AA Hipfire Thread

[Stemplus]

Can it be reversed back to the way it was in vanilla that AAs wouldn't blow up on flares and if you'd fire an AA unguided it would fly straight up in the sky?

[waldov]

As for what's possible from the above (not saying any of it should be done at all):
1. yes
2. yes
3. no
4. no (at least not easily or practically)
5. possibly if you where willing to put enough trial and error + testing into it but missile behaviour coding isn't straight forward.
6. yes
7. no since an auto deploy isn't possible, but if it was then probably yes.

Yeah i thought it might be something like that which is really to much work for Devs ATM at best.But I was curious in relation to the Aircraft receiving a warning after missile launch maybe there is a possibility
example :
The MANPAD operator aims at the heat source(the aircraft is unaware of this)
The MANPAD operator recieves a lock on(the aircraft is unaware of this)
The MANPAD operator Presses the trigger(the aircraft now receives a warning)
basically pressing the trigger gives a warning to the target.

To put it into other words the ability for aircraft to know when they are being locked onto is blocked(which you said is possible)
But by pressing the trigger the Block is removed/opened so the aircraft receives a warning as the missile is launched.

Just an idea i dont know if it could work but it could be away around.

[Moszeusz6Pl]

You have only 2 sounds settings: first lock warning, which is played while somebody start locking you, and second lock warning when missile is locked on you. There is also possibility to add warning on HUD, but this one can be only linked to first warning, although can be delayed by some constant time, same as sound. Making it give warning after missile is fired is impossible in BF2 engine.

[K4on]

Made some changes just 5 minutes ago:
The success rate of killing a chopper via AA-hipfiring in v1.0 will be very low.

[Quobble]

A number of things could be done to make the Surface to Air engagements in PR more realistic(Im not sure which ones are actually doable here):
-Aircraft receive no warning of locks by radar or heat seeking weapons.
-AA missile speed is reduced(Not to comical levels) to increase evasion time.
-Aircraft receive a warning when Missiles or Rockets(including RPGs) are fired at them.
-Flares are automatically deployed when the Aircraft receive a warning.
-AA missiles hit chances are modified to:

-MAN-PADS/Deployed AA systems
90% Stationary/hovering target
60% Steadily moving target (Across line of fire)
15% Fast moving target (Across line of fire)
0-15% Maneuvering target
1-10% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)

-Heat seeking AAM/Vehicle based SAMs
95% Stationary Targets
75% Steadily moving targets (Across line of fire)
40% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)
20% Fast moving targets (Across line of fire)
0-20% Maneuvering target

-Radar guided AAM
100% stationary targets
85% steadily moving targets (Across line of fire)
50% Target deploying Chaff (stationary)
30% Fast moving target (Across line of fire)
0-20% Maneuvering target

-Not all aircraft have Early warning systems
-Not all aircraft have instantly deployed flares

If these additions were possible it would be amazing If not it would be interesting to know which ones are possible.

man you know that SAM means surface to air missile?
hell, why should a vehicle or aircraft get a warning when a rpg warhead is launched at them?

and the missiles dont work with a % chance system. if you are able to out maneuver the missile and deploy your flares properly, you will escape. but as i mentioned before, you cannot escape if you get hit half a second after launch -> hipfire aa.

[waldov]

Quobble you need to know your facts a little better before you comment because the Missile warning system on aircraft IRL detects incoming missiles guided or unguided including RPGs.

In response to Moszeusz6pi couldn't you just Mute the first lock warning?
Then you could make it the aircraft receives the second Lock on sound track only once the trigger is pressed.
Example:
The SAM operator begins to make a lock-The first lock on warning is now muted (ie. the pilot is unaware)
The SAM operator makes a Lock on-The second lock on warning is now muted (ie. the pilot is unaware)
The SAM operator presses the primary fire button(left mouse) which un-mutes the second lock on warning (ie. the pilot is now aware) and the missile is launched.
What i am wondering is if this is possible.

[Moszeusz6Pl]

We have already muted first lock warning, so you only hear scond lock warning, when missile is locked. As I posted before, we can't change when which warning is played without hacking, which I doubt somebody will do. If it would be so easy, we would do it long time ago.

[waldov]

We have already muted first lock warning, so you only hear scond lock warning, when missile is locked. As I posted before, we can't change when which warning is played without hacking, which I doubt somebody will do. If it would be so easy, we would do it long time ago.

Sorry for another idea but could you make it that the locking on and lock on sound is just 1 track. IE. you aim at a heat source for 5 seconds and then when you lock on it is still on the first track(so it is still muted to the pilot) instead of switching to the second track when you actually lock. Then by pressing the trigger you activate the sound Track for a lock on.
To put it into other words:
Locking target-First track (pilot hears nothing.SAM operator hears buzz.)
3-5 seconds -First track continues
Target locked -First track continues but after 5 seconds the track makes a lock on noise for the SAM operator.
Trigger pressed-Second track begins (pilot receives now receives the typical warning.)

