Removing insurgent main bases

[doop-de-doo]

That's the main issue (note the pun) that concerns me: how comfortable/confident the DEVs are with creating vehicle spawns that are not in fixed locations.

If they can solve that problem then I believe that they might be able to get the vehicles to spawn on (time/quantity limited) demand, or at hideouts.

The issue of "When will they be available to spawn?" is already existing in the case of kits spawing at main or on weapons caches. You just have to keep checking. As everyone is already used to that, I don't consider that a problem.

[Pronck]

Bomb vehicles should be fabricated in the same manner that C4 can be placed on vehicles, using kits off the cache, without the necessity of a place for special vehicles to spawn.

When you do that there are no real driver detonated bombcars anymore, that should not be the case. Bombcars should be so tjat the driver can detonate them like now not by calling the guy with the C4 Kit.

[doop-de-doo]

If the DEVs can implement the ability for .50cal/ammo/bomb vehicles to spawn at/from hideouts then this shouldn't be an issue.

If not, and they need to be fabricated, one could always get someone to drive them into the target (driver/gunner style). The reason why no one has done it this way so far is because they would have lost the c4 kit.

[Pronck]

Or instead of that a vehicle spawn point in a small garage in a DoD for the BLUFOR...

[doop-de-doo]

Do .50 cal techies carry an ammo box?

I don't believe they do. However, there are ammo techies which can transport ammo.

[doop-de-doo]

-bump- Does anyone have anything to add?

[Quobble]

Well. Atm we have the problem that many people lurke around the map, but not defending the cache. If you let the insurgents spawn on different locations on the map, itll be the same as with firebases.

The vehicles will get raped by the bluefor every time they find one. If you make them spawn at caches then you need to remove the second unknown, because else the vehicles will be lost while bluefor searches for unknowns.

Imo there should only be ONE known cache per map, which is known right after start. People can only spawn in on that cache or on firebases. The vehicle spawn system will be a problem. Bluefor will just camp the garry spawn for example.
If you let a garry spawn next to a cache, the enemies have a great target.
If you let it spawn somewhere on the map, it will get raped.

My solution: people can only spawn on caches and hideouts, and important vehicles like garry and bombcar or bigred spawn in a vehicle main. Still DOD but no spawn.

Techies should spawn on the map, except for the spg and one or 2 ammo techies.

Kits will spawn on the cache. Not easy for people to grab the right weapon.

Biggest problem Imo:
In small cache locations, people will die because of crushing into each other due to the lack of space.

[=-=kittykiller]

these are my suggestions for insurgency 2.0, whilst keeping 1.0

//2 caches

// random or 3 small spawns around dog boxes. dog box also provide ammo.

//ability to build road blocks Vehicle repair is cache based.

// collaborator is one ticket and 10 intel lost

// blufor must attack cache within 45 mins or it is moved and they loose equal tickets to, destroying it gains them

// no specialist bomb cars . Many vehicles spawn on map all over, artillery ied OR ied at cache added to vehicle either upgrades it or passenger presses fire. (bikes excluded)

//no main base 2 cache, insurgents get 5 mins at start of round to setup. Maybe server side option of random bog boxes.

//strip insurgency back as far as possible. I.E no adding of strange timers etc

what do you think is this possible I would play it.

(I haven't taken into account the techies,simplest solutions are always best... maybe they spawn at cache or else commader requested or just a DOD vehicle depot that isn't allowed to be camped)

[CR8Z]

This thread was about removing main bases, which I must admit, piqued my interest. However, after some good debate, I agree that insurgent main bases should stay.

Caches represent other supply dumps, all over the city. This surely happens in RL. What probably doesn't happen is that the caches spawn randomly. I think they should be placeable. This is a terrific suggestion.

I also like the idea of making ANY vehicle a bomb car. Perhaps a limited "suicide" kit for insurgents that can be requested? Just let the dude blow up whether in a vehicle or whatever.

[=-=kittykiller]

This thread was about removing main bases, which I must admit, piqued my interest. However, after some good debate, I agree that insurgent main bases should stay.

Caches represent other supply dumps, all over the city. This surely happens in RL. What probably doesn't happen is that the caches spawn randomly. I think they should be placeable. This is a terrific suggestion.

I also like the idea of making ANY vehicle a bomb car. Perhaps a limited "suicide" kit for insurgents that can be requested? Just let the dude blow up whether in a vehicle or whatever.

no no no simple

[doop-de-doo]

Do we have any experts on the matter of weapons caches and their appearance?

From the looks of it, the caches in PR are very small -- the kind that you slip under a bed, or in a small hole in the ground. They obviously come from somewhere. Are they dished out from a nearby central HQ or are they imported from someplace that isn't local at all?

Where are their bomb vehicles fabricated? Is it, again, at a local HQ or it is more spontaneous, at random garages/shops.

---

If main bases are supposed to simulate areas of the city that are too overpowered for BLUFOR to penetrate why is BLUFOR allowed to drive and operate around their main bases with relative ease? Wouldn't the main bases really be sections of city that continue off of the map which simulate the thick presence of insurgents deeper into the city?

