Audio in video games, and in PR, an opinion of an audiophile

[Megagoth1702]

Thanks for the reply.

Okay, thanks. So it's people and DEVs liking your vision of the sound. Gotcha. Can you explain to me what is wrong with this sound for you? Just trying to understand here.
Project Reality v0.91 - MEC Small Arms - YouTube

[Gracler]

Nice presentation there mega interesting stuff.

I have to agree with Anders though. Bf3 sounds are very soft and non of the weapons are truly unique because of that. Not sure if it is said in this presentation but I remember the Bf3 sound designer saying somewhere that he intentionally didn't go for super realistic sounds but wanted all the sounds to be clear and not too loud so they would never be annoying after hearing them for hours non-stop. The result in my opinion is that you can have a casual conversation while firing a weapon, and that works for BF3 but in PR it should be real sharp like it is now.

I enjoy all the 1.0 weapon and engine sounds a lot and Anders did introduce a lot more punch than there was before imo.

Also judging a sample by itself is not fair when we are dealing with something as old as bf2, it has to be testing inside the game and compared to the other sounds which is a time consuming task to say the least

[Rhino]

Audio is at least 50% of the game experience

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

Immersion is 50% of a good game yes, but audio alone is not even 50% of immersion, more like contributes around 30% and around 5 to 10% to gamepaly (which is the other 50% of a game game next to immersion, although for the gameplay aspect sound quality isn't important as long as you have a sound for things that affect gameplay, which in our case gun shots, healing players etc) and if you add that up together it contributes around 20% to the entirety of a game.

[Megagoth1702]

Nice presentation there mega interesting stuff.

I have to agree with Anders though. Bf3 sounds are very soft and non of the weapons are truly unique because of that. Not sure if it is said in this presentation but I remember the Bf3 sound designer saying somewhere that he intentionally didn't go for super realistic sounds but wanted all the sounds to be clear and not too loud so they would never be annoying after hearing them for hours non-stop. The result in my opinion is that you can have a casual conversation while firing a weapon, and that works for BF3 but in PR it should be real sharp like it is now.

I enjoy all the 1.0 weapon and engine sounds a lot and Anders did introduce a lot more punch than there was before imo.

The Sound Design of Battlefield 3 - Game Informer - YouTube

They went for a cleaner/kind of realistic approach instead of an overly cinematic one like in BC2.

BF3 sounds not unique? Wapons do not sound too unique. Like explained in the 1st video with the power point presentation from DICE etc. They all kind of sound the same really. Of course we should cheat and make them kind of unique for the 1p shots, like DICE did. Listen to this and think about the small differences right there, aren't they unique?

Dropbox FTW

[Gracler]

The Sound Design of Battlefield 3 - Game Informer - YouTube

They went for a cleaner/kind of realistic approach instead of an overly cinematic one like in BC2.

BF3 sounds not unique? Wapons do not sound too unique. Like explained in the 1st video with the power point presentation from DICE etc. They all kind of sound the same really. Of course we should cheat and make them kind of unique for the 1p shots, like DICE did. Listen to this and think about the small differences right there, aren't they unique?

Dropbox FTW

No they are not unique enough imo... they are pleasant for the ear though but I could not really tell apart from the middle one being probably the pkm and then there is a pistol and a bolt action I can't distinguish the different sounds. If there is one thing I need it is being able to tell what type of weapon is being fired and especially if it is not a friendly weapon being fired. At long range the sounds should blend together more though. The rate of fire is of course the biggest tell tell, but the mechanics especially the material and length of the barrel do make different sounds.

[Raklodder]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

Immersion is 50% of a good game yes, but audio alone is not even 50% of immersion, more like contributes around 30% and around 5 to 10% to gamepaly (which is the other 50% of a game game next to immersion, although for the gameplay aspect sound quality isn't important as long as you have a sound for things that affect gameplay, which in our case gun shots, healing players etc) and if you add that up together it contributes around 20% to the entirety of a game.

The two of you make good points, sir, however audio and deviation outperform graphics in importance.

[Megagoth1702]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;1933034']I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

Immersion is 50% of a good game yes, but audio alone is not even 50% of immersion, more like contributes around 30% and around 5 to 10% to gamepaly (which is the other 50% of a game game next to immersion, although for the gameplay aspect sound quality isn't important as long as you have a sound for things that affect gameplay, which in our case gun shots, healing players etc) and if you add that up together it contributes around 20% to the entirety of a game.[/quote]

Okay, agreed. In PR audio is probably not 50% of the game experience. Probably a bad way to put stuff into words by me, sorry. In games like Dead Space though it's a whole different story.

But then - should sound be treated like it's only 20% important?

For me for example there are these special moments where I go "hooly shiit this is amazing" and they usually happen during mid-long range firefights with a looot of gun fire and armor/CAS going on. And I think good sounds really contributes to these momens.

[quote="Gracler""][...] If there is one thing I need it is being able to tell what type of weapon is being fired and especially if it is not a friendly weapon being fired. At long range the sounds should blend together more though.[/quote]
I don't expect you do know the weapons, lol, I just wanted to show that you can have them sound kinda similiar but with differences.

