Helicopter Wheels #2b

[notmyingamename]

is it possible to have the engines idle to a negative value (relative to what they are now)? for instance, an idle cow has always inched forward. is it possible to cut the idle values down below the 1%?

at 1%, vehicle is essentially powered off. at 2% would reflect the idle values as they are now and so on. the transition between 1% and 2% would be a lot more convenient than the time required to warm-up

[Rhino]

Maybe some kind of brake could deploy when heli have 0 alt and speed? Like mi-24, but brakes instead.

One of the first things I tried was adding a dummy spring to a dummy landing gear that would come down when at low speeds and on the ground, in the hope that the spring, which was coded not to rotate like the other wheels would stop the chopper, but it only slightly slowed it down and caused/had other problems...

[rPoXoTauJIo]

So if there no chances to fix rolling from heli side, maybe it better to fix it from map side?
On vietnam maps i saw helipads that preventing hueys from sliding, maybe the same(maybe invisible) can be implemented to all vPR helipads?

[Tarranauha200]

Is there any way to apply constant opposite force to the chopper to counter that movement forward?

[Rhino]

So if there no chances to fix rolling from heli side, maybe it better to fix it from map side?
On vietnam maps i saw helipads that preventing hueys from sliding, maybe the same(maybe invisible) can be implemented to all vPR helipads?

Yes this is the fall back plan to make an invisible "speed bump" round the outside of a helipad but it might have to be quite large in order to stop choppers rolling over it which may cause a few problems...

Is there any way to apply constant opposite force to the chopper to counter that movement forward?

Possibly with another engine but that's more networkables, which some choppers have none to spare and would require a lot of trial and error to get it just right for each and every chopper, and then would only work on flat surfaces with also making the chopper roll backwards before the main engine has warmed up, as for the first few secs while the engine is warming up on the chopper it doesn't move currently.

[Rhino]

bumpy, only 75 votes so far, anyone else try the wheeled choppers in the beta?

[Felix]

In my opinion it should be removed because it doesn't change the gameplay in any positive way and isn't really realistic either at least not with the current taxi physics. It worked just fine in 0.98 and if you absolutely wanted to taxi around in the base you could do it 1 feet off the ground like most choppers do in real life anyways. In my opinion this feature is only there to look cool which in the end it doesnt even do. If you could remove the "engine" in the wheels but keep the wheels ability to roll and add some way to lock the wheels it would work out better and be more realistic, but as I understood this isn't possible. Afaik wheeled helicopters in real life just like jets and planes don't have an engine controlling the wheels, but they do have a wheel brake.

[Rhino]

In my opinion it should be removed because it doesn't change the gameplay in any positive way and isn't really realistic either at least not with the current taxi physics. It worked just fine in 0.98 and if you absolutely wanted to taxi around in the base you could do it 1 feet off the ground like most choppers do in real life anyways. In my opinion this feature is only there to look cool which in the end it doesnt even do.

I'm sorry but on the realism point for wheeled helicopters, that just isn't true. It may be true for skid helicopters but for wheeled ones, they frequently taxi out and around on their wheels. You see the Apache doing it all the time in Camp Bastion since it has to use the Helicopter Runway there to get off the ground due to the hot, thin air it can't take off easily without the runway.

If the first video below doesn't work, the second you can briefly see an Apache Taxi @ 11secs in and @ 40secs in, and even a Chinook taxing @ 1:08secs, although they normally take off and land directly onto their pads in Bastion, and you can even see a CH-53D landing on its wheels with a very slight roll @ 2:20.

If you could remove the "engine" in the wheels but keep the wheels ability to roll and add some way to lock the wheels it would work out better and be more realistic, but as I understood this isn't possible. Afaik wheeled helicopters in real life just like jets and planes don't have an engine controlling the wheels, but they do have a wheel brake.

While yes, afaik in r/l helicopters don't have engines in there wheels (and nor do jets but we do ingame), but its the only way we can give pilots any control over the wheels, as in r/l you would be able to control them much more with the main rotor than you can ingame.

