LAV-25 Cannon is useless

[Henrique_Dalben]

The changes to the damage dealt by the 25mm cannon ruined the LAV, it cannot even destroy a BTR-80 equipped with the 14.5mm KPVT. It takes more than 30 rounds to get a Mi-8 to start smoking. It's just broken.

[Spush]

Aim for the rear, or wheels... Weaker areas of the vehicle. Damage system has been altered.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Aim for the rear, or wheels... Weaker areas of the vehicle. Damage system has been altered.

I just pumped 45 round into the BTR-80's rear, it only started smoking lightly. 2-3 bursts of his 14.5mm cannon destroyed me, hitting my front armor.

[gonzalo658]

I just pumped 45 round into the BTR-80's rear, it only started smoking lightly. 2-3 bursts of his 14.5mm cannon destroyed me, hitting my front armor.

Haven't notice this "bug" at all, maybe try it out in a training server and test it there meanwhile you film it so we can see? and it probably help the devs to!


// Gonzalo

[Henrique_Dalben]

Haven't notice this "bug" at all, maybe try it out in a training server and test it there meanwhile you film it so we can see? and it probably help the devs to!


// Gonzalo

There's no need to test anything. If an armored vehicle with a 25mm cannon is getting destroyed by a similar armored vehicle, but with an inferior cannon, there's something fundamentally broken in the mechanics of one of the vehicles. Either the BTR-80 is too resistant, or the LAV's cannon was nerfed beyond all repair.

Now, i know that the LAV-25 doesn't even have all-around protection against 12.7x99. But the BTR-80 has 0.39 inches (~10mm) of RHA-e all-around, a 25x137mm APFSDS round penetrates 36mm of RHA at 1000m, so that should pretty much wreck the BTR so fast it wouldn't even know what hit it, but in-game the BTR can soak up 25mm rounds to the face indefinitely without any problems, while the LAV can't stand to face 14.5mm rounds head-on.

An answer other than "The game is fine. don't like it, don't play it" is appreciated.

[Psyrus]

What he was saying was that we're quite busy trying to fix a range of other, more game-breaking bugs, so if you could post some video proof and not just anecdotal evidence, it'd be much appreciated.

Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-3cnB0h8Qg

This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh2ZA3vJhkk

Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucBZAGuYSWY

[Prevtzer]

Aim for the rear, or wheels... Weaker areas of the vehicle. Damage system has been altered.

Tested on Local- BTR-80(A) takes 41 AP shells to the front to catch on fire, 23 to the flank, 23 to the back and 23 to the wheels. LAV-25 takes 23 AP shells to the front/ flank/ rear/ wheels to catch on fire. I've also witnessed LAV-25 explode because of less than 10AP shells to the front/ flank and there's several reports of similar events around the forum. Damage system has been broken, not altered.

[nAyo]

Damage system has been broken, not altered.

I have to admit, it's been altered yes, but in a very bad and wrong way. Armor was working very well before (besides challenger turret and one-shot spots which have been fixed now) and there was no tank or APC being overpowered or anything, it was completely fair

Just look at all examples here https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-v ... nks-3.html

[Rudd]

The LAV25 and other vbf2 assets are always going to behave a bit crappilly because their projectile collision meshes are still vbf2 ones, and they didn't put in front/rear/etc

because of this the LAV25 probably needs a HP boost to compensate for the lack of a detailed projectile mesh

but remember it's only got a 25mm gun and the BTR80a has a 30mm too, so it's not going to be the same, but perhaps the 25mm is underpowered at the moment or the other cannons are too powerful

we'll look into the interaction of the BTR80's cannon, thank you for your bug report

[K4on]

Tested on Local- BTR-80(A) takes 41 AP shells to the front to catch on fire, 23 to the flank, 23 to the back and 23 to the wheels. LAV-25 takes 23 AP shells to the front/ flank/ rear/ wheels to catch on fire.

The LAV has the same armour as the BTR, as these are both "MEDIUM" APCs. Except the BTR80 front armour.
Unfortunately the LAV has the same armor all around, doesnt matter if front or rear.
This is because of the LAV mesh, and funny fact: has been in PR since ever.

The BTR80A is btw not really comparable to the LAV25.
The high firerate, and the 30mm gun are supposed to be superior.

