=HOG= (North America)

Tequila · Post by **Tequila** » 2013-07-11 22:22

Yesterday, for example, me and my buddy got teamkilled on The Falklands by a jet when we were manning the Scorpion.

Nothing happened because theres no way for admins to see if it was an accident or not. I've blown up my fair share of friendly targets and none of them were intentional. Fake lazed targets, bad intel, unlucky shots, etc are all a part of the game. If it was intentional and you can prove it, then the admins can take action, but theres really nothing we can do for a tk that might have been an accident.

Prevtzer · Post by **Prevtzer** » 2013-07-12 09:21

ecfelix wrote:If it was intentional and you can prove it, then the admins can take action, but theres really nothing we can do for a tk that might have been an accident.

Yes you can. You can respond and ask the guy to explain it. His explanation was to leave the server as soon as I had to type it into all-chat. That's not what an innocent guy does. Instead of arguing here and defending incompetent people you should put in some effort to make them more competent.

Inspektura43 · Post by **Inspektura43** » 2013-07-12 09:41

Last night on Silent Eagle our cow got baseraped by a tank in main when the flag was non-cappable, I did !r twice in time of like 2 minutes.(!r russian cow got baseraped by german tank in main)
No response from the 2 admins at the time.

Otherwise, thank you for keeping HOG full all the time its one of the few servers with people in.

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-12 09:56

Prevtzer wrote:Yes you can. You can respond and ask the guy to explain it. His explanation was to leave the server as soon as I had to type it into all-chat. That's not what an innocent guy does. Instead of arguing here and defending incompetent people you should put in some effort to make them more competent.

We are not arguing, we are simply trying to explain to you, as experienced admins, how we can or cannot handle this. The person who tk'd you and then left the server was probably quite embarrassed for failing so hard

When they leave the server there is not much we can do, unfortunately.

Prevtzer · Post by **Prevtzer** » 2013-07-12 10:19

Ok, I'll just drop it because you obviously don't get it.

FoxtrotFaulkner · Post by **FoxtrotFaulkner** » 2013-07-12 12:00

Prevtzer wrote:Ok, I'll just drop it because you obviously don't get it.

Ohhhh ok, you want us to reconnect the player you're accusing, interrogate him about where the intel he got, laze came from, etc, then ban him because you spammed the report button x20. Crystal clear now on my end, Prevtzer.

Onil · Post by **Onil** » 2013-07-12 18:40

Instead of trying to defend your admin's honor by making stupid interpretations of the feedback you're given, you should simply realize one small thing: A proper active admin will give priority to administrating his server than to playing the game and ignoring the reports until something gets spammed over and over again. If you try to admin and play at same time, you will suck at either one or the other... perhaps even both.

I usually advise that the admin rights get assigned to a specific account, different from the one you use to play with, that way you are only listed as admin if you have joined the server mostly for that purpose. Being an admin is not suppose to be fun... its a job that requires a certain level of dedication and responsibility! If you're a server admin and are always playing the game in a serious manner, then you will not be able to do your job properly and will fail at supporting the reports and requests, which is what happens most of the times on your server.

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-12 19:04

Onil wrote:I usually advise that the admin rights get assigned to a specific account, different from the one you use to play with, that way you are only listed as admin if you have joined the server mostly for that purpose.

How would you then advise we handle a player disconnecting from the server after accidentally teamkilling armor?

Onil wrote:Instead of trying to defend your admin's honor by making stupid interpretations of the feedback you're given

Insulting us won't get you anywhere, Onil.

Keep in mind that people abuse the !r on a daily basis. You should come and admin on our server for a few weeks and see what a shitstorm of !r it is, if you pardon my french. Then maybe you would have some appreciation for the work we put into it instead of coming here and insulting us.

Onil · Post by **Onil** » 2013-07-12 19:47

I may have no experience in administrating a PR server, I was however the main admin in one of the most popular UT99 servers for 3 years and we had a similar reporting system. So I am aware how it can get misused by the players.

I'm not insulting anyone, I'm merely stating that your (and most admin's) interpretations of feedback are always focused on how you can use that material to defend yourselves, no matter what the topic might be. And that is an absurd way of dealing with feedback.

brezmans wrote:How would you then advise we handle a player disconnecting from the server after accidentally teamkilling armor?

If you re-read the feedback, you will notice that the guy only disconnected once the report was made via allchat, and that only happened because the reports posted using !r in private chat didn't get any response. This basically means that if the admins had not ignored the report, they might have had the time to actually deal with the situation.

Instead, you focus on the absurd part and use it as ammunition to try and prove that others are wrong. I don't expect you to do anything to someone who has disconnected after supposedly tking by accident, I expect you to reply to a proper report before the guy disconnects, perhaps then you might be able to figure out if it was indeed an accident or on purpose. Even if you don't figure it out, the simple fact that you replied promptly makes all the difference as at least the report is not being ignored. However in most cases, the admins can't be bothered to reply.

