HAT vs APC

[saamohod]

It appears that Heavy Antitank Kit cannot one-shot destroy an APC in 1.0.
Not sure if intended or an overlook.
Chinese HAT vs side armour of Militia APC (not sure about the name of it, probably BMP) on Black Gold. One hit doesn't kill the APC.
Same happened on Fools Road, British HAT shot at Militia APC(probably the same model as on Black Gold). Side armour hit, the APC survived again and continued fighting.
If intended, then I am just curious how many hits LAT would require to kill an APC if HAT takes more than one? Or how many HAT hits would require to disable a tank (at least three according to simple arithmetics), if at least two hits are required to kill an APC?

[ComradeHX]

Btw, from personal experience, LAT to the side of APC = it does not even smoke.

It takes at least two shots to kill APC with LAT.

[DesmoLocke]

It takes at least two shots to kill APC with LAT.

As intended.

[ComradeHX]

As intended.

You don't say...

Except one shot does not even make it smoke; so APC keeps moving on to kill your entire team.

[Psyrus]

I'm not 100% sure but I recall seeing that they were being buffed to give them a little more use as actual personnel carriers.

[Viki]

As intended.

Why exactly is it intended? I thought the effective shots in the rear were a punishment and a lesson to the APC's operators for getting in such a situation where it is possible for the enemy to shoot them in the side. Now I believe the APC's can be used as a light tank again and it can roam quite freely through and behind enemies without much fear.

edit:

Also the front armor of most APCs got increased, so shooting a LAT at that position is not a good idea.

Killing a medium APC with one LAT shot at the side doesnt kill it aswell completely.
IF you are lucky you have already disabled it. Another shot and it is history for sure.

So everything seems to be just as it's supposed to be. And slightly better. All I needed to know, over and out. ->

[K4on]

Nope, HAT damage is fine as it is. I checked the code.
But to really make sure there isn't something strange, I've tested it "live" aswell:


Also the front armor of most APCs got increased, so shooting a LAT at that position is not a good idea.


Killing a medium APC with one LAT shot at the side doesnt kill it aswell completely.
IF you are lucky you have already disabled it. Another shot and it is history for sure.

[40mmrain]

I found AT weapon damage values to be pretty good, except maybe the HAT a tad strong against tanks

Im more in favour of range and accuracy nerfs. For example, in PR 0.98 the SRAW and ERYX are effective weapons at 1000m+, but in real life, according to wikipedia no greater than 700m, and the ERYX 600m. A lot of their power is derived from their insane range and guidance ability. Proper damage values to me are a better balancing solution rather than nerfing the damage to low numbers like this. The AT kits should be good weapons to defend your squad for armour attack, and making them powerful and short range, rather than weakened but still with sniping capabilities is conducive to that. Nerfing range just allows armour the ability to adapt by shooting at the longest ranges they can. The greatest evidence for this is the fact that LAT weapons despite being so widely available in PR, especially with the DB mod were responsible for a SMALL fraction of the kills even on very light targets like the scimitar, because theyre only useful when the enemy gets way too offensive and thinks theyre invincible. The same can be true for HAT kits where theyre excellent HARD 1 hit kill counters at closer ranges, but not jack in the box 800m sniping tools

ALso, the number of armour pieces per side is quite high, and the player count is upped meaning there is a still high armour frequency but a lower HAT frequency (2 per side of 50 men, not 32), meaning that armour grouping up can easily trump HAT kits, and that there will simply be too much armour for 2 HAT kits to arrest completely. Another change hurting HAT supremacy is multiple flags at once. Now there can be flags that are simply free of portable heavy AT.

HAT being quicker to take out and scope help it being a weapon to defend against enemy armour as well.

Damage values shouldnt be nerfed, but rather the range and accuracy to balance the HAT is best, I think.

[Spush]

K4on I posted this in our bug tracker so take a look at what I have to say.

[saamohod]

K4on;1911927']Nope, HAT damage is fine as it is. I checked the code.
But to really make sure there isn't something strange, I've tested it "live" aswell:


Also the front armor of most APCs got increased, so shooting a LAT at that position is not a good idea.


Killing a medium APC with one LAT shot at the side doesnt kill it aswell completely.
IF you are lucky you have already disabled it. Another shot and it is history for sure.

Thanx for taking your time to test it for yourself. But the decisive difference is that the HAT you were using is not the one that is (or was before 1.0.24.0) issued to Chinese and British forces. It's called HAT from the menu, but you don't get these guided rocket launchers. The kits you are given are what used to be called LAT in v0.98. That's probably the whole point.

[ComradeHX]

Killing a medium APC with one LAT shot at the side doesnt kill it aswell completely.
IF you are lucky you have already disabled it. Another shot and it is history for sure.

But I have only fired at side of APC(BTR-80 30mm) not trying to kill in one shot; but trying to get its alarm to go up and make it rtb.
It was not even smoking and went on to pew pew rest of my team(wish I was on the other side because by then all the AAVP were dead).

[Henrique_Dalben]

The Milita BMP-1 is really OP right now. I fired a LAT at the rear armor from 80m away and it didn't even started smoking. And on the matter of APCs, the 25mm cannon from the LAV is useless, over 25 rounds fired at the rear of a BTR-80 and, it too, didn't even started smoking. Same thing while hitting the cow or the havoc, 10-12 hits and nothing. You'd think a dozen 25mm shells through the pilot's cockpit would bring him down...

[K4on]

Yeah, I investigated a track bug. Shooting at the tracks didnt do almost any damage before.
This got fixed for the next version.

[ComradeHX]

Yeah, I investigated a track bug. Shooting at the tracks didnt do almost any damage before.
This got fixed for the next version.

Lol it was almost like World of Tanks. (tracks = spaced armour = much lower HEAT penetration potential)


So is the fix just making tracks take as much damage as shooting on side armour?

[K4on]

IRL if you shoot a LAT the tracks, the APC is mostly disabled.
However, the canon and engine might be still active. Also the passengers might be still alive.

As we cant proper simulate that in BF2 engine atm, we rook an average value of the side amour for the tracks, as the tracks are usually at the sides.

[Sold.Lagares]

Mmmmm... I fired a LAT and it finally explode after a while and yesterday afternoon (playing as china) I fired a russian HAT rpg against a russian tank in black gold, from the last flor of a T building (projectile deviation was amazing btw). I hit it right on the top and It took like 1 or 1:30 min to finally explode, meanwhile it was burning and smoking.

just amazing guys
=)