[Pronck]

Doop-de-doo I find that every faction needs a safe haven where people can stop for repairs, ammunition and to take a piss. A main base is made for that, taking it away from the insurgents is like raping insurgency once again. It represent the safe areas for insurgents behind the front-lines or the insurgent hardpoints which barely got attacked by coalition forces. Since you can't really implement it due to map sizes and other reasons we have the current main bases.

Whatever algorithm you'll make to spawn everything it will end up in raping spawns, 15 minute long games and the insurgents getting totally crushed by the BLUFOR.

About the BLUFOR driving around the mainbase, that is most of the time because the insurgents have no way to preperate for an attack like they did with the uprising of certain Iraqi cities. (Tal-Afar, Fallujah, Karbala, Samaraa) so getting IEDs in the right place will open holes for the BLUFOR to rush the cache immediatly. So people then choose to stay relatively closer to the cache then when placing IEDs.

[doop-de-doo]

Whatever algorithm you'll make to spawn everything it will end up in raping spawns.

Not an issue. Hideouts, multiple "random" locations to spawn from, even if somewhat distant from the cache will probably closer to the cache than the main base itself.

The random spawn points should be similar to the spawn points currently available at main bases. If they get taken out/overrun, they can respawn after some time. This actually empowers the insurgents to quite some degree to the point that they don't really need hideouts.

If vehicles like techies and bomb cars can spawn/be requested from hideouts, this empowers insurgents to an unparalleled degree.

I find that every faction needs a safe haven where people can stop for repairs, ammunition and to take a piss.

I didn't say they can't have a safe zone (section of city not yet accessible to BLUFOR), I am suggesting the removal of the main base with it's unlimited ammo, vehicle spawns, and specialized kits which should really be retrieved from caches.

If SLs can put up a few repair stations (or if hideouts can do repairs) then all you would have to do is find a nice quiet spot.

[=-=kittykiller]

just for lolz

nothing matters but the gameplay

the gameplay as it is now could be improved

realism as to cache size , implementing somekind of given relating to movement or any other dynamic is moot!

look at the game now, have you played for a few years ?

ok, now, what does the bf2 engine allow?

not a lot.

the way the insurgency setup is now is close to its final resting place. PERIOD

all suggestions need to be within the context of the game as we play it not hypothetical situations

please see my post in PREVIOUS PAGE for detailed run down of changes

[=-=kittykiller]

Do we have any experts on the matter of weapons caches and their appearance?

From the looks of it, the caches in PR are very small -- the kind that you slip under a bed, or in a small hole in the ground. They obviously come from somewhere. Are they dished out from a nearby central HQ or are they imported from someplace that isn't local at all?

Where are their bomb vehicles fabricated? Is it, again, at a local HQ or it is more spontaneous, at random garages/shops.

---

If main bases are supposed to simulate areas of the city that are too overpowered for BLUFOR to penetrate why is BLUFOR allowed to drive and operate around their main bases with relative ease? Wouldn't the main bases really be sections of city that continue off of the map which simulate the thick presence of insurgents deeper into the city?

this is pointless

[Pronck]

Not an issue. Hideouts, multiple "random" locations to spawn from, even if somewhat distant from the cache will probably closer to the cache than the main base itself.

The random spawn points should be similar to the spawn points currently available at main bases. If they get taken out/overrun, they can respawn after some time. This actually empowers the insurgents to quite some degree to the point that they don't really need hideouts.

If vehicles like techies and bomb cars can spawn/be requested from hideouts, this empowers insurgents to an unparalleled degree.



I didn't say they can't have a safe zone (section of city not yet accessible to BLUFOR), I am suggesting the removal of the main base with it's unlimited ammo, vehicle spawns, and specialized kits which should really be retrieved from caches.

If SLs can put up a few repair stations (or if hideouts can do repairs) then all you would have to do is find a nice quiet spot.

Again how fun you think it will be, it will be more in favor of the BLUFOR that in favor of the insurgents, and as of now insurgency is everytime in favor of the BLUFOR except for Korengal. Start thinking of ideas that will prevent the insurgents from being the underdog again and again.

[ryan d ale]

Do we have any experts on the matter of weapons caches and their appearance?

From the looks of it, the caches in PR are very small -- the kind that you slip under a bed, or in a small hole in the ground. They obviously come from somewhere. Are they dished out from a nearby central HQ or are they imported from someplace that isn't local at all?

Where are their bomb vehicles fabricated? Is it, again, at a local HQ or it is more spontaneous, at random garages/shops.

---

I don't profess to be an expert in weapon caches but I have seen many.

They generally do appear like the small supply crates in PR and infact they're a rather accurate depiction. Everything comes in wooden boxes or sometimes different shaped containers. IT doesn't matter where they come from as they are generally shipped and packaged the same especially when all the weapons tend to be original or licensed soviet imitations.

