[Model] Tigercat SAM (PR:F) [WIP]

[Rhino]

Ye looking good

For the nose, after baking what dose it look like if you put them back on the same SG after baking them with different SGs? I don't suspect it will fix the problem but will be interesting to see if it improves it. The nose is a tricky one since its on different UVs etc, I'm not really sure quite what you can do there other than in PS, paint flat normals just over the seams with the brush with 0% hardness and a radius that fits so it doesn't disturb too much around it while also being large enough to blend in, and then with having both on the same SG it might fix the problem but you will also loose some of the normals smoothing around there but worth trying to see if its workable

Some of your normals are a bit heavy like on the side of your thins etc and will possibly needing toning down a bit but other than that, looking good to me!

[lucky.BOY]

No, the model i put them on has same SGs as the one I baked it on, both have a hard edge there.

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I thought I'd give you an update before I leave for vacation on tomorrow, to miss out on 1.0 release :,(

Anyway, Im about finished with lowpoly of the lower part of the launcher. 2904 tris for now, though it should get a little lower after UV unwrapping as then I will find those little hidden faces on floating geometry and delete them. Anyway, pics! (blue/grey is highlopy, green is lowpoly)

[Tim270]

Lp is looking good.

One thing that caught my eye

http://i.imgur.com/xgUdUch.png

^ Those two big floaters, if you are baking them to a flat surface below, I would suggest making them flatter a bit as you will have to distort your cage quite a bit to encompass them atm, although to be honest, the warping might not be too noticeable so its worth a test bake first, then if you are having to project or manually adjust the cage out really far to catch them, scale them in a bit.

[Rhino]

Ye looking good although you wont be able to fully tell until you start baking as Tim said.

[Rhino]

Hey Lucky how's this going?

BTW one thought that just occurred to me is that you haven't made the "targeting trailer" yet, are you planning to or just forgot about it?

As part of my initial info I sent you:

Rhino']There is also a targeting trailer as well that needs to be made, which will be next to the tigercat launcher, and the player will enter control the missile from with the view from the targeting trailer, but the tigercat will turn with the trailer bubble thing, much like how the AA missiles turn with the Phalanx AA gun on the carrier defenses if you've ever been in that in vBF2. How this works you don't need to worry to much as long as you make the object realistically with the bits that should rotate, can rotate separately then the exporters/coders can do the rest


(ignore the guy sitting outside, we won't have him) - New: actually we may have him now so need to put the stool there and open it up

1st person view just needs to be a view port to look out of basically, don't really need that even but will help

Although as you pointed out later that bauble cap thing is removed and the guy is sitting out with the optics once its deployed.




Also encase you lost these PMs here they are again and for anyone else it might help

Spoiler for Old PMs:

Rhino']Hey,

Basically pretty much all the info I have for this is off the wiki and other places like that since its a bit before our MAs hehe

Sea Cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically the Tigercat is the land based version of the Sea Cat, Naval short-range surface to air missile. I believe the missiles for both the Sea Cat and Tigercat are pretty much identical, only there launch pads are different although not 100% on that.

One interesting fact that is mentioned in the wiki but goes into more detail in other places is that Britain sold these to Argentina a few years before the war as they where simply obsolete, which was pretty much proven when they didn't score any kills during the conflict (although the Sea Cat, which was still in use on British ships did score a few small kills, but was mainly used as a shore barrage weapon rather than an anti-aircraft weapon (can't remember where I read that thou but pretty sure it was the sea cat)).

There is also a targeting trailer as well that needs to be made, which will be next to the tigercat launcher, and the player will enter control the missile from with the view from the targeting trailer, but the tigercat will turn with the trailer bubble thing, much like how the AA missiles turn with the Phalanx AA gun on the carrier defenses if you've ever been in that in vBF2. How this works you don't need to worry to much as long as you make the object realistically with the bits that should rotate, can rotate separately then the exporters/coders can do the rest


(ignore the guy sitting outside, we won't have him)

1st person view just needs to be a view port to look out of basically, don't really need that even but will help

also while this weapon system was obsolete and yes, shit in r/l we will be making it so it is effective ingame for gameplay reasons so you don't need to worry about that
We may at some point try to get some kind of Command Line-Of-Sight (CLOS) working, ie, you need to steer the weapon manually into the target but wont be for the initial release and most likley wont go beyond POC as it will most likely make all the AA useless

Sorry I can't provide you with any drawings or detailed dimensions etc, for the most part you will just have to guess tbh and bits you don't have refs for possibly just make up



Have any questions or need more info/refs don't be afraid to ask and I can see what I can do but this is all what I've got at the moment and if I find any more refs, will send them to you


Cheers!