But yeah, too strong gameplaywise, will be probably nerfed.


edit:
@ Prevtzer: This are the kind of reports we prefer! Well video documented, that really helps!

edit2:

LAV-25 explode because of less than 10AP shells to the fron

strange, as your first video clearly shows 23 rounds.

[Tarranauha200]

LAV-25 should be easy to kill with the cannon BTR-80 haves. The real problem is that LAV-25 cant kill LAV-25 which it realistically should be able to do.

Nothing else but the armor of BTR-80 needs to be changed.

[Murphy]

The BTR80A came into the topic on the video post, before that it was a conversation about the other BTR80 with the 14.5 cannon. The LAV is fast and effective against infantry and I don't see the BTR80A besting it as an issue, but if the other BTR with the weaker cannon can outgun the LAV I think there is an issue, no?

[Prevtzer]

The BTR80A came into the topic on the video post, before that it was a conversation about the other BTR80 with the 14.5 cannon. The LAV is fast and effective against infantry and I don't see the BTR80A besting it as an issue, but if the other BTR with the weaker cannon can outgun the LAV I think there is an issue, no?

I tested on local and BTR80 has the same amount of armour as 80A. And it took about 85 14.5mm bullets to kill the LAV-25.

[Henrique_Dalben]

Just tested it on a local server, 42 25mm shells to the front armor to kill the BTR-80. As Prevtzer said, 85 14.5 to kill the LAV, also to the front armor. But the M242 overheats at 25 rounds fired, the 14.5 KPVT doesn't overheat when firing the 85 rounds non-stop, and its reload time is less than the cooldown time of the 25mm cannon. BTR-80 with 14.5 cannon x LAV-25 head on, BTR will win every time, and it shouldn't. Now, the BTR-80A has a 30mm cannon, it's OK for it to rape the LAV.

[Murphy]

I tested on local and BTR80 has the same amount of armour as 80A. And it took about 85 14.5mm bullets to kill the LAV-25.

I would hope the armor is the same as the only difference is the weapon. If it takes 84 rounds that means the BTR gunner is reloading one time (if he doesn't miss too many times). The crucial factor here would be time to kill, if the BTR80 (Not BTR80A) can stand toe to toe with an LAV there is obviously an issue.

Also please account for overheat, and accept that the LAV will have to lower the ROF to be able to sustain fire long enough to prevail. Any gunner worth his weight will rarely overheat, especially now that we have the heat indicators.

[Leopardi]

I also witnessed M1A1 getting blown up from one T-72 shot to the front.

[Archosaurus]

Has anyone tested LAT vs BTR's?

One AT-4 should completely wreck any BTR, including the BTR-D but I don't think its ingame.

Mind you the AT-4 has a far improved warhead with very high penetration for an infantry carried weapon, more than the RPG-7V I believe. Ideally one shot to the side of a BTR under 200m should cause a fire or smoke of some sorts and completely disable it. I do not remember the sources where I read this, nor do I have experience myself, so take it with a grain of salt.

[viirusiiseli]

I have to admit, it's been altered yes, but in a very bad and wrong way. Armor was working very well before (besides challenger turret and one-shot spots which have been fixed now) and there was no tank or APC being overpowered or anything, it was completely fair

So much of this. 0.98 armor was balanced and working excluded what nayo mentioned. Armor was a ticket waste with a bad crew but the most powerful weapon in the hands of an experienced crew in any map.

[dysin]

Has anyone tested LAT vs BTR's?

One AT-4 should completely wreck any BTR, including the BTR-D but I don't think its ingame.

Mind you the AT-4 has a far improved warhead with very high penetration for an infantry carried weapon, more than the RPG-7V I believe. Ideally one shot to the side of a BTR under 200m should cause a fire or smoke of some sorts and completely disable it. I do not remember the sources where I read this, nor do I have experience myself, so take it with a grain of salt.

to answer your question, i took a shot on one yesterday from 25m. hit side, white smoke then rtb.

we had two head to head's crewing the lav on saremaa during that same game. first match dropped our lead lav in quicktime. second was a 2 minute fight with our flank lav in good cover. had us damn near cooking but we landed a good deal more hits. enough to end it. tough fight.