Removing insurgent main bases

[doop-de-doo]

I'd like to present the concept that insurgents (excluding militia or taliban) should not really have a "main base" of operations. This would, however, require some rework of the current game system. If tl :d r, skip to the four points in the list below.

When I think of insurgent main bases, I can't help wonder why there is a need for weapons caches in the first place.

Insurgents can already spawn with almost every basic kit they could want, and furthermore have ammo techies that resupply them with unlimited ammo brought from a "main base". This conflicts with the idea that weapons caches are where insurgents store the weaponry used in their war efforts.

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1. If anything, these assorted techies should be rearming off the caches themselves. Kits that are currently available at these "main bases" should be acquired at caches.
2. Bomb vehicles should be fabricated in the same manner that C4 can be placed on vehicles, using kits off the cache, without the necessity of a place for special vehicles to spawn.
3. Techies could spawn in the same manner that HMMWVs and Vodniks used to spawn on firebases, once ever so often. Either that, or they spawn in random locations to be retrieved by the insurgents.
4. Spawn points for insurgents should be in areas around the map similarly to how spawn points are placed in random locations at game start. This agrees with the theory that insurgents don't really have a centralized point of origin. An alternative method would be for the spawn points to be local to the cache locations (though that would destroy the purpose of hideouts).

For those new to the thread, we've also discussed:

- repairing at/requesting vehicles off hideouts
- a DoD for the insurgents (no other benefits, just protection)
- having vehicles drive up to caches and loading bombs (similar to logistics trucks, select bomb, right-click)

[DigitalRicky]

I like this. It makes you think why Blufor won't attack the main base in real life.

How about make it so the vehicles repair/re-arm at squad leader built vehicle repair/re-arm stations?

[zombie-yellow]

That would be a really nice change. I like it !

[camo]

i kind of like the idea of having a main base, i think of it more as a road on which reinforcements come from other regions instead of a big fortified base. The main base on kokan seems to be far enough away from the action that it feels like people are coming over to the area in response to the gunfight. I like all your other points but i say keep the main base.

[ShaunOTEast]

i kind of like the idea of having a main base, i think of it more as a road on which reinforcements come from other regions instead of a big fortified base. The main base on kokan seems to be far enough away from the action that it feels like people are coming over to the area in response to the gunfight. I like all your other points but i say keep the main base.

But OP wasn't talking about Kokan with the Taliban, he was talking about Iraqi Insurgents who can't request kits. The Iraqi insurgents of which do have main bases that are prominent like in Al Basra and Karbala where it is plonked right into the middle of the map where there are AA canons and DoD. I think I agree, but could OP elaborate on random spawn locations of techies? If it was on a map like Karbala or Marlin or Basra, the vehicles could easily spawn in the areas outside main city and would be quite difficult for insurgents to retrieve, since it is already pretty hard to defend an isolated location outside the city WITH a spawn.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

Some Shia city were no go zone for the US millitary (Karbala, Najaf, Samarra..)
Samara was the hottest city in iraq its was a suicide for US troops to go there (Samarra latest no-go zone for US troops | GulfNews.com)

An insurgent main is not unrealistic because getting in the heart of samara was almost impossibe for US troops, the famous RKG videos are one of the reason they couldn't go there a every coner a rpg was waiting for them.

[ComradeHX]

There should be a Insurgent main.

Because if every area of AO is so resistance-free; then there would not be much conflict.

Because we cannot simulate huge populatioin concentration; we had to use dome of death.

[doop-de-doo]

Could OP elaborate on random spawn locations of techies?

I would like to lay it all out in detail, but some of these things are very much dependant on what our DEVs are comfortable with creating. I believe that what they would appreciate is to know whether the community prefers that these vehicle spawn on hideouts, or at random locations around the map. Let me attempt to fill in your request here anyway.

No one wants to have vehicles spawn in the middle of nowhere, or for them to spawn and blow up because they landed halfway on top of a hotel. So I assume one part of the method would depend on the system that the DEVs currently use when deploying FSBs (FOBs) or their assets. FSBs will try to autonomously find an appropriate location to be deployed at before appearing. You may have noticed that FSBs will not appear instantaneously right after you deploy them and that they hang for a few seconds trying to find a suitable location. Sometimes they will end up complaining that it isn't possible to deploy where you wanted them to. Hopefully this sytem would take care of bad vehicle spawns.

As far as spawning in ridiculous locations goes (like out in the desert somewhere, etc.), that can be solved in several different ways:

-One solution would be for them to spawn in predetermined locations. Think of the way caches spawn in, only that more of them would be available at the same time. You won't find caches in the middle of nowhere.

-The other solution that I am offering is that vehicles would spawn on hideouts, making the choice of location up to the players.

I hope this helps.

[doop-de-doo]

There should be a Insurgent main.

Because if every area of AO is so resistance-free; then there would not be much conflict.

Because we cannot simulate huge populatioin concentration; we had to use dome of death.

Then what is the point of having weapons caches when you can just go back to your main base and get everything you need for your attacks? This is the reason behind this concept.

[ShaunOTEast]

-One solution would be for them to spawn in predetermined locations. Think of the way caches spawn in, only that more of them would available at the same time. You won't find caches in the middle of nowhere

-The other solution that I am offering is that vehicles would spawn on hideouts, making the choice of location up to the players.

The first thing is what I'm wondering about, because right now many caches do spawn at isolated positions or in open fields.

However, I think the vehicle spawning on hideouts idea would be nice and would probably solve some logistical problems as well, by spreading out the locations of techies (50 cal techies have one ammo box, correct?)