We have however toned down the "taxi engine power" of the wheels for v1.0 quite a bit as it was waaaay too fast in the OB, I think we can all agree there and hopefully this should allow more control.

We haven't found any way of coding a "parking brake" as of yet, but we will keep looking.


As for the initial v1.0 release, we are going to keep this feature even thou we can't implement a "parking brake" for it, since as the poll currently stands (at the time of this posting with 80 votes), 57.5% of the votes are for keeping it, plus with the reduction in the taxi engine speed and with hopefully players learning how to use this feature to their advantage over time, that percentage should shoot up some more in the future and we will keep on looking into a method of adding a "parking brake", but its unlikely we will ever find a way to code one.

If it dose become a serious problem then we will have to review this again at a later date but on the whole we feel this feature dose more good than bad, with also the bad bits mainly being down to pilots not yet having a chance to learn/adapt to the system, and the biggest complaint of the "no-input rolling" can be solved by just having a joystick throttle.

[nAyo]

As for the initial v1.0 release, we are going to keep this feature even thou we can't implement a "parking brake" for it, since as the poll currently stands (at the time of this posting with 80 votes), 57.5% of the votes are for keeping it

This is entirely biased. 57% of the votes are for keeping it whose 3/4 are for keeping it WITH A PARKING BREAK. If you can't code a parking break, then an unbiased reading of the votes would lead you to not implementing the feature in 1.0.

I have to agree with felix on what he says, this feature brings nothing any useful, it clearly has no real interest in the game besides driving around for fun. No one will ever drive to the runway to take off like they may do IRL, it's obvious that everyone will always take off straight from the pad.

[WarEagle751]

I would use the wheels and in a way it does help keep the heli from tipping when trying to take off.

[Rhino]

This is entirely biased. 57% of the votes are for keeping it whose 3/4 are for keeping it WITH A PARKING BREAK. If you can't code a parking break, then an unbiased reading of the votes would lead you to not implementing the feature in 1.0.

The vote option your are on about is:

Yes it should be implemented, but it would be nice if a "Parking brake" could be added

Which means that they want the feature to be included with or without a parking brake or any other improvements, but they would prefer it with a parking brake which I think everyone pretty much agrees on that, a parking brake would be nice.

The option below was:

No it should not be put in, but if a "Parking Brake" could be applied I would vote Yes

Which means the option should NOT be added, UNLESS a "Parking Brake" could be coded.


The options are quite clear and if anyone voted wrongly then please say so.


BTW, at the time of this post the votes have gone up by two votes, with now 58.5% wanting it from the 57.5% from the last post.

[Tarranauha200]

Can you at least add small barriers around the helipads in main bases to stop the rolling?

[Rhino]

Can you at least add small barriers around the helipads in main bases to stop the rolling?

I did try this but wasn't able to get it to work for every single chopper and some it did far more damage than good unfortunately.

[SuperArmy]

if you want some help testing let me know. Id like to help to find out what will work best!

[Felix]

What I meant by unrealistic, rhino. Is when people are driving around in base using the choppers as cars.. Or for instance one time during the open beta we were getting chased by a su-34 and we drove into the tunnels on black gold with our wz-10. We hid inside the tunnels for a couple of minutes and a full transport truck came driving into the tunnels which we killed and drove out of the tunnels and flew back to base.
I know you love everything you create rhino and. Im not saying that you shouldn't, but lets be honest here. There is no real gameplay changing feature except for it looking a little cool and being annoying as hell...

[Rhino]

if you want some help testing let me know. Id like to help to find out what will work best!

Cheers but testing really isn't the problem, its thinking of a new way to possibly code it

What I meant by unrealistic, rhino. Is when people are driving around in base using the choppers as cars..

Which the taxi speed has been toned down somewhat since the OB. Haven't tried it yet ingame to see how much different it is since Jafar did the fix but it should be much slower now, and if still too fast, we will tone it down more with the updater so that part won't be a problem.

Or for instance one time during the open beta we were getting chased by a su-34 and we drove into the tunnels on black gold with our wz-10. We hid inside the tunnels for a couple of minutes and a full transport truck came driving into the tunnels which we killed and drove out of the tunnels and flew back to base.

