How to deal with incompetent commanders?

[Archosaurus]

ALTERNATE TITLE: HOW TO DEAL WITH UNCOORDINATED TEAMS

So I just had a match on Silent Eagle leading a Mechanized infantry squad (Read: Getting destroyed while riding around in APC's and IFV's.) and even if I do admit that my squad's performance was...lacking...to say the least, mostly due to my incompetence in dealing with armor and air in open ground but lets not get to that.
The subject is the commander of our team.

I don't wanna flame him or something, I'm pretty sure he was having a hard time too, but he was making some horrible decisions like calling in an area attack on our position, and not really trying to get the squads to work together so the tanks and IFV's would not just get destroyed as soon as they moved out, for example. No admins there I think as we had three APC squads, of which one was labeled "CAS" and other weirdness.

So my question stands, how do I deal with a situation like that when everything is in chaos and I'm the leader of a squad, in this case a mechanized one, with a lot of responsibility...?

EDIT: I may have posted this in the wrong category. I forgot we had a "tactics" category. Oh well, I don't even know if this fits there actually.

[Heskey]

The name 'commander' betrays the role I think.

This isn't actually the army, and no one is obliged to follow someone else's orders unless there are server rules in place that enforce it. This often only extends from SL to SM though.

The commander's role in PR is largely to survey the battlefield from the UAV, mark enemy positions, and warn squads on what lies ahead / the location of enemy armour, and maybe requesting CAS/Armour support to go to squads that're clearly pinned down by enemy armour/CAS. Commanders that actually start 'commanding', as though 49 players are their chess pieces, things turn pretty ugly pretty fast.

SLs run the show, and if there's a commander available to guide their movement (by telling them they're approaching grave danger), then the SLs job is a little easier.

SLs dictate the direction and pace of the round, not the commander.

[redman0123]

Yeah I played my first round ever as a commander yesterday on militia forces... All I did was put down enemy markers and warn people, and perhaps drive a few crates here and there for a couple of squads. At one point there were several people reporting contacts (the kind where I had to hit "accept" to approve it) and I was also supposed to call down an area attack on enemy armor. So someone decided to be funny and call the area attack down on our cache as a joke, and since I was listening to 3 other SL's, accepting enemy contact markers, and looking for an enemy APC to put area attack on, I wasn't paying attention to this joker and clicked "accept" for area attack on our own cache

[Archosaurus]

The name 'commander' betrays the role I think.

This isn't actually the army, and no one is obliged to follow someone else's orders unless there are server rules in place that enforce it. This often only extends from SL to SM though.

The commander's role in PR is largely to survey the battlefield from the UAV, mark enemy positions, and warn squads on what lies ahead / the location of enemy armour, and maybe requesting CAS/Armour support to go to squads that're clearly pinned down by enemy armour/CAS. Commanders that actually start 'commanding', as though 49 players are their chess pieces, things turn pretty ugly pretty fast.

SLs run the show, and if there's a commander available to guide their movement (by telling them they're approaching grave danger), then the SLs job is a little easier.

SLs dictate the direction and pace of the round, not the commander.

Well let's say I'm the leader of a mechinf squad.
Silent Eagle, Russian side. We've already lost two vehicles and my squad is not exactly the best and are spread out. No one is communicating properly and armor/air support is derping around with no aim, assets are being stolen.

What do I do to turn the tide?

[Gracler]

Well let's say I'm the leader of a mechinf squad.
Silent Eagle, Russian side. We've already lost two vehicles and my squad is not exactly the best and are spread out. No one is communicating properly and armor/air support is derping around with no aim, assets are being stolen.

What do I do to turn the tide?

You do what the music band did on Titanic when it started sinking. You pretend nothing is wrong and keep playing to the best of your ability. Eventually someone might follow your lead and if they don't, then at-least they will die less sad and hopefully not screaming.
Remember to put on your finest suit (behavior) and go down with the ship with honor!

[Archosaurus]

You do what the music band did on Titanic when it started sinking. You pretend nothing is wrong and keep playing to the best of your ability. Eventually someone might follow your lead and if they don't, then at-least they will die less sad and hopefully not screaming.
Remember to put on your finest suit (behavior) and go down with the ship with honor!

So I did a bloody right good job?

It was obvious we were losing pretty hard by the time we got to 150 tickets, so I just was like "Okay whatever, lets try something silly for a last resort" and tried to rush the missile silo with a BMP-3 in hopes of taking out their armor with the ATGM. We ran out of time.
I only had a driver with me who had no prior experience, and everyone else was spread out.

So realistically there is nothing I could of done, not even tried to talk to other SL's in the midgame?