VBIEDS are often manufactured outside, the reasons being:

Relatively secure territory and local support
No garage
Better freedom of movement/ease of production
Show action to locals - more funding
Some places have a lack of warehouses/garages or industrial space
Size of vehicles (i.e 'big red' and 'gary')
If accident happens indoors...it is better outside.

However, insurgents do operate workshops and there's been fine examples of craftsmanship:-

Home made rockets and mortars
Remote controlled automobiles
Remote controlled 'play cars' with bombs on them
Various weapons (especially Pesheneg and PKM) on RC Gyroscope with Camera (i.e CROWS)
Imitation Vehicles and Uniforms (i.e dressing up as special forces of army they are fighting and abducting enemies whilst undercover, running up check points and killing everyone...)
Home made AAA (timed mortars or RPG...well used in Iraq)
'High Walled' Modified 4x4 to shield people throwing grenades into bases (drive by style)
Welding armour to Technicals
Mounting BMP cannons on Technical
Mounting rocket pod of Hind on Technical
Mounting ZSU/AAA on vehicles
and so on....

[doop-de-doo]

The main goal of our current insurgency game mode is to defend caches from getting destroyed. The difference here being that if you want ammo, go to the cache.

What difference will there be if they don't have a main base? How often do you really use the main base except when you run out of places to spawn or to get a vehicle there?

What if you could almost spawn anywhere on the map using these random spawn points?

What if you could set up a hideout and request (a limited amount) of vehicles off it, or they spawn there for you after some time?

What if you could fabricate your own car bomb? Either by planting explosives on it, or bringing it to a cache?

These are the ideas suggested and being discussed.

I don't profess to be an expert in weapon caches but I have seen many.

I appreciate your feedback.

[Pronck]

The main goal of our current insurgency game mode is to defend caches from getting destroyed. The difference here being that if you want ammo, go to the cache.

What difference will there be if they don't have a main base? How often do you really use the main base except when you run out of places to spawn or to get a vehicle there?

What if you could almost spawn anywhere on the map using these random spawn points?

What if you could set up a hideout and request (a limited amount) of vehicles off it, or they spawn there for you after some time?

What if you could fabricate your own car bomb? Either by planting explosives on it, or bringing it to a cache?

I use the main base over 20 times a game when playing a full round, since I rather reload my ammo car in a safe area than near a cache where the mortars are landing. I also use it to plan my next move once there are no known caches. I use it to get the right weapons and then move to the front-lines. I use it as a deployment area, it is also representing a deployment area so why not use it for that purpose. The only difference is, is that it isn't 10 kilometers away from the frontline but very close.

Random spawn points is fun at the beginning of the round, but later on it will start dividing the teams and it will make it a walk in the park for the BLUFOR. They either can walk straight to cache or they will rape the spawn points.

I rather let my vehicles spawn in a safe area 2 clicks away from the front than just 1 block further away from the cache near a hideout, so people can pick it up when necessary and it doesn't get destroyed. With spawning on hideouts chances are big with the UAV that it gets mortared before it is ready to use.

The strong pro for the bombcar is that the driver can detonate it, making it with kits will result in asset and vehicle waste. People will start using technicals and the biggest problem will be that you always have to talk with the detonator. If you let him drive with you there is a big chance that he get's teamkilled and that you will lose he kit. Something we rather avoid. Fabricating is okay, if we have a menu to choose the vehicle from and the power of the bomb, but I rather fabricate it in my deployment area than 50 meters away from the enemy.

I hope this shows why replacing everything from the main to the cache or hideout near it is not such a good idea.

[Gracler]

Instead of having a main base I would like that insurgents had some spawn locations spread all over the map like with caches. They would of-course be "over-run" and deactivated if Bluefor is in the area so it would serve 2 purposes. When the presence of enemy's are gone for like 1 min the spawn-point "re-spawns"

1. blue-for can't spawn-rape or be magically back stabbed by a spawning insurgent.
2. Insurgents would be able to see where about the blue-for is approximately

The informant system for the insurgent commander would then be obsolete but I have always thought it was a useless feature that never gets used... mostly because no-one wants to command insurgents.

Hideouts work as spawn locations for special modified vehicles like technical's

Insurgents don't have repair stations ...but there vehicles re-spawn faster

Caches work the same way they do today except you can't spawn directly on them, and the "intel" marker for the blue-for is reverted back to the orginal randomness so its not too obvious where it is.... or blue-for is denied mortars on insurgent maps because of collateral damage perhaps. Maybe a "area attack" with something like the uav reaper or what its called that has to be lazed with a SL and has high damage but low blast radius.

Lastly any regular vehicle Trucks and cars spawn with 0 ammo and can be brought to a weapon cache and be "armed" with c4 after 1 min and is now a bomb vehicle.
I think it is not possible to spawn a vehicle without it having max ammo so I guess this idea isnt going to work....but would be nice

btw I hardly ever play as insurgent because I think they rarely have a chance against an unorganised enemy team...and no chance if its organised.... and insurgents are hardly ever organised. If insurgents got more freedom i would play it more.