Admins vs bad SLs

[doop-de-doo]

I know that this might feel like a touchy subject for some, but this should almost be considered in the not-knowing-how-to-fly, or asset-wasting categories.

When you are on a team that has a rogue squad, not necessarily a squad that is fragmented, as that is hard to be accountable for (bad spawns, deaths, untimely revives, getting cut-off, in-laws , etc), but where that squad is working together with their SL on some totally worthless endeavor.

This isn't a case of some guy running around taking down enemy FSBs, but rather an entire squad wholly commited to estranging themselves from the rest of the team effort.

This is something that admins should step up to the plate and accept responsibility for. I've seen well organized ventures go down in flames because of this kind of behavior.

Now, I'll stress that I'm not talking about people who misjudge their assault or defense and everyone on the squad dies, that will happen no matter how good the SL. I'm only talking about griefing by not being assisting the team at the current objectives.

Admins, USE resign!!! It's a feature, not a bug. Tell them that they have been disbanded, if you have to. Chalk it up to education.

Post edit: The OP does not promote any kind of kick or ban as solution for this kind of situation, unless the player (any player) is breaking server rules.

If you are having a hard time comprehending the OP's post. Here is a real scenario that has happened.


Infantry Layer. That squad was there for the WHOLE match. Oh, and we [RU Army] lost. As soon as we would get the flag Neutral, the Militia would come right back and take it over. That squad at objective 3 had 2 kills. It should have been disbanded.

(Rephrased)
SLs that take their 6-man squads for 30-minute "special missions". In the meanwhile, their team is getting defeated and their follow officers are asking these SLs for their help and man-power, but these SLs do nothing to help team where it is really needed.

[chrisweb89]

Agreed, a bad SL is one thing, at least they are trying and dieing near the fight. Then there is the guy that takes his 6 man squad for a 30 minute special missions as the team is getting pushed back and asking for help, and he does nothing about it.

[ryan d ale]

so is building advanced FOBs a waste of time?

Is driving supplies to future locations a waste of time?

Is cutting off enemy reinforcements (even if they are armour) a waste of time?

People need to communicate what they're doing rather than having some people assume they are on a 'special mission' or whatever that entails.

PR is PR not MOUT SIM (to simplify my point).

[Gracler]

so is building advanced FOBs a waste of time?

Is driving supplies to future locations a waste of time?

If you bring 6 man squad to do it as the OP suggest... yes! your off mission doing something 1 man can do.

Is cutting off enemy reinforcements (even if they are armour) a waste of time?

If it means that enemy infantry is capturing a flag = minus 30 point min.... yes... using 20% of your forces will 9 out of 10 times mean that you lose flags in the process.

People need to communicate what they're doing rather than having some people assume they are on a 'special mission' or whatever that entails.

PR is PR not MOUT SIM (to simplify my point).

The mentality of a lot of players seems to be.... I can do what I want..... someone else will get the flags.... and then when someone is not going for the flag the same person rage about it in team-chat.

there is too many players wasted on mini-squads like HAT-sniper team... Sniper-medic team... CAS (being without an aircraft running HAT-sniper or whatever they want), players leaching marksman,AR,LAT off armor squads, and the "leftovers" squad with no goal to send out a 6 man squad on a fancy "Special" mission like ambush or whatever... Even a 6 man mortar squad is a waste of players unless if the mortar fob is in a good position to spawn at so it has to be defended.


Ambushes can be done effectively by 2 man squads... 1 grab a hat and an ammo truck... the other grab an engineer kit. or sniper kit.


I think that Squad-leaders should be free to decide whatever they wanna do with the squad they have.... but if they are 6 man and just taking care of there own business the squad-leader should be resigned by an admin for teamwork failure.

Smaller squads that are doing weird off mission stuff should also be resigned or kicked the same way people that are afk gets kicked, granted that the server is full and other players are wanting to join and do there job.

