=HOG= (North America)

[Not_able_to_kill]

I like this server quite a lot, it's got great teamwork and great players. However, the administration could use some working out. Right now, it seems like they ban/kick first and ask questions later, no warnings issued at all. And permabans are handed out quite easily.

[brezmans]

Thanks for the feedback!


Yes, our admins are quite tough and yes sometimes it can seem as if there is no room for discussion, but we try to be fair. Mistakes obviously happen but by now the rule-breakers and trolls know that there is no room for them on the server and they tend to stay away from it, which is a huge plus.

We have tough but reasonable admins and, honestly, that's the way we like it and we believe that that is the way to open up the game for some real fun gameplay. When the trolls are dealt with swiftly, only the serious players remain.

If mistakes happen, we obviously apologize and you can always contact me here through PM or go to our website or teamspeak (173.208.235.58 ) to have a chat about it.

[NO FUN ALLOWED]

When the trolls are dealt with swiftly, only the serious players remain..

What about the hackers?

Yesterday there was a blatant hacker on your server, he wasn't obvious to anyone other than me because he spent about 2 minutes trying to shoot me through a hill and I caught one quick peek at him snapping a completely other direction trying to shoot someone else. As soon as I called him out to the admins (I typed his location on the map hoping that an admin would spectate him) the regular people in the server (some of the prwars guys) mocked and ridiculed me for trying to get the admin's attention or for trying to say this guy was hacking. Since half or whatever of the prwars guys have admin I think you should really look into who has specific control over the server, there is a lot of favoritism and in general no follow through on reports. It's pretty ridiculous that I get ridiculed for trying to oust someone who is trying to ruin the game that we're all playing and trying to have a good time on.

I know this isn't a daycare and people are going to have their own voice and opinion on things but I just think that an issue like this should be taken seriously. Which falls into my actual complaint, after I !reported nothing happened, no response from either of the admins (I think one was AFK the whole game). If !reports aren't taken seriously, then how can you expect people to stay in your server? Honestly it goes without saying that someone should have stepped up and at least spectated the guy, he's in YOUR server trying to essentially RUIN it.. why didn't they care? No one admin said a single word about it.

Anyway I think he left on his own, but he could have been picked up by the Global Ban system. I'm pretty sure no one banned him however because there was zero ban messages and no questions from admins or anything (his name was =MuK=ESPETO if you want to look it up).

Here's the proof:

If i'm wrong about him being banned by your admins then I apologize, however I stand by what I'm saying and I respect the fact that you're trying to run a competent server which 90% of the time runs well with little to no problems.

[brezmans]

French_Fries: I will speak to the admins that were online at the time. Mocking people for reporting violations like you did, is unprofessional and is not what we aim for with our admin-team. However, hacking is relatively rare in PR and claims of people hacking are for 80% of the time unfounded and if I was online at the time I would not have banned him simply because it is very hard to establish that someone is hacking on the battlefield, based off of a few very brief moments of game-play. It is usually established by going through battlerecorder files like you did now, for which we are very grateful, and not done in-game.

I will take the matter of this hacker to the server admin forums since it belongs there and I will have a word with the admins who were online at the time. Thanks for reporting it and taking the time to go through the battlerecorder, I hope this doesn't deter you from reporting someone again in the future.

Regards,

Brez

[saXoni]

Hacking is getting more and more common these days, so when someone actually calls out someone properly you should take it serious.

[brezmans]

I wrote that I would not have banned him straight away as I would have to verify it on battlerecorder first unless I could actually witness him hacking by standing next to him. I did not write that I do not take it seriously, these are two completely different things. It is not because action is not taken right away that it is being ignored.

[Tequila]

I wasn't one of the admins on but since I am an admin from prWARs I thought I would reply. I just wanted to say a couple things to clear them up.

1- We have no way to see if someone is hacking other than watching the replay like you. While we appreciate the report, I don't know what we are supposed to do. We dont have any special tools to observe anyone so the best we can do is just find where they are on the map and watch them from a distance. If they know that an admin is watching, they will probably just turn them off until they know its safe. If you think that someone is hacking, watch the reply and fraps what you saw (just like you did) and post it in the hog forum. It sucks, but its really the best that we can do.

2- We get all kinds of reports. 9/10 of them are people abusing the report feature. If you see this kind of thing happening, ask to join the admins squad or make a new one and actually talk with the admin.


