New Game Mode- Special Forces

[SGT.Ice]

I was always told SF would never be featured in PR.

Suppressed weapons and sights for that matter vary depending on the mission.

If you wanted to simulate the SEALs for example, you'd need thermal scopes on half the squad.

Couple problems with 40's suggestion, in the US atleast we operate in teams of 12 for a squad, SF goes in teams of 8-12, GB/SEALs included for the most part.

Snipers carry climbing gear on them

Green Berets actually use their E-tools to fight on rare occasions from what i've heard.

Jdams are somewhat killing the point of SF. SoF/SMU/SOU go in alone without support, aside from the very rare support packages of something like a gunship, CAS in the area or sometimes vehicle support which was requisitioned prior and possibly local to the region.

They also operate during the daytime, not just at night, for CQB SEALs like to use MP5s, SEALs/Green Berets overall stick to the M4A1 SOPMOD weapons platform and mod it as needed. They'd likely go with red dots for CQB, ACOGs would likely be if they were planning to engage at over 100M possibly.

Thermal scopes carried by half the SEALs would be for spotting purposes.

Silencers more than for being quiet would likely be for CQB a lot of the time.

If you wanted you can even throw in the "death masks" that some of them supposedly use.

Green Berets everyone has an area of expertise, ranging from 18A - Team Commander, 18B - Weapons Sergeant, 18C - Engineering Sergeant, 18D - Medical Sergeant, 18E - Communications Sergeant, 18F- Intel Sergeant, 18Z - Team Sergeant & 180A - Team XO.

[Darman1138]

I was always told SF would never be featured in PR.

Do you happen to remember the reason behind this? I'd rather stop trying to learn Python if it wouldn't even get implemented...

[piepieonline]

Considering the constant clamoring for new gamemodes, I'm sure you can find another way to help out with python. And yea, I've heard the same, but maybe for something different to do in game...

EDIT: And as one of the address python guys (kinda), I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible...

[Souls Of Mischief]

I was always told SF would never be featured in PR.

Suppressed weapons and sights for that matter vary depending on the mission.

If you wanted to simulate the SEALs for example, you'd need thermal scopes on half the squad.

Couple problems with 40's suggestion, in the US atleast we operate in teams of 12 for a squad, SF goes in teams of 8-12, GB/SEALs included for the most part.

WUT

I call BS on that. How about you provide some proof, bru?

[Mikemonster]

So basically the game will be 12 Role-Player Milsim types playing with l33t kits, 20 people that want the l33t kits but that have had to play insurgents and just want the round to end, and 32 people that like playing insurgents and are bored and want the round to end instead of waiting around with only 12 opposing guys to shoot at.

Bring back littlebirds I say. Put the icing on the cake.

(For a theme night/closed server this would be great though).

[Rhino]

To me this sounds like while it would be pretty exciting for the SF team, the OpFor faction, w/e it may be, for the most part will be board out of their mind, with in all likelihood, seeing no to little action for the entire game.

EDIT: And as one of the address python guys (kinda), I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible...

The biggest problem really is the team ratios. We have talked about it for other gamemodes (including insurgency) where one team would have more players than the other, but from my understanding, the problem lies with how auto-balance their teams currently and gamemode python scripts can't really work with it.

It may be possible to somehow integrate the auto-balance script into the mod's python files or even make a new one from scratch, but this may mean servers have limited control over it.

But ye, I'm just going off what dbzao said a few years ago and that's if my memory is correct on the matter and things may have changed since then, dunno.

But ye, being able to manipulate team balance ratios depending on gamemode, possibly even map and layer, would be awesome in general

[Eddie Baker]

Do you happen to remember the reason behind this? I'd rather stop trying to learn Python if it wouldn't even get implemented...

Because every other game in a contemporary setting out there does special operations.
Most of all, realistically implementing them is not very feasible with this engine, and with the amount of life left in this engine, not worth the effort. This is not the engine to test this concept. ARMA2 might have been one to try it on, but PR: ARMA2 development has ceased and is now focused on ARMA3. And unfortunately, ARMA3 might have gone full-retard, taking away everything about the previous games that made people choose them over MoH and CoD, and making it . . . more like CoD.