Rhino']More on this poster, typed up as much as I can from it (with your edits added on too):


Tigercat is a small and highly manoeuvrable ground to air guided missile now going into service only with the army and the RAF regiment. It is instantly ready for engaging and destroying all close-range and low-level aircraft targets. Tigercat is particularly useful for the defences of important bridges, fuel dumps and airfields.
The missile itself is very reliable and compact with its electronics equipment and explosive warhead. The Tigercat system consists of three missiles launcher and a director, each mounted on a two-wheeled trailer chassis. Both can be towed by Land-Rover vehicles over cross country.
The aimer sitting in the director bin tracks the target though binoculars and, by a guidance system connected to a radio command transmitter and computers at the rear of the trailer in charge of the control officer, he can aim and fire the missile and guide it by radio control to the target. The missile follows any evasive move by the aircraft and cannot miss. LOL
Power supplies for the system are taken from a generator which is carried on one of the towing vehicles. Reloading the three missile launcher takes less than three minutes.
Tiger has been developed and made by Short Brothers and Harland Ltd, Belfast.

Key to the Tigercat Missile
1. Fuse Head
2. High-explosive Warhead
3. Electronic Control Pack
4. Movable wings for control of pitch and direction
5. Electronic guidance pack which receives the aimers commands via a radio link transmitter
6. Rocket motor
7. Fixed fins
8. Exhaust nozzles.

Key to the Director
9. Flight controller and radio transmitter ****
10. The aimer keeps a visual track of the missile though the binoculars and guides it, via the fight controller, to its target.
11. Firing trigger
12. Elevating arm
13. Revolving director bin
13. Cables of electro-hydraulic systems to computer
15. Electronic motor drive to bin turntable
16. All motions and missile launches are controlled by a computer in charge of the control officer.
17. Power supply from towing vehicle

Key to Missile Launcher
18. Tigercat missiles ready for launching
19. Loading ramps
20. Towing arm
21. Launcher Platform
22. Trunatable
23. Hydraulic motor drive to turntable. This turns the missile horizontally through 180 degrees
25. Missile Support
26. Firing apparatus
27. Ground support leg. extended.


Looking like giant milk bottles in there weatherproof casings, the Tigercat launcher and its Land-Rover towing vehicle followed by the Director towing vehicle with power supply generator.

Rhino']Ye that would be good if you can send the corrections back

And ye you don't need to model the inside of the bubble thing, all you need to do is model a 1st person view to look out of from it, which will only be seen in the 1p model

For example here is the carrier deference with phalanx and sea sparrow missile launcher, which is pretty much the same thing your doing other than with no gun



If I switch to the 1p model all there is for the Phalanx gun is a TV screen and the gun sticking out, the rest of it has been deleted, although the Sea Sparrow launcher is still there.


and when entered, all you see is the TV screen surrounding your view from the right place, the barrels and the sea sparrow


so all you really need to model for the 1st person bit is the "binoculars" the player looks though, a bit like this:


Hope that explains it

Cheers!

As for the director, we seem to be talking about different things here:

1) The "gunner", simply the guy in the bin, that will shoot the missile and player will be in this role. I dont think that I can do the copula as on this picture: http://i.imgur.com/PuilE.jpg because to me it seems that this is a cover for transport and for deployment it would be unattached and the director would look like in the poster, with the guys head exposed.
I know i am adding work to myself here but leaving the copula on seems a bit cheap to me.

2) When looking trhough binoculars, you simply dont get a image like described on a poster or in nearly every film, you get a simple circular picture. Try it sometime if you dont believe me . This is really a cosmetic thing though.

3) The "controling officer" who sits outside of the director trail on that box and stares into the computer. I was originally referring to him.
I know we are leaving this fella out, so I am purposing to leave his workstation closed, i.e. those two metal sheets that are probably closed while transporting to cover the computer inside, leave those two closed to save on work. No. 16 on the poster.

Cheers

Rhino']

Here is the text, changes in bold.

As for the director, we seem to be talking about different things here:

1) The "gunner", simply the guy in the bin, that will shoot the missile and player will be in this role. I dont think that I can do the copula as on this picture: http://i.imgur.com/PuilE.jpg because to me it seems that this is a cover for transport and for deployment it would be unattached and the director would look like in the poster, with the guys head exposed.
I know i am adding work to myself here but leaving the copula on seems a bit cheap to me.

2) When looking trhough binoculars, you simply dont get a image like described on a poster or in nearly every film, you get a simple circular picture. Try it sometime if you dont believe me . This is really a cosmetic thing though.

3) The "controling officer" who sits outside of the director trail on that box and stares into the computer. I was originally referring to him.
I know we are leaving this fella out, so I am purposing to leave his workstation closed, i.e. those two metal sheets that are probably closed while transporting to cover the computer inside, leave those two closed to save on work. No. 16 on the poster.