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-12 20:28

Onil wrote: I'm not insulting anyone, I'm merely stating that your (and most admin's) interpretations of feedback are always focused on how you can use that material to defend yourselves, no matter what the topic might be. And that is an absurd way of dealing with feedback.

How about we look at what the intentions are of the people providing 'feedback' here? There are a few ways to run a server, there is no one set way of doing things. We have always applied some 'tough love' principles to try and weed out the bad elements in the playerbase and we still continue some version of this to this day.
The majority of the people posting here have a problem with that as they are usually on the other end of the stick. Only a small part provides feedback that we can work with.

Some examples:

Onil, you and dogmaster posted about an admin of us that kinda went rogue. This is good feedback as it gives us something we can act on. We have talked to this person, we have talked to dogmaster and we have resolved it. Please continue providing us this as it goes against what we stand for and what we are trying to achieve.
The feedback of Prevtzer is not something that we are willing to act on because of the previously mentioned things that people seem to forget to read, so I will state it here once again: we had every reason to assume that this teamkill was accidental and that Prevtzer was in fact just frustrated because of the teamkill and thus wanted us to kick him. We chose not to go into it because of the reason listed here. It is not a mistake on our part, this is an intentional filter on the reports that has arosen out of experience with these situations. If the same thing would happen right now on the server I would do the same thing. I would make a mental note of it and take an active interest if it happened again with the same player, but it didn't...

There is a difference between what you think we should do because of the way certain other servers have done it in the past or do it right now and what we are actually trying to achieve or what our principles are.

Also, may I remind you that what we are doing is kinda working? I don't want to boast but this is not our first week running a server, these systems have been in place for years and we have great success with it. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean we should change our ways.

To sum it up again: Just because you want a server to be run by a set of principles, doesn't mean that a server being run on a different set of principles is doing something wrong. When you say that we are using this feedback or twisting it in order to defend ourselves, you are forgetting the possibility that we might not want to run things the way you propose. It's one of the reasons that people either love or hate the HOG server. We have no interest in persuading you of our ways of doing things, but please respect us enough to leave us be if you disagree with how we do them.

York · Post by **York** » 2013-07-12 21:07

LOL brez, If I had a medal, I'd send it to you. You sir, have FAR more patience than I would have...

I love the assumptions that are made here

I think you should invite Haley here...

Pronck · Post by **Pronck** » 2013-07-12 22:50

York don't throw more petrol on the fire. I must say that I had quite some enjoyful rounds on the server. The only thing that bothered me at some moments was the high amount of Muttrah bu that's probably due to the roots of the server and the hight amount of Asad Khal in the votes, but that's just a small thing. I just had to get used to the server's atmosphere.

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-13 09:25

York, I don't mind trying to explain what we do and have been doing for years as long as it's an informed and rational discussion.

I fully realize that people will disagree with most of what I say here or throw it back at us, but after all this is a public feedback thread where people can freely discuss what they like or don't like about the server. I'm trying to inform them about what we are aiming for and those who wish post here to inform us about what we do wrong in their eyes. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it's civil.

It's nice to hear you enjoy the server, Pronk. And yes, our roots still lie in Muttrah and quite a portion of the community that plays with us still has love for that map.

Onil · Post by **Onil** » 2013-07-13 19:39

Brez, that was a nice and detailed explanation to how you run things... but it makes it look like your admins simply don't care or don't pay attention in multiple situations.

So the only thing I'm criticizing is that even if you choose not to act on a certain report, you should still reply to the person making the report so that he does not think that it is simply being ignored or unnoticed. It is quite simple really...

You may for example reply that the admin will only evaluate the situation if it repeats itself, in the case of a TK. That would be preferable to the current way of simply ignoring it without saying anything.

89DIESEL · Post by **89DIESEL** » 2013-07-17 20:37

One of the best servers! Good admins! Good variety in maps. I play in this server as much as i can.

And yes Brezmans we still LOVE Muttrah! at least i do!

FoxtrotFaulkner · Post by **FoxtrotFaulkner** » 2013-07-18 12:28

Thanks for the kind words, Diesel.

DesmoLocke · Post by **DesmoLocke** » 2013-07-21 08:58

The lack of admins on at 2300 UTC-10 is kind of a bummer. Playing Kozelsk two times in a row isn't as fun as it sounds

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-21 09:18

Hey Desmo,

that is indeed the time where admin coverage is at its lowest point. I'll see if I can do something about that right now. Thanks for playing.

P.S.: What's not to like about Kozelsk two times in a row? It's simple math: Kozelsk = fun. 2 x Kozelsk = 2 x fun?

brezmans · Post by **brezmans** » 2013-07-21 20:48

=HOG= now has a new 1gbit server located in New York instead of Kansas City. You can find it under =HOG= Mixed Maps NY, it's up and running right now and we will be using it to replace our old one if there are no major issues. You should experience a lower ping, especially if you're from Europe, and generally less lag, please let us know if you experience any issues with the new server.

Edit: we also set up a few more admins to cover the late nights/early mornings and are working to add more.

L4gi · Post by **L4gi** » 2013-07-21 22:23

Nice! Dat ping. :O

=HOG= (North America)

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