[Bluedrake42]

If admins start disbanding squads because they don't agree with their tactics, the servers WILL die and players will move to servers that don't do that

players should be allowed to do what they want as long as they don't A: break server rules B: waste assets or C: teamkill

Sometimes I want to do awesome specops stuff behind enemy lines, sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesnt... sometimes I'd rather do a full frontal assault... ultimately I'm saying its not up to admins to dictate how I play, as long as I'm playing by the rules

Edit: also if a team is doing poorly, they will lose... and hopefully squads doing useless things will try and find better things to do... you can't try and force people to be good players, ultimately they should try and fail... and eventually understand that working as a team is the best option

[Gracler]

If admins start disbanding squads because they don't agree with their tactics, the servers WILL die and players will move to servers that don't do that

There are servers that enforce teamwork and they are quite popular it seems since most PR players enjoy teamwork, since PR is all about teamwork right?. I've never seen those servers die because a squad is disbanded, but the same type of servers are good at vacuuming/banning people who have messed around too much and that creates a smaller player base, I guess making the survival weaker.

At PR 1.0 the player base (returning players) will hopefully mean that the quality will get better and admins can afford to kick more useless squad-leaders so they can run and hide on other "do what you like, that serves no purpose" servers.

Personally I have been on the receiving end of an admin that disagreed with my current mission, but after explaining what I was doing it was solved. Admins are humans after all and as long as you respond to them they are mostly reasonable. The people that get kicked or resigned are the ones that seems to be disrespectful or ignoring warnings. Don't forget your pissing in the admin's pool... not the other way around.

[velocity]

Essentially, you are asking admins to micro-manage squads.

We already have a few admins in our community that are egocentric power trippers. No need to give them a reason to kick half the team.

On the occasion I play PR, it is because I actually want to play the game. Not sit in the server for 3 hours going !k Squad 1 You are not contributing to the team how I want you too.

[camo]

We already have a few admins in our community that are egocentric power trippers. No need to give them a reason to kick half the team.

Well said.

[saXoni]

so is building advanced FOBs a waste of time?

Yes it is.

[doop-de-doo]

I never mentioned micromanaging. The ones that are egocentric are already well aware of their powers. I'm talking to the admins who feel shy of taking that responsibility and enforcing some level of standard.

[chrisweb89]

On the occasion I play PR, it is because I actually want to play the game. Not sit in the server for 3 hours going !k Squad 1 You are not contributing to the team how I want you too.

When I play PR I prefer to not be the only useful squad within 500m of a flag in play, or soon to be in play. I have and will continue to leave servers when I team is beyond the point of saving. Nothing makes me rage more than a squad doing shit all while the rest of the team fights 26 vs 32 because their teammates can't figure out how flags work.

Ryan, most of those jobs can be completed by 1 or 2 people, which I don;t have an issue with, its a SL wasting 6 people to doa 2-3 person job. Please if you are a squad member of a SL who wants to walk around as far away from any flags with a 6 man squad as the team asks for help, leave that squad and encourage more to leave. That is the one real soultion to stupid SLs and their dumb ideas.

[K4on]

commander rule for the win.

[Murphy]

Commander rules are ok and all, but there is always the chance that someone will jump into comm chair just to allocate assets to their buddies. I have seen this a fair bit on servers with commander rules, and on it's own this isn't such a big problem but the side effect is having a commander who doesn't actually command his team.

I agree with OP and many points brought up, this is a pretty good topic to bring awareness too imho. I remember a Kashan round where this ding-dong took his entire inf squad (one of two 6 man infantry squads on the team, the rest of us were assets or scraps of infantry squads) off to the top of the B-D 2-3 hill tops on the far north west of the map. He claimed to be holding the north and even when admins started to rip on him about wasting one of the most valuable assets our team has, infantry, he defied the entire team just to be a spiteful noober. He stayed there counting off every kill him or his squad got into team chat to show us how he killed 1 tank, 2 bradleys, and a chopper or two. We lost that round quite badly after a 30-40 minute stalemate that could easily have been broken had that SL thought of the bigger picture or at least listened to his teammates.

[K4on]

Commander rules are ok and all, but there is always the chance that someone will jump into comm chair just to allocate assets to their buddies. I have seen this a fair bit on servers with commander rules, and on it's own this isn't such a big problem but the side effect is having a commander who doesn't actually command his team.