Cheers

cheers,

1. Ye I think your right there, thought it was just a cutaway view but that's just the bit below it and in this ref, you can see the guy poking out like the above: http://i.imgur.com/di10y.jpg
And ye, it would be cheap, needs a basic seat in there, much like a tank couple gun area and then thing that holds the sights etc

2. Ye I know what you mean, but bincos view works better for wide screens hehe, up to you

3. It would be good I think if we had that work station open IMO. I know its extra work but we could minimize it by having it 90% texture detail for the switch board on just some big boxes with the odd modeled switch, would really add to the detail

The main thing is the launcher itself however and we could work something out without the targeting trailer but would be good to have too but if you want to wrap this project up I can understand. We could always look into making the targeting trailer later on after we've got the main launcher in

[lucky.BOY]

Thanks Tim for the feedback, ill keep an eye out for that when baking.

@Rhino, I just came back from vacation I mentioned above, im full of positive mojo and will try to put some of it into this this week .

As for the targetting trailer, I didnt really want to model it alongside the launcher, I think Ill get started on it once i finish lowpoly of the launcher. By the way, how should these two be UVed, should they share a texture sheet?

[Rhino]

@Rhino, I just came back from vacation I mentioned above, im full of positive mojo and will try to put some of it into this this week

Awesome, glad you enjoyed it

As for the targetting trailer, I didnt really want to model it alongside the launcher, I think Ill get started on it once i finish lowpoly of the launcher. By the way, how should these two be UVed, should they share a texture sheet?

Well this one is slightly tricky. For best performance and to maximise your pixel ratio of your UVs (assuming the size of each sheet would be the same combined size as one sheet) you should ideally have both the launcher and the targeting trailer on the same sheet, with the missile on its own separate sheet as we've talked about above. But this means that you need to complete the low poly models for both the launcher and the targeting trailer before you can UV them, or at least pack their UVs onto the same sheet.

But the faster way of getting this ingame would be to 100% finish the launcher (and missile) first with the launcher UVed on its own sheet, and then textured up, with the targeting trailer made after it, and added on later.
The problem with doing it this way, other than it isn't so good for performance or the UV's pixel ratio, is simply that going down this route makes it far less likley the targeting trailer will ever get finished as well, since its very common for modellers to feel they are done with a model once it gets ingame and want to move on. Not saying this will necessarily happen to you but it happens a lot of the time, even to me.

The big question is do you think you have the energy/motivation for this project to finish both the launcher and the trailer in one, with them both of the same UV sheet?
If you can it would certainly make the model that much more better and I'm also thinking about using this for one of the MEC's Heavy AA Launchers in normal PR too, just need to confirm Iran and possibly Jordan still use it although from what I can tell, Iran still has a few in operation but nothing concrete and then for it to be used along side other systems too possibly on some maps

So ye, its really depends on which way you want to go about this project at the end of the day as we can live without the targeting trailer, but I think it will make the system that much more for having one

[Rhino]

bumpy, have you been making any progress on this Lucky?

[lucky.BOY]

Just a little, really. But thanks for the reminder, i really ought to put more time into this. I'll see what I can do in the next two weeks before school kicks in.

[Rhino]

Awesome cheers!

[Rhino]

Hey lucky any chance you will be able to work more on this over the holidays? Really want to see this baby finished off since its not that far off now

[lucky.BOY]

Yeah, Ill try to get it done, this thing is taking so long its not even funny anymore.

Though I have the panzershreck for PR:WW2 where im already baking normals, so i might as well get that out of the door now that I have a proper pc and baking textuers takes 10 seconds instead of 10 minutes

But yeah, ill try to put some hours into it during xmas break, and after my exams are done in mid january ill have plenty of time to finish this baby up. For realz!

[Rhino]

Sounds good

[lucky.BOY]

Im not dead yet

Lowpoly is getting near done,the top part is still WIP, in total it should have about 8-9k tris when done.

[Adriaan]

Nice nice, looking splendid!

[Tim270]

Agreed, solid work!

I would lean to maybe welding or making sure they dont clip much, those poles coming out the base plates, I can just imagine seeing it ingame looking all lovely just with that annoying little flicker distracting you from it. - Just something to consider, but good work! Should look good with the bake!

[AfterDune]

Nice .

[Rhino]

Agreed, solid work!

I would lean to maybe welding or making sure they dont clip much, those poles coming out the base plates, I can just imagine seeing it ingame looking all lovely just with that annoying little flicker distracting you from it. - Just something to consider, but good work! Should look good with the bake!

Ye lucky is planning on doing some more welding

Its also worth mentioning that the Falklands is extra prone to zfighting due to how far away from the centre of the map most of the map is, especially Argentina which is one place these will feature (for defending that airbase) but also get quite a bit in Stanley where they will mainly be.


Keep up the awesome work lucky, its getting there!

[lucky.BOY]

Agreed, solid work!

I would lean to maybe welding or making sure they dont clip much, those poles coming out the base plates, I can just imagine seeing it ingame looking all lovely just with that annoying little flicker distracting you from it. - Just something to consider, but good work! Should look good with the bake!

Noted, I didnt mean to weld those, but will try to get them welded if I can maintain some reasonable tris count.

Thanks for the praise guys, its appreciated!

[KaB]

Looks sick !