As for our players mocking you in any way, we're sorry. I'll talk to the guys tonight and let them know that kind of behavior is not acceptable. Do you recall who was mocking you?

[NO FUN ALLOWED]

It does suck that there's no way to spectate someone in a case like this, and I agree that it's tough to keep up with reports with fakes and what not, but what I felt is that they just didn't give a shit. I remember at one point I typed in his location and what he was doing and no one replied at first so I thought I was just being ignored, I think I asked if someone could switch teams and see or maybe get his PB screenshot (can you still do this?) but again no one said anything. I stated it again and that's when people started getting irritated and cracking jokes against me. I don't blame them, it's annoying to see a wall of text while you're trying to play and I would probably do the same thing, but this guy got off without anything, and that's kind of what made me drop this onto you guys, no one wants these people jumping server to server and ruining games.

I was playing today and a person was banned for hacking, I'm not sure if it was really a hacker because I wasn't involved but I saw how the admin team handled it. He ended up being banned because the admin died to him and could understand that his death was a little unusual, the admin called him out on this and ended up dropping a ban. Once again no clue if he was actually hacking but what I'm getting at is, the admin can clearly tell when it happens to them and can take action, but with my experience why should the player get ignored?

I like the server tequila and thank you for the response, this is in no way an attack on your admin team or anything like that, like I said before, you guys handle shit and your server is a good place to play the game on, this is just one really isolated incident.

[Tequila]

Let me preface that I usually admin late night with LUNG and Whatthehell and occasionally a HOG player that is on late night.

what I felt is that they just didn't give a shit

Trust me when I say this, the admins I listed above (and myself) give a huge shit. While we seem irritatated at times while dealing with the issues, we get right on them. We aren't irritatated at the reports, but are irritatated at the people doing stupid things to get reported. Me, whatthehell and Lung will drop anything we are doing to take care of it. I can't speak for the other prwars admins but I'll get to that in a minute.

I typed in his location and what he was doing and no one replied at first so I thought I was just being ignored, I think I asked if someone could switch teams and see or maybe get his PB screenshot (can you still do this?) but again no one said anything. I stated it again and that's when people started getting irritated and cracking jokes against me.

This is unacceptable from anyone. Admin or not. As of last week we are trying to shut down the disrespect that happens in team and all chat. We've seen it targeted at certain clans, and we've also see players get called out for things like you mentioned in your post and we aren't going to let it fly anymore. I understand that it needs to start with prwars because anything anyone doesn in our clan reflects on the admins too. Lung and I talked about this last night in ventrilo and we are going to make sure that this kind of disrepspect doesn't happen in the =HOG= server anymore, starting with our own clan members.

get his PB screenshot (can you still do this?)

I would like to know too. I'll have Lung shoot Brezmans an email to see if we can make this happen. As far as I know the screen shots are only published in evenbalance after the player has been banned. I don't know if we can view a live feed.

I was playing today and a person was banned for hacking, I'm not sure if it was really a hacker because I wasn't involved but I saw how the admin team handled it.

Do you remember who did the ban? I think the last person that was banned for hacking while I was on (by an admin, not an auto PB ban) was months ago.

I like the server tequila and thank you for the response, this is in no way an attack on your admin team or anything like that, like I said before, you guys handle shit and your server is a good place to play the game on, this is just one really isolated incident.

We really appreciate the feedback. We would rather have people give feedback here than just let things like this happen without any way for us to fix it. This goes for anyone on the server, if you have a problem with someone or you want to talk to an admin, just let us know in game. I have no problem taking some time to making a private squad with you or letting you in our squad to talk about something thats happening on the server. If you can't get our attention just report me and I'll see it. "!r Tequilabot Hey man, can we talk for a minute?". Lung and Whatthehell are both old and grumpy , but I'll do what I can to help you out.

[nAyo]

The administration on HOG is getting terrible lately in my opinion. Admins don't care about people at all, they kick always without warning, they don't discuss, they don't try to understand what happened. It's a careless tough and biased administration.

Just now, I got kicked (obviously no warning) for saying in chat that our "CAS" squad claimed kiowa+jets on kashan. It's always been possible whenever I played on the server, but since some admins' friend wanted the kiowa they instantly kicked me and said we couldn't.

