk about realism? Remove deviation, slow animations, ridiculous recoil on some rifles(G3) then yeah we can talk about it, PR now days is about FORCING people to play a certain way and removing any personal skill from the equation...
milosv
ExeTick
Posts: 855
Joined: 2011-01-13 22:50

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by ExeTick »

Deviation will be changed in 1.0. weapons have realistic recoil even G3. G3 kicks like hell when you fire it in real life and thats how it is in PR right now.
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milosv123344
Posts: 100
Joined: 2012-07-29 13:26

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by milosv123344 »

ExeTick wrote:Deviation will be changed in 1.0. weapons have realistic recoil even G3. G3 kicks like hell when you fire it in real life and thats how it is in PR right now.
G3 has a realistic kick? Are you sure lol? I mean something that kicks that much shouldn't even have full auto option it should be a sniper instead haha. But look at this guy, he doesn't seem to have much recoil :
G3 full auto - YouTube

Or go to 0:16 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NEVm1UH0f0
milosv
Ninja2dan
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 2213
Joined: 2007-10-29 03:09

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by Ninja2dan »

milosv123344 wrote:G3 has a realistic kick? Are you sure lol? I mean something that kicks that much shouldn't even have full auto option it should be a sniper instead haha.
I take it you are not familiar with the M14 then?

Pretty much any shoulder-fired weapon system in 7.62x51mm (aka 7.62mm NATO, .308 caliber, etc) is going to have heavy recoil due to the cartridge. It's a large round, with a lot of force, and even the most robust of small arms using that caliber or similar do have substantial recoil compared to other small arms using a lighter caliber.

Taking the M14 as an example, that weapon is badass accurate when fired in single-shot. But once you kick it into auto, it becomes nearly impossible to control without extensive training/practice, and many of the issued rifles were modified to disable the automatic function. It was later used as the M21, a modified variant used as a precision fire system (sniper/DMR rifle). Special Operations teams from multiple branches still use it as well in various configurations, retaining the full-automatic function, but SpecOps like full auto on everything.

The G3 does have a bit better recoil handling than the M14, but it's still nothing to ignore. I love the rifle, but like all battle rifles you don't want to use automatic fire that often. During CQB/MOUT it has its use. And when you need to lay down suppressive fire it works. But when you want accurate fire, it's just a waste of ammo. I'd ask a German MA about how frequently their soldiers actively train for automatic fire, with attention to accuracy as opposed to suppression.


There's also a "balancing" that comes into play. Larger-caliber weapons will often times have a lower rate of fire, greater effective range, more stopping power. But at the same time, they offer lower magazine capacity, fewer carried rounds, poor handling in automatic mode, and more recoil to deal with which means you spend more time keeping the target under the sights.

Ligher-caliber weapons are the opposite in many aspects. They tend to offer a higher rate of fire, lighter recoil and better automatic handling, increased magazine capacity and more rounds carried, and are easier to keep on target. But they also tend to have decreased effective range, and lower stopping/penetrating power.


And after typing that, I just noticed this is actually off-topic. I'm assuming the comments regarding weapons deviation will be moderated and moved to the proper section.
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Frontliner
PR:BF2 Contributor
Posts: 1884
Joined: 2012-10-29 09:33

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by Frontliner »

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote:I'd ask a German MA about how frequently their soldiers actively train for automatic fire, with attention to accuracy as opposed to suppression.
Fallschirmj?ger and the KSK will train extensively following the principle of "shooting is only learned through shooting." sometimes firing more ammo in a day than other units will fire over the course of a year. But normally, when speaking of training exercises, you'd fire full auto only during a Sturmabwehrschie?en, most exercises I had with my unit were around 10 rounds per man, only rarely 20, so firing full auto wastes the little bit of rounds you have.
milosv123344
Posts: 100
Joined: 2012-07-29 13:26

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by milosv123344 »

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote:I take it you are not familiar with the M14 then?

Pretty much any shoulder-fired weapon system in 7.62x51mm (aka 7.62mm NATO, .308 caliber, etc) is going to have heavy recoil due to the cartridge. It's a large round, with a lot of force, and even the most robust of small arms using that caliber or similar do have substantial recoil compared to other small arms using a lighter caliber.

Taking the M14 as an example, that weapon is badass accurate when fired in single-shot. But once you kick it into auto, it becomes nearly impossible to control without extensive training/practice, and many of the issued rifles were modified to disable the automatic function. It was later used as the M21, a modified variant used as a precision fire system (sniper/DMR rifle). Special Operations teams from multiple branches still use it as well in various configurations, retaining the full-automatic function, but SpecOps like full auto on everything.

The G3 does have a bit better recoil handling than the M14, but it's still nothing to ignore. I love the rifle, but like all battle rifles you don't want to use automatic fire that often. During CQB/MOUT it has its use. And when you need to lay down suppressive fire it works. But when you want accurate fire, it's just a waste of ammo. I'd ask a German MA about how frequently their soldiers actively train for automatic fire, with attention to accuracy as opposed to suppression.


There's also a "balancing" that comes into play. Larger-caliber weapons will often times have a lower rate of fire, greater effective range, more stopping power. But at the same time, they offer lower magazine capacity, fewer carried rounds, poor handling in automatic mode, and more recoil to deal with which means you spend more time keeping the target under the sights.

Ligher-caliber weapons are the opposite in many aspects. They tend to offer a higher rate of fire, lighter recoil and better automatic handling, increased magazine capacity and more rounds carried, and are easier to keep on target. But they also tend to have decreased effective range, and lower stopping/penetrating power.


And after typing that, I just noticed this is actually off-topic. I'm assuming the comments regarding weapons deviation will be moderated and moved to the proper section.
Yeah i agree with what you said, i know the m14 and kind of had it in mind when i said G3 should be a sniper rifle instead, kind of what m14 became, that's all i meant. The prone recoil on rifles in pr should be greatly reduced tho, thats just my 5 cents on it, G3 fired crouched and prone in pr seem to have the same recoil :/
milosv
Moszeusz6Pl
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 939
Joined: 2010-06-24 13:41

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by Moszeusz6Pl »

There is the same recoil, because there is no recoil stance modificator in Refractor2, only zoom modificator.

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Frontliner
PR:BF2 Contributor
Posts: 1884
Joined: 2012-10-29 09:33

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by Frontliner »

milosv123344 wrote:Yeah i agree with what you said, i know the m14 and kind of had it in mind when i said G3 should be a sniper rifle instead
But it's not used as such unless you're talking about the SG/DMR-variants. The rifle is the standard rifle for Iran(and Pakistan), which is why MEC uses it as standard issue rifle, even though it's, as a battle rifle, not quite compareable to assault rifles.
ExeTick
Posts: 855
Joined: 2011-01-13 22:50

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by ExeTick »

Sweden is using its own version of G3. called Ak4. there is some small modifications to it but dont know what.


but maybe we should stick to what the topic is about instead of deviation and different weapons :-P
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Quobble
Posts: 123
Joined: 2012-05-13 09:19

Re: Armored Vehicle Engine Warm-Up Time

Post by Quobble »

Yea you convinced me. In pr you can just "teleport" into the drivers seat and run away. IRL a driver that jumped out of a tank and shut his engine down (dont dare to ask why some driver would do that) cant just hop inside and drive...he needs to take his seat, turn on everything, and in the challenger, he might brew himself a tea. No srsly, im pro warmup now.

Also great for IED rambos and sneaky sappers, placing the mines and the apc cant run away :D
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