->you could exclude this case by rules.
for our server it works well.

[Murphy]

I'm sure most of us would agree that your server is one of the better administrated ones, and as such could present a great example for some slightly less then vigilant community admins. Unfortunately there is no real way to regulate such a seemingly minor hiccup besides having each admin take a few moments to assess the squads motives (not easy all the time) and judge their tasking as crucial for victory or a waste of time. This could mean swapping teams to investigate further and I know admins will do this but begrudgingly. It sucks for admins to resort to microing a squad but if such an incident occurs you can be sure the rest of the team SLs will be quite vocal about "Sq 7 being useless in M13k7".

I feel as long as admins realize this isn't a constant issue but rather a once in a few days type deal it should be fine. The guys going off and sabotaging supply lines, or flanking wide to take the next objectives defenses down shouldn't being doing so with a full squad (unless the situation permits, IE: one squad is capping a flag and it makes sense to move up to be in the next cap ASAP). Don't forget that you can build sneaky FOBs with 2 guys, hell I've taken to doing it by myself because I've watched Webcole and Alfa do it soooo freaking often it seems like the way to do it.

PS - 6 man logistic/recon/sabotage squads are the biggest waste of the most valuable resource in the game.

[Heavy Death]

As someone said; Loose admins means you are fan favourite, strict admins means quality gameplay but problem to get the server up to numbers.

Only unification of rules would equal some sort of evnness, but even then, its up to admins on how they react... And unification will never happen.

[Souls Of Mischief]

If admins start disbanding squads because they don't agree with their tactics, the servers WILL die and players will move to servers that don't do that

It's already happening. To some extent, the dickheads behind DDOS are at fault, as well.

[sweedensniiperr]

What you didn't take into consideration is that someone else will take the Squad Leader role. And what says the new squad leader is better? Should the admins keep rotating until everyone is happy? No man, good thought but not possible at all.

What would be a better solution is merging squads and preventing locked squads. This way if a squadleader is bad the squadmembers can simply change squad.

[doop-de-doo]

Keeping an eye out for rogue squads requires even less admin monitoring in comparison to the Commander rule (with all respect to what already works for some servers).

Never did I mention !k or any other beyond !resign. I've been resigned before and know what it's like. You learn to better manage your assets or get out. The only problem is that no-one said I was being resigned, probably to avoid drama. They could have added the reason as a heads-up to make the process quicker. Better that one oaf gets a bit butt-hurt than a whole team get slapped in the face.

It's not going to stop the guy from trying if it really matters to him, but he knows that at that exact moment his decisions failed the team.

No. This is not about micromanaging. This is about suppressing persistant poor team-asset management and boosting quality control a little.

No to micromanaging.
Yes to better quality.

[emmanuel15]

If admins start disbanding squads because they don't agree with their tactics, the servers WILL die and players will move to servers that don't do that

players should be allowed to do what they want as long as they don't A: break server rules B: waste assets or C: teamkill

i don't think the server will die like that...i mean it's cool to do some spec ops missions it's awsome but doing it without supporting in anyway is just stupid and waste of assets(which is against server rules) and it really against rules cause think about it: take a fully geared 6 man squads LAT's, MG's and shit, go camp a corner in a 4x4 km map for 30 mins just to ambush a truck and in the end also some may die don't you think that's waste of assets?! that's definatly waste of assets like the LAT kit the "Spec Ops" sqd took and they don't even get a chance to use it while 2+ squads playing the flags gets raped by an APC cause all LAT kit has been issued that's waste of assets and beyond...don't get me wrong "Spec Ops" squads can do alot as long as they not lead only by 2 guys who think they are special to do "Spec Ops" while the rest in the squad just waste assets(kits,from personal experience you) and you may loose in your'e server but if something like that becomes enforced and takes away the useless "Spec Ops" (those that actully help in a way even if they die alot may stay) the gameplay will become rather more better and match may become even more competing and balanced which is what i belive would happen.