[Gracler]

There is always hope, and I often hear a couple of squad-leaders screaming in despair about how bad the team is even if it is not even that bad compared to the opposing team.

Try to ask another squad-leader directly and call him by his nickname to try to get his attention, and ask him what is his situation or current objective. Then If it sounds like a good idea you can back him up.... if not try to suggest him something.

Sometimes you just need to be patient and polite, screaming or cursing at them is like punching into a pillow.

Getting just 1 other squad to work with you could help a lot.

[Archosaurus]

There is always hope, and I often hear a couple of squad-leaders screaming in despair about how bad the team is even if it is not even that bad compared to the opposing team.

Try to ask another squad-leader directly and call him by his nickname to try to get his attention, and ask him what is his situation or current objective. Then If it sounds like a good idea you can back him up.... if not try to suggest him something.

Sometimes you just need to be patient and polite, screaming or cursing at them is like punching into a pillow.

Getting just 1 other squad to work with you could help a lot.

Its not that, no one on our team was going "omg noobzorz fuk u" and neither was I at all insulting my team or squad, so it wasn't really that.

I just felt like everyone was lost and could do whatever they want.

Do you think it would of been better had I asked another squad if they need IFV support, instead of trying to go fight my own wars on the flank?

Mind you we lost 409 - 0, we got nothing done basically, killed maybe like ten guys of the enemy team. Some squads joked about it so I don't think anyone was mad, but it could of been a bit funner had we got something done.

[Gracler]

Well that is a good thing if they don't get mad.

Some rounds just go sideways and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yes it is a good idea to support another squad especially if your mech-infantry since you can move fast. Flanking is only possible if there is a front-line and on a map like Silent eagle it is sometimes hard to see the front-line for all the trees so if you go 1 by 1 there is a good chance you will be ambushed yourself.

The only problem with supporting another squad is that you often get delayed in the same spot for a while when someone get shot or you need to discuss where to go next and then you get hit by cas or mortar fire, but you can always stay on the move and just patrol the area or just regroup on the next location..... don't get paralyzed by the other squads.

[Archosaurus]

Well that is a good thing if they don't get mad.

Some rounds just go sideways and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yes it is a good idea to support another squad especially if your mech-infantry. Flanking is only possible if there is a front-line and on a map like Silent eagle it is sometimes hard to see the front-line for all the trees so if you go 1 by 1 there is a good chance you will be ambushed yourself.

The only problem with supporting another squad is that you often get delayed in the same spot for a while when someone get shot or you need to discuss where to go next and then you get hit by cas or mortar fire, but you can always stay on the move and just patrol the area or just regroup on the next location..... don't get paralyzed by the other squads.

I know quite a lot about the "by the book" method of mobile warfare, but don't know how to use it in a 1st person, fog of war perspective like a gunner's seat.

Do you think it would have been smart to drop off the infantry in an area overlooking the objective, in a safe place, then just kinda patrol behind the frontline with the BMP? Not far off, but kinda moving constantly and shooting at anything that pops up, and not doing an organized push with the infantry?

[Gracler]

Mech infantry is a tough life on silent eagle. What I normally do is to find some decent tree covered spot and cut the engine overlooking the most populated friendly fire-base. Then the infantry will patrol around the vehicle and report anything they see. Then when the infantry spot something like enemy vehicle the IFV break cover and engage if possible.

It is always going to be the Inf that cover the Ifv and not the ifv that cover the inf to the point that the enemy is located.... then the roles swap... then the IFV starts covering the inf unless if it is a tank or a HAT guy.

[matty1053]

When I was squad lead in .98 u could see the map
Now in 1.0 all u see is pointless marks

But I hate when commanders call area attack on our main bases

[Gracler]

When I was squad lead in .98 u could see the map
Now in 1.0 all u see is pointless marks

The commander marker spam has been reverted. it is back at 1 min again, which I kinda dislike. It was good the way it was but I guess they did it because of crashes or something. I spend all my "marks" on moving the UAV around so i hardly ever mark anything anymore I have to spam the Squad-leaders individually with target markers.

[Death!]

The commander marker spam has been reverted. it is back at 1 min again, which I kinda dislike. It was good the way it was but I guess they did it because of crashes or something. I spend all my "marks" on moving the UAV around so i hardly ever mark anything anymore I have to spam the Squad-leaders individually with target markers.

WHAT THE FUCK? IT WAS SO DAMN GOOD WITH 5 SECONDS DELAY! Fuck it.

BTW, when I am commander, I don't even try to give orders to Infantry SLs because they will rarely obey. Usually only the CAS and Tanks hear your words. I try to keep the inteligence flowing and provide something people may need (e.g. someone need a crate but the trans squad is not responding by whatever reason). Sometimes I organize pushes when we got Area Attack, it is pretty much the only move order INF SLs obey.