Five minutes after that, my friend gets instant kicked (no warning either) for teamkilling, when he never teamkilled anyone since it was the guy next to him, it shows how much admins care about checking the logs to make sure. Besides when we said something in the chat about it no admin whatsoever replied anything, ignoring us instead of apologizing for that unfair kick.

I barely see no difference between the old H server and HOG when those specific admins ruin everything. At least there are still good admins such as brezmans, nass, prWars etc., and I thank them for trying to keep the server up to a high standard, unlike some bad apples.

Cheers

[NO FUN ALLOWED]

Unfortunately my opinion on your admins came to bite me in the *** today. I was banned just right now because the admin team thought I was cheating. I was using an alternate joke name and racked up the most kills on my team by using proper squad tactics and real guerrilla warfare. I was squad leading on the vietnamese side and really doing a proper job defending and attacking, I think my final score was 32-3 and HALEYACR & Funeral_Direct0r both called me a hacker with questionable play. Right after the round ended I explained that I was French_Fries and I was a regular player on their server but HALEYACR repeated my score and said fuck off or fuck right or something to that extent. What kind of hacker talks in mumble directly addressing the admins and explaining that it wasn't a random new player, but someone who plays in the server every night. Also another member GNPOSTAL told me to go have fun playing with myself or something to that extent, come on really? I try to be upright and understanding but I was just banned for a bullshit reason and he has to add in some kind of remark. Unprofessional.

There's no reason for that kind of admin behavior and unfortunately this isn't the first type of unwarranted ban from HALEYACR. He's banned multiple people for things that didn't happen, or things that weren't true. I thought the protocol was to go through the Battle Recorder and watch the round, why was I banned just outright? I was planning on spending the rest of the afternoon playing on your server with some friends of mine. This is obviously a bit of irony because I was asking before for some kind of admin action against an obvious hacker but not only did they not have any evidence at all against me (like I had on the hacker I caught) but they didn't/couldn't understand that my score was reached by proper squad play, something very easy to do with communication and skill.

I'm disappointed that just because an unknown name gets a good score, there is an immediate call of a hacker. The admin team really needs a good refining, weed out the bad and keep the good (which you are in a good supply of). I feel like it's the best way to approach a situation like this, so it stops happening.

[Chris1050]

To quote the admins in the mumble session when you asked them to unban you immediately after the round ended and pointed out the name your more commonly associated with in an attempt to reassure them your not some random, the reply from =HOG= Haley was "34 and 4 go fuck yourself" where a few of us openly complained that was immature thing to say and the next reply from a =HOG= member on mumble overlay was "have fun playing by yourself from now on" The second admin quote was from GNPOSTAL. This is super pathetic and to think I've seen someone banned for life from HOG because of a accidental TK now this. These are the people that basically give rights to players in the North American region to play the game. I am so tired of having to deal with this drama on a regular basis because Admins in the only active servers feel they have the right to treat people like this, specially people who have been playing for years and support this game by suggesting it to others and friends and giving people other people to play with. You know how fun the game would be if it was 5v5 HOG only, stop treating the community like they have no value.

This ruins the game for me on a regular basis.

[DDS]

There is a pattern with HOG.

Last month I was unable to join the server because I was banned from HOG server. When I PM'd Brezman he explained it was because he did not like what I had posted here in the forums. "roughly 25% of your posts you say that every server except TG is a terrible server." "TG will re-open in a few days and then you can play there again, until then you'll have to play somewhere else." I was later unbanned.

Recently I joined Dogfarts squad on Kashan doing mortars. He was teaching a new player how to use mortars and our full squad was helping. We got attacked multiple times by armor and managed to relocated to different places. I briefly grabbed a HAT to fend off a tank while we built a TOW. At rounds end the team berated Dogfart and me in mumble about our mortar squad, even to say we lost because of us. We barely had any requests for mortars as the US team rolled the flags within 30 minutes. I got a PM from Brezman in Xfire and here who stated I was the "worst player he had ever seen" and stated I "had the HAT the entire round" which was simply not true and also made some rather bizarre and offensive comments. Then Brezman promptly banned me permanently from the server.

French Fries criticized HOG administration in this thread. And now, he is banned.

[Pronck]

It seems you US folks will have only one server going up in the future if this continues.

[RedWater]

I also must say that the latest games on =HOG= were not enjoyable at all. Exspecially this HALEYACR person seems to be disrupting gameplay with completly unjustified reasons very often. The only examples I recall atm are the one nAyo already posted since I happened to be there, I have not played on HOG since.