Worse, it opens the can of shit-worms for everyone wanting whatever special operations unit they happen to be fanboys of that week just so they can play with the awesome toys that aren't used by regular units and/or live out their fantasies of being one of the 1337. And everybody thinks they know exactly what SOF carry/how they organize for every mission based on what they read on a forum, in Black Hawk Down/No Easy Day, or saw on Futureweapons or that SpikeTV Warrior show.

SOF individual and unit-level loadouts and other TTP are their own business, and any public domain info you find about it should be taken with a serious dose of salt. Asking those who might know current information, best case scenario, will get you mocked. And if it doesn't, you're likely talking to a poser. The most accurate public domain information out there is about operations from years earlier rather than current operations.

Capping the number on the SOF team is semi-realistic, because SOF will use different sized elements depending on the mission. Again, historical example: the SEAL element lead by the late LT Michael Murphy (MOH) was only 4 men for a special reconnaissance mission. Direct action missions will have much more men plus a security element/QRF. At Pacora River Bridge in Panama in 1989, Army Special Forces deployed with more than just a SFOD-A; they took 20 men. And they had gunship support tasked to them.

In a game like ARMA2, where you could have multiple sub-factions on a given (and fucking huge) map/mission, maybe you could be limited to a a couple of squads on one team depicting SOF with the rest in that faction depicting Ranger/SFSG/similar unit or a conventional infantry unit as the QRF/security element. Which ones do you think most of the players are going to want to be?

I think the fun/novelty of this game mode would wear off after about a half-dozen rounds. Cache and extraction locations will be memorized and the semi-realistically capped to a small number special operations force team will get creamed. Over and over. At least it will always be fully manned, because everybody wants to feel special and play with the cool toys.

[Rhino]

I was always told SF would never be featured in PR.

This is true for the most part for the reasons Eddie has already pointed out.

However saying that, we do somewhat have one SF mission already ingame, in PR:F to be exact since I portrayed an SAS mission in the Falklands on the Skirmish Infantry layer: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... lands.html

Rhino;1819718']

Skirmish 16 - Pebble Island Raid (Night)
Setting: Night
Tickets Team 1: 100
Tickets Team 2: 40
Info:
Based on the SAS Raid on Pebble Island: Raid on Pebble Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
GBs objective is to destroy the aircraft on the airfield, while Argentina tries to fight off the attackers.
Note that shooting the engine of the aircraft causes more damage than shooting the fuselage, and you can quite effectively destroy these with bullets, simulating damaging the aircraft vital systems so it cant be flown.

Spoiler for Assets:

GBAtlantic Conveyor1x Wessex [10min Respawn]
3x RHIB [5min Respawn, max of 3]ArgentinaPebble Island14x Pucara (Dummy Objectives, A-1H as Place Holder) [No Respawn, Costing 10 tickets each]

Although saying that, currently ingame its only with normal soldiers/kits with normal gear conducting the raid, although there are some long term plans for PR:F to make an "1982 SAS Faction" with the SAS getting M16A1s etc just for this layer but this is pretty low priority.

[Darman1138]

Maybe this would be better as a Coop level with the AI as the Insurgents? Then we don't have to worry about bored Insurgents and even if the players screw up as SOF they won't be totally ruined as they're fighting the AI which isn't the smartest thing around.

[camo]

i think it would be cool but i agree with Eddie Baker, save it for another engine and another PR.

[greg3000]

soooo is it a yes or a no ? Cuz i rly Wanna see SF happening

[wilko987]

How many tkts should UK/special forces get?

[gipakok]

This won't work because even with just some AKs it doesn't mean the insurgent players are less trained and not co-operating like the guys on the SF team like in real life.

[Darman1138]

Most of all, realistically implementing them is not very feasible with this engine, and with the amount of life left in this engine, not worth the effort. This is not the engine to test this concept.

Some how I missed that part on my first read through. I didn't really think about that. Guess I should start learning how to map/model for CryEngine 3 then

[carmikaze]

This won't work because even with just some AKs it doesn't mean the insurgent players are less trained and not co-operating like the guys on the SF team like in real life.