[Anderson29]

the point of the cache is to defend it so you could maybe win the game.

main bases are used and put in place mainly for vehicles, to repair and rearm them. to me it wouldnt make sense that you would have to repair a techi at a cache....

but if this was put in place then the intel system could get thrown out the window cuz then blufor should have to gather their own intel as they sometimes do when they get unknowns....and i also think for this to be a viable option to insurgency...blufor base should be attackable....

i also notice that on insurgency basra, archer & ramiel are some of the only maps that get those initial 5 min rallies all over the map at the begining....it should be that way on every insurgency map....

and some of my other gripes....
falluja has no sniper kit
ramiel has no arty ieds
karbala's arty ied and aa are invisible. blufor has to many assets. trees are to spread out and evenly placed. and the terrain is too flat...
basra could use a little more vegetation around the water areas

[DDS]

Interesting. Or request a vehical from a hideout. If I remember didn't CO's once get to request logi's from fobs?

- sent using Tapatalk HD

[Pronck]

No! Don't rape this game mode again for the insurgents. The main base is a vital part for the insurgents since that is their deployment area and safe haven that is often placed kilometers behind the front-lines, but since maps can't be that big we have this instead. A place where vehicles can spawn safely, where you can get your squad organized and where you can get your kits ready. Remove this and there is almost no reason to play this game mode since it is a guaranteed win for the BLUFOR with their fancy toys, and I am also sure that we can't atttack their mainbases if this idea gets trough.

Insurgents in real-life had way more different kinds of equipment, they don't have that in PR.
However the BLUFOR has all his fancy toys apart from some other things.

Ammo cars are in the game because if you can bring ammunition to your ambushing spot, why the hell would you walk back 5 miles to a cache? The cache functions as the objective, let it be so don't make it a "mobile main base" because you can simply rape it with mortars etc.

Just to wrap it up, I am all against this suggestion, Insurgency is fun and we should keep it fun for BOTH sides. And 9 out of 10 suggestions are made to make it only fun for the BLUFOR side and are a pain in the *ss for the insurgent side. This suggestion is also like that.

[KiloJules]

Might not disagree as whole-heartedly as Pronk but he has good points! The main bases represent the armies "homeland". Removing them would be very detrimental to teamwork and an organized game!

The worst part about this change still would be the vehicle spawn problematic though! That is sth. I generally dislike on all maps where it is featured: Vehicles spawning anywhere BUT the main base.
In a game like PR this just doesn't make any sense imo and always leads to very gamey, unrealistic and often frustrating game play. Prime example here would be the Taliban VCP in Kokan.

In the past (and also in my head) there are hundreds of INS suggestions but almost none of them could be integrated without integrating a dozen more. The mechanics intervene too much with each other. Therefore we would need to have a complete overhaul, featuring new mechanics, balancing the existing ones, etc. - lot of work!

[ComradeHX]

Then what is the point of having weapons caches when you can just go back to your main base and get everything you need for your attacks? This is the reason behind this concept.

Because then insurgent main would become the single attackable BluFor objective on map.

If you have not noticed; kit number in main is still very limited.


If you want to take away Insurgent main; make hard server rule that caps BluFor at 1/3 server population.

[doop-de-doo]

Someone has already suggested the idea of a deployable repair station (unless hideouts can repair vehicles). The commander can also bunker down in any hideout available if he has to.

Once again, this does not affect Taliban or Militia.

[Psyrus]

In the past (and also in my head) there are hundreds of INS suggestions but almost none of them could be integrated without integrating a dozen more. The mechanics intervene too much with each other. Therefore we would need to have a complete overhaul, featuring new mechanics, balancing the existing ones, etc. - lot of work!

I personally would like to see the current insurgency stay as is (perhaps with some minor tweaks), and see the advent of an "Insurgency v2" like how AAS has evolved over the years. Things like:

• Player placeable caches
• Vehicles spawning @ hideouts/deployed repair stations
• Movable caches
• Completely reworked intel system (including my collaborator idea, perhaps)
• Reworked hideout mechanics, whereby the spawn is not located on the hideout, but each hideout gives SLs the ability to place 3 mini-spawns around the hideout, therefore giving the 'spread out' nature of the insurgent forces a more wholistic feel.
• And so on and so forth

[Pronck]

But what with the suicide vehicles? Vehicles like the Gary and Big Red are easily spotable and with the current maps spawns are way to easy, BLUFOR can simply rape all the spawn points.

[doop-de-doo]

But what with the suicide vehicles? Vehicles like the Gary and Big Red are easily spotable and with the current maps spawns are way to easy, BLUFOR can simply rape all the spawn points.

Bomb vehicles should be fabricated in the same manner that C4 can be placed on vehicles, using kits off the cache, without the necessity of a place for special vehicles to spawn.

[Psyrus]

But what with the suicide vehicles? Vehicles like the Gary and Big Red are easily spotable and with the current maps spawns are way to easy, BLUFOR can simply rape all the spawn points.

Ah, that I would personally make as such [obviously would need tweaking]:

• Squad leader/commander deployable, handled by python in a similar way to how kits are handled
• Must be deployed:
  • Within 150m of a hideout
  • At least 200m from any enemy soldiers
• Potentially requiring SL+1-2 other SMs to make sure it isn't lonewolf-deployed and wasted
• A 3 second deployment-check delay to stop SLs trying to game the system by concurrently deploying the assets...

The issues with the above are:
- Confusing to know when the bombcars and such are available. Probably would need a notification for SLs like the current rally-rearmed notification.
- Potentially open to more abuse (spawn a bombcar on a roof, dive down onto an apc)
- The number of bombcars/trucks would potentially become fixed for all maps, as it's probably untenable to define a map-by-map number in a separate python file, although to be honest it wouldn't be that hard.