Being able to tell who's shooting - in real life you can't really besides the rate of fire and MAYBE the amount of low end telling you the caliber roughly. Weapons sound so different depending on where you are and what direction they are shooting.

U.S. Soldier Survives Taliban Machine Gun Fire During Firefight - YouTube

Could you distinguish the distant firing machine gun fire? Could be a PKM, m240B, AK, any kind of 7,62 rifle really.
British Soldiers Firefight Across Compounds In Afghanisatn - YouTube
I mean in real life they are loud bangs really with variety of low end depending where you are, that's it.

In PR right now when I hear that nice distant fire I listen to the rate of fire, that usually works well.

[Gracler]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

Immersion is 50% of a good game yes, but audio alone is not even 50% of immersion, more like contributes around 30% and around 5 to 10% to gamepaly (which is the other 50% of a game game next to immersion, although for the gameplay aspect sound quality isn't important as long as you have a sound for things that affect gameplay, which in our case gun shots, healing players etc) and if you add that up together it contributes around 20% to the entirety of a game.

Sounds means a lot in games and Anders has proved it with his new sounds..... I almost get a tickle when I jump into any of the Apc's and I hear the diesel engine startup.... its awesome you can almost feel the pedal when you throttle up

Making it a percentage thing is not possible I think though as sometimes sounds means everything and sometimes graphics means everything and game-play is god!

The motocross bike sound is also awesome now

[Rudd]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

depends on the player I think Rhino

clearly Mega meant, Audio is at least 50% of the game experience....for me

like myself, 50% is gameplay, 30% is looks, 20% is sounds

[Megagoth1702]

depends on the player I think Rhino

clearly Mega meant, Audio is at least 50% of the game experience....for me

like myself, 50% is gameplay, 30% is looks, 20% is sounds

Thanks rudd, could you stick around here and put my shitty sentences into the right format? Thanks, haha.

Yes, mainly for me in PR but in other games such as the Dead Space series it's probably more than just me.

[Lugi]

Take a look at these samples. One is currently in PR, it is the M4. The other one is "fixed" by me, I added a punch and mechanics (reciever snapping captured from BF3 since I lack weapon recording libraries worth $$$$$).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cowfp54bfzach ... ference.7z

Wow, the fixed one sounds so much better. You should join the dev team man.

[Rhino]

depends on the player I think Rhino

clearly Mega meant, Audio is at least 50% of the game experience....for me

like myself, 50% is gameplay, 30% is looks, 20% is sounds

Ye possibly, I'm more talking about game design as a whole however.


But ye, Immersion plays a MASSIVE part to how good a game is (or even books, films etc) and its something most people underestimate, and sounds is a large contributor to immersion, if its consensus or sub concious and your probably right on that how much it factors differs depending on the player's tastes

[-=anders=-]

End of discussion now... If you dont like it as it is "right now", either stop playing or continue playing. If Megagoth wanna give me some help he only do this via PM (when I got the time). Enough with these sound matter cause noone can please everyone when its regarding sounds and Im getting abit tired of this.
Closing the thread...

[BloodyDeed]

Moved this thread to the "Feedback Area" and reopened.

We appreciate any feedback like this but please keep in mind there are certain engine limitations we cannot pass. Our sound developers have done a great job in that release and please respect their work when you provide feedback.

[Lugi]

End of discussion now... If you dont like it as it is "right now", either stop playing or continue playing. If Megagoth wanna give me some help he only do this via PM (when I got the time). Enough with these sound matter cause noone can please everyone when its regarding sounds and Im getting abit tired of this.
Closing the thread...

Did one of the Devs just basically told people to fuck off in a bit more polite way?

[-=anders=-]

If thats your way of seeing it with your understandings, be my guest. But not from my part. Try to read the text again.
I've worked with constructive feedback in more than 1 year. That's why. And we have real lifes outside PR aswell. We do take in feedback. Its just a matter of doing it or not. Its our call.
Think again before posting comments like that will ya?

[Megagoth1702]

Moved this thread to the "Feedback Area" and reopened.

We appreciate any feedback like this but please keep in mind there are certain engine limitations we cannot pass. Our sound developers have done a great job in that release and please respect their work when you provide feedback.

I don't know how much more of "I respect your work and time etc." I can say. Of course I do. And I know the engine limitations.

Thanks for re-opening. I also intended the videos to be educational to anyone who does not know audio well and am glad that this possibility is now open again. Otherwise the thread would go down quick.

[-=anders=-]

Its really appreciated mega. Its nice to see more sound finicky people around.

[Tarranauha200]

Most of the sounds are good. Its just the balance beetween them that is fucked up. Many sounds that should be very loud are not. For example 50.cal and assault rifles are equal in volume. Tank shot is equal in volume to hand grenade.

[Raklodder]

Most of the sounds are good. Its just the balance beetween them that is fucked up. Many sounds that should be very loud are not. For example 50.cal and assault rifles are equal in volume. Tank shot is equal in volume to hand grenade.

That's what I have noticed, like the boat making more (areal sound/ mounted) than a Chinook/ Puma?