As already mentioned in the first post of this thread, US troops will get more advanced weapontechnology. That would balance it.

[Heavy Death]

In PR, Spec ops conists of normal players and INS consists of normal players. Neither fear death, both have same skills.

Idea is fine and all, im sure everyone of use has though about something like that at some point, but even if specops getadvanced equipment its not nearly as effective as IRL. Also there is no surprise element or nothing.

Plus blufor whoring would go to a completely lnew level. No, dimension actually.

We at CIA are planning an INS one life event, which could possibly be similar to this, but not the same ofcourse.

[Eddie Baker]

As already mentioned in the first post of this thread, US troops will get more advanced weapontechnology. That would balance it.

It isn't going to balance jack or shit when we can't even have authentic rates of fire and night vision goggles in this wonderful engine that was already outdated when it debuted almost 9 years ago. As Heavy Death mentioned, there is no surprise element. Cache and extraction locations will be memorized after a few rounds and the semi-realistically capped to a small number special operations force team will get creamed every single time.

Some people don't want in-game factions to not have less advanced equipment, such as towed anti-aircraft guns or stationary ATGM launchers, that they don't use in real life, simply so every faction has access to the same general type of shit. That and because getting things to work right or semi-realistically in this piece of shit engine is next to impossible are why you will never see things like Javelin, individual and CSW thermal sights, etc.

This is not going to happen, and if it somehow does, it would be even less realistic than the insurgency mode it is based on.

[Rhino]

It isn't going to balance jack or shit when we can't even have authentic rates of fire and night vision goggles in this wonderful engine that was already outdated when it debuted almost 9 years ago.

NVGs are possible in the BF2 engine, just look at BF2SF. We just need to fix our shaders and code them up to work in PR, just that the only people who can do that have no time on their hands right now to do it as there is more important things than making the map turn green

It also really isn't a problem with the engine to make this happen (unless you wanted to go with the concept of SF human players vs AI since BF2's AI is a POS). The problem is very much its a player vs player concept, where the real life advantages are just not weapons/kit, its more about training and element of surprise etc, something we simply can't simulate though a gamemode on real players, w/e engine your on.

Also Eddie I know you don't think much of the BF2 engine but to be frank, it really isn't as bad as you may think. W/e engine you go on there are going to be problems when working as a mod at least, like ARMA2, you can't do some of the simplest things in BF2 like "shovel a deployable" etc, even thou the engine is in many ways far more flexible than BF2, it still has many flaws. The real advantage PR:BF2 has simply the foundation we have made over the past god knows how many years with loads of good quality content and gameplay, and to replicate than onto another engine and as well in higher quality, is not only going to take a hell of a lot of time, but also has the chance of never hitting that spark PR:BF2 has.

[Souls Of Mischief]

It isn't going to balance jack or shit when we can't even have authentic rates of fire and night vision goggles in this wonderful engine that was already outdated when it debuted almost 9 years ago.

How about the weapons that the SF will use had lower deviation, less recoil, faster reload? To simulate that their skills and training is far superior than that of bunch of insurgents?

Just an idea, no need to lynch me for being "OMFG COD NOOB LOl xXx420xXx PR BEST MILSIM BRO" (not directed at you Eddie).

[Eddie Baker]

How about the weapons that the SF will use had lower deviation, less recoil, faster reload? To simulate that their skills and training is far superior than that of bunch of insurgents?

Just an idea, no need to lynch me for being "OMFG COD NOOB LOl xXx420xXx PR BEST MILSIM BRO" (not directed at you Eddie).

No problem.

From what I understand, any weapon changes have to be coded across the board for all factions using it, or you have to add a "new" weapon, which of course adds more data to download and usage size.

Also, any conventional infantry small unit is as high speed/low-drag as its troops and leadership make it. All infantry (and thus, special operations forces) have to excel in the fundamentals of small arms marksmanship, small unit tactics, physical training and land navigation if they want to survive to do their job well. They just aren't free-fall, dive or language qualified, and most of them don't static-line jump or fast-rope, either. But they also don't sell many video games.

Special Ops kits have had their time in PR and it came and went years ago.