So basically when a lock on is made the actual track doesn't change but instead the sound of the first track does(which is mute for the pilot still)

[Kerryburgerking]

Made some changes just 5 minutes ago:
The success rate of killing a chopper via AA-hipfiring in v1.0 will be very low.

Will there be any change in successful kills with a lock on using MANPADS? Because today it's nearly impossible to shoot down an attackheli unless the pilot decides to go low or the pilot doesn't find his flare button.

[Quobble]

no, it is possible to get kills with the pads.
I am actually working on a tutorial video about all the AA object we have in PR a the moment.

Many people just look at the aircraft and fire if they get the go sound, but thats not what you should do.

Always check what the aircraft is doing, look what direction its turning and also check where its flares are going.

then you can adjust your aiming far the the side of the aircraft and hit it even if its trying to maneuver away

as i said; video is inbound

[K4on]

Always check what the aircraft is doing, look what direction its turning and also check where its flares are going.

Know your enemy

video is inbound

looking forward to it

[Moszeusz6Pl]

I'm writing again, that we can't change when which lock sound can play. We can only change it sound.

[Stemplus]

Can it be reversed back to the way it was in vanilla that AAs wouldn't blow up on flares and if you'd fire an AA unguided it would fly straight up into the sky?

bump bump?

[Mineral]

Can it be reversed back to the way it was in vanilla that AAs wouldn't blow up on flares and if you'd fire an AA unguided it would fly straight up in the sky?

I thought it was realistic for AA to explode if they hit the flare? Although I'm no export on Ground to air missiles. Although for Air to air missiles it should blow right?

[Stemplus]

Yeah iirc they have proximity fusses, but in PR one missile will kill a helicopter 100m away, while one will blow up next to it and won't do any damage

[Rhino]

Can it be reversed back to the way it was in vanilla that AAs wouldn't blow up on flares and if you'd fire an AA unguided it would fly straight up into the sky?

The AA dose not detonate on a flare, in fact I often fire a missile to flare, then when it passes it it finds the real target but you can only do that in a very few cases where the flare is direct between you and the target.

The reason why it seems sometimes that the AA blows up on a flare is actually because the flare is near the aircraft (normally a chopper) and it detects itself going further away from that target (not the one its tracking, being a flare) so it detonates causing minimal damage to the aircraft.

But if you fire a missile at a flare no where near any aircraft, you will see it dose not blow up on it and just passes by it.

If we "revered back to vBF2 method", which basically would mean we would have to decrease the detonation radius of our missiles the missile would just pass by a chopper without exploding if its tracking a flare near a chopper/aircraft.

[waldov]

Is there going to be un-jammable missiles as in ones that aren't thrown off by flares?

[Rhino]

Not ones that track the target themselves no.

We may look into some Manual command to line of sight (MCLOS) AA weapons in the future, mainly for the Blowpipe Missile for PR:F which would be basically guiding the missile onto the target manually in the same way you guide a TOW AT missile onto a tank but we will need to see if its workable on the BF2 engine at all first.

[waldov]

Not ones that track the target themselves no.

We may look into some Manual command to line of sight (MCLOS) AA weapons in the future, mainly for the Blowpipe Missile for PR:F which would be basically guiding the missile onto the target manually in the same way you guide a TOW AT missile onto a tank but we will need to see if its workable on the BF2 engine at all first.

Awesome the first thing i actually thought of as MCLOS was the RBS-70 and Mistral which could make an interesting alternative AA defense (well technically they are actually CLOS ,command line of sight, but same concept anyway.) it Would be nice to diversify air defenses so mappers can justify putting in more CAS assets. The only problem i could think of would be the fact that pilots would not receive warnings when they are engaged by CLOS missiles even though missile defense systems on aircraft IRL would detect them incoming.

RBS-70

Mistral

Blowpipe

The Mistral and RBS-70 actually have the same stands as the AA defense in game. PRs air to ground and ground to air conflict has a lot of potential and could be very interesting especially as it is many players favorite aspect in PR (me being one of them.)

[Rhino]

There is also the Semi-automatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance system which the Starstreak HVM missile (Which the Stormer HVM fires and also the Starstreak LML which should be the Brits modern deployable AA ingame) as well as the Rapier Missile System






But ye, the Stormer HVM which is ingame as the Brits Medium ADV which currently has its missiles lock onto targets are per other missiles. In time I want to try doing a CLOS guidance system to see how well it can work and then possibly implement it onto a few weapons if it can work out well but ye, that all depends if players can first aim it well at targets and it can hit them, especially jets with the combined trying to counter the server lag etc.

As for giving jets a lock on tone, it should be possible in the same way in vBF2 if you point a (Heavy) Anti-Tank weapon (but not actually locking onto it) at a tank then it tells the driver of the tank that he's being targeted with the bleep and HUD icon etc, should be possible to do the same with jets if the AA weapon points at him.