C'mon guys, get your shit together. After you switched from muttrah only to a mixed server I loved playing there because the teamplay was high, real problems were dealt with quickly and all admins were acting mature.
Now it just seems to be going down the same road as =]H[= did.

Also DDS, I almost cant believe that, my impression of Brezmans was that he is the last sane admin on that server ....

[brezmans]

I will look into all of this stuff, it seems the misunderstandings keep piling up.

I personally haven't been able to play PR in about a month with one or two exceptions since I'm overwhelmed by stuff going on in my personal life. Thanks for all the comments about my sanity, it's much appreciated

@DDS: you know full well that you are leaving out about 80% of the conversation, you also PM'd me, and I quote:

Look Mr. I Care. I asked you to stop sending PM's to my inbox. Now you have.
So this is now become an issue with realitymod moderator. So I get the last word.

Fuck off

I have left you alone since {snip}and I honestly don't want you even near our server, so stay out of our feedback thread since you have effectively not been able to play on our server for quite some time now, I doubt you have any true feedback to add. I will let a moderator deal with this as I honestly don't want to deal with you any more.


@nAyow: I will look into what happend to you, but please, for the love of PR, the accusations that "an admin's friend" wants to have some sort of asset is cheap and easy and almost never true, not on our server at least.

Also, we have no friends

@Redwater: Haley11ACR is not a bad guy and maybe not the most patient admin, but he is a stand up guy and one of the most reasonable people I've met in PR. I will talk to him and sort it out.

Like I pointed out above, I have barely played any PR at all in the past month so I'm less involved in the day-to-day administration of the server but I will have a talk with the members responsible for this.

Thanks for the feedback, I hope you won't be completely deterred from playing on our server because of a few bad episodes.

[csten]

I agree with all of these sentiments about HALEY and his questionable administration. I can recall two separate occasions in the past few months where he temp banned players falsely, and then when confronted merely told them "take it to the forums". And those are just the two that I've noticed/been on to see (not to mention when he temp banned me for "glitching" which was known to be untrue by everyone else, other admins included). I really do like your server, its much better than CIA and your admins are unquestionably better, however that doesn't mean they are immune to error and that these complaints aren't relevant.

[mastik]

There is a pattern with HOG. ................
............French Fries criticized HOG administration in this thread. And now, he is banned.

he was banned under a different name on the server. The problem being that there was no investigation and the admin who banned him replied with "34 and 4 , fuck you" at the end of the round.

[brezmans]

Please disregard what DDS writes, he was banned. French_Fries was indeed banned under a completely different name for suspicious gameplay. We are reviewing his ban and will answer him soon through PM as these forums are not for ban appeals.

I will be sending a few PMs to the people who posted here to address their concerns with bans/kicks and see if we can't clear things up a bit.

As for Haley, he is a valued member of our clan but I admit you need to know him quite a bit as he seems extremely harsh sometimes at first sight. If it can bring any relief, most of you know me as patient and reasonable and I would not be able to co-admin the server with him if I didn't think his actions are justified for 90% of the time; like csten pointed out, our admins aren't flawless but we work very hard on the server, which is why it's been up and running since 2008, something most servers can't claim. Haley is a veteran and ex-officer who saw a lot of combat and that may influence his admin-style as he has zero tolerance for bullshit. It's a style of admining that is practiced throughout our clan on all of our servers and you will find that if you break no rules and don't disrupt the gameplay by cooperating with admins, you will have no trouble with any of us. If you disagree with an admin's decision, post it on our forums and we will gladly either clarify the actions or admit that we were wrong, but please don't start discussing it on the server, thereby disrupting gameplay.

Thanks for reading.

Keep the feedback coming, good or bad!

[Mineral]

that all sounds good and nice. But there is no reason for any admin of any form to not use warnings or take actions without proper accusations and proof. No matter what the personality of that admin might be.

Explaining admin behavior and temper is good, and it's good that you have an admin like him. But actions must be justified. Specially if multiple people complain that they are not.

If I ban a guy because I think he hacked or did anything else wrong, that's fine. As long as in a later thread,PM or ban appeal I can show the proof. If not a immediate unban and apology should be written.

The warning and kicks commands are there for a reason. Not everything needs to end in a permanent ban.

Every server is pretty much no tolerance, or trying to be. Every action has a reaction if a admin is doing his job. But the reaction must be just.