Edit: I remember when a guy was saying I was a bad commander because I was not bulding FOBs (by myself) to help the team. I was like "dude, u wat?"

[A.Finest]

From my experience, once and if you have a "bad" commander insted of throwing the guy off his seat by telling him he sucks at his job. Assist the fella and advice him insted, put your own general knowledge on the line and take the time, ofc if the individual does not wanna accept some help he should get mutiny without questions asked.

Just saying, insted of telling a man his bad at his role, assist him. Exactly like you would if you had a "beginner medic" etc.. Atleast thats what I would do

// Finest

[PLODDITHANLEY]

Totally player dependant.

I've been CO often recently and quite often people have asked what are your orders and obeyed!

On insurgent CO should be spotting hideouts and asking squad to kill them CO can tell them how many are there.

New marker and UAV are great as you can see and delete markers as soon as they are irrelevant, meaning markers actually mean something so they're not ignored. Keep map as clean as possible at all times.

Ins CO surrounds caches with informants waypoints as early warning of blufor attack route.

Always call squads by CO to 2 and be patient for a response, if none remind them it's the / button.

[Archosaurus]

Totally player dependant.

I've been CO often recently and quite often people have asked what are your orders and obeyed!

On insurgent CO should be spotting hideouts and asking squad to kill them CO can tell them how many are there.

New marker and UAV are great as you can see and delete markers as soon as they are irrelevant, meaning markers actually mean something so they're not ignored. Keep map as clean as possible at all times.

Ins CO surrounds caches with informants waypoints as early warning of blufor attack route.

Always call squads by CO to 2 and be patient for a response, if none remind them it's the / button.

Oh yeah, its very much so player dependent.
In my experience in my 1st match of yesterday, before the Silent Eagle one, I was a platoon commander, but also leader of Squad 1 on Fallujah as the USMC.
Basically anything I said goes and I was even called "sir".


The point of my topic is actually not really the commander, but more of when the whole team is unorganized, and what I can do to help stop it.

Mech infantry is a tough life on silent eagle. What I normally do is to find some decent tree covered spot and cut the engine overlooking the most populated friendly fire-base. Then the infantry will patrol around the vehicle and report anything they see. Then when the infantry spot something like enemy vehicle the IFV break cover and engage if possible.

It is always going to be the Inf that cover the Ifv and not the ifv that cover the inf to the point that the enemy is located.... then the roles swap... then the IFV starts covering the inf unless if it is a tank or a HAT guy.

So mechanized infantry, unless in open ground with good views, should sit back with the IFV and let the infantry do the spotting while the IFV is hidden?
How often should the IFV move? Also applies to APC's but more to IFV's as they are a bit more combat capable.

[Lugi]

SLs dictate the direction and pace of the round, not the commander.

This is true, and it sucks.
I think devs should step up and make the commander a mandatory position. Just like a squad without squad leader is shit, same thing should happen to the whole team if there isnt a commander. First thing that comes to my mind that should help with this issue is the removal of map for infantry (SLs as well).

[Kingy]

This is true, and it sucks.
I think devs should step up and make the commander a mandatory position. Just like a squad without squad leader is shit, same thing should happen to the whole team if there isnt a commander. First thing that comes to my mind that should help with this issue is the removal of map for infantry (SLs as well).

No no no no.

Commander is great as it is, leave it alone. The commander should set vague ideas for the team and objectives but allow the initiative of squad leaders to take over in carrying those objectives out. He's there as a hub of information and comms traffic, keeping everyone updated to what's hapenning out in the field that is relative to their current objective and encouraging squads to work together.

The commander is also probably the most stressful role in PR if your doing it right so forcing it upon someone who doesn't want to command just isn't fair.

[Gracler]

The commander is also probably the most stressful role in PR if your doing it right so forcing it upon someone who doesn't want to command just isn't fair.

Infantry squad leader is the most stressful role because you have to make split second decisions while under fire, the commander should never be as stressed as them when he is in the uav looking down, and at maximum he is talking to 9 other mostly self-propelled people, where as a squad-leader has to micromanage 7 lemmings

The way I do commander is helping the ones that wanna be helped and leaving alone the ones that seem like they wanna command themselves .
I do however no longer think that the commander should be "2nd" in command after the squad-leaders since the commander know the battlefield best with the new permanent uav so his orders would be better because he got all the intel he needs, and the squad-leaders are just fumbling in the dark.

The squad-leaders should move at there own pace though and the commander will just give them there next objective. Having a commander yelling at you to move forward is not helping.