Well that part is mainly unrealistic due to 1, the rotor blades having no cols allowing you to taxi into a tunnel where in r/l, they would have shattered on the edge of the tunnel (which in the future I hope we will fix but its a massive overhaul which requires a lot of work and very few ppl in the team have the skill sets required to make this change, and have other things to do) and two, the taxi speed being too fast which I talked about above allowing you to quickly get inside.

This thing also isn't new with the rolling wheels, this kinda stuff happens in v0.98 too as per this thread as just one example: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f112-p ... -down.html


On top of it I've seen lots of times choppers flying into the bunkers on Kashan too in v0.98 and before, without rolling wheels.

Again, the problem isn't the rolling wheels (although it will make it easier to do), the problem is no rotor cols.

I know you love everything you create rhino and. Im not saying that you shouldn't, but lets be honest here. There is no real gameplay changing feature except for it looking a little cool and being annoying as hell...

Not true. There is a lot of stuff I've made which I would rather forget. Like the Afghan v2 static series for just one example, which I'm doing everything I can to try and phase them out of the mod as they suck but once something gets into a map its very hard to get it out.... As well as pretty much all my old models, even maps I can think of 100s of ways I could have done them better and cringe a little sometimes when looking at them
Hell, even the new Zhi-9s I could have done much better especially when it came to how I did the 1p textures UVs etc (although still better than most other vehicle 1p models/textures) but ye, all in the learning process

Here on the other hand, even if you don't agree with me, this dose add to the gameplay/immersion IMO (although I do fly choppers with a joystick and throttle which allows me to use the wheels to their full and also sit on a helipad without any rolling since I can tweak the throttle etc), and according to the above poll the majority agrees with that.

BTW, the percentage has increased to 59% now with 88 votes.

[3ti65]

Ups i voted wrong. And i think many others have to.

Wheels are cool, but now theyre just bugged as hell, and a brake would just be a solution not to get a nitro burst on landing and rushing straight into the next rock / wall whatever.

If you cant do a brake, remove the driving stuff. Theres enough sucky pilots already, i dont want my tickets to be floating away even faster.

[Rhino]

Ups i voted wrong. And i think many others have to.

I very much doubt that a significant amount has "voted wrong by mistake"... Next time try reading the options before voting....


Anyways to repeat what I've already said:

As for the initial v1.0 release, we are going to keep this feature even thou we can't implement a "parking brake" for it, since as the poll currently stands (at the time of this posting with 80 votes), 57.5% of the votes are for keeping it, plus with the reduction in the taxi engine speed and with hopefully players learning how to use this feature to their advantage over time, that percentage should shoot up some more in the future and we will keep on looking into a method of adding a "parking brake", but its unlikely we will ever find a way to code one.

If it dose become a serious problem then we will have to review this again at a later date but on the whole we feel this feature dose more good than bad, with also the bad bits mainly being down to pilots not yet having a chance to learn/adapt to the system, and the biggest complaint of the "no-input rolling" can be solved by just having a joystick throttle.

To expand on this before the v1.0 I will be closing this topic/poll (although in all likelihood this entire area I think will be closed) and about a month or so after the v1.0 release, once everyone has had a much better chance to use this and adapt to it, I will make another topic and poll with much simpler options for those few of you who may have found the above options confusing and we will see what the result are then and if required, we can remove the feature, or even improve it further though the updater.

Happy?

[Maj.Osama]

oh man that MI-17 needs some brake ffs
I mean if you try to land on that road NorthEast of Radio flag on that new map at beta testing event , it would slide on the road and cause you too lose control ( with the front wheel up)

ps. the road was going up the hill so if you try to land it by holding the mouse to the front that what gonna happen .

[=MeRk= Morbo5131]

I voted no. While it's a nice feature to have, we don't have anything to counteract its drawbacks, ie wheel brake. Led to a lot of instability on landing, and actually forced me to reduce speed in the air before touching the ground in some cases, where a high speed landing would've otherwise been possible.

I managed to lose at least 2 choppers just sat on the pad because it sorta rolled. The forward drift that happens when idle on the deck is way more prevalent too.