Audio in video games, and in PR, an opinion of an audiophile

[Murphy]

Talking about bass and low frequency sounds is fun and all, but without a proper setup those sounds can easily become muddy or non existent to the player. I'd bet most players are oblivious to the low end nuances and instead focus on the high end distorting most probably due to their own settings/equipment.

I have found the distant shots to be somewhat "void" for certain weapons when compared to the sounds at medium to short range, but I haven't noticed any clipping or distorting in the samples themselves. The sound and vibrations through your body caused by the weapon being fired and cycling would be nearly impossible to duplicate and I don't think I have yet found a game that captures the AK sound perfectly (I haven't heard an AK fired in a while though, and memory is selective). The sound of that heavy slide cycling has yet to be duplicated even by the pros, everyone captures the pop of the gasses and loses the rest of the weapon.

You have done an incredible job Anders, you've changed the soundscape to be on par with modern games. Keep up the good work.

[stray cat]

Since I have been sick for two weeks I had a lot of time to think about it and I really am worried about where this is going.

I am also worried about how the DEVs treat the topic.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f252...-clipping.html

Finally the cavalry arrived.
TOLD YA *******

[Megagoth1702]

Sup, how about this?

PR, mew M4 sound, final - YouTube

I think this is:
-snappy
-bassy
-clean
-saturated
-with mechanics
-loud
-agressive
-good?

Your opinions on the M4?

[maarit]

i like it.is there youtube video where is the original weapon sound?

[Megagoth1702]

Yeah, there is an older video. The MegaSounds are OLD though, they were just experiments.

http://realitymodfiles.com/dbzao/sideby ... 20dlf504fE

Try this side by side thing. You can switch between the videos.

Original video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n20dlf504fE


What do you like about the sound? Try to describe it. What do you think is missing?

[maarit]

i think that your sound is better.
when i was increasing the volume in my headphones(quit loud) the original sounds were hurting my ears but your sound was not.
it was somehow softer but also powerfull.

and that m249 original sound,my ears was bleeding but yours i can just listen that even volumes high.

[Megagoth1702]

i think that your sound is better.
when i was increasing the volume in my headphones(quit loud) the original sounds were hurting my ears but your sound was not.
it was somehow softer but also powerfull.

The secret of the so called RMS. Google it.
Volume over time, it's pretty awesome. Our ears can stand a very loud impulse without getting any damage if the impulse is very short. So I use that in order to make the sounds bassy, snappy and poppy without them being too loud because the RMS level barely rises with the initial kick.

Granted the original recordings help a lot with that because they are just perfectly short and sharp but you still have to work with the volume levels etc.

Man, time to go to bed. I actually just came home from a party and since I am at home for the first time this week I instantly sat down in front of my PC and recorded this little video, haha. Time to sleep now!

I say again, the "PR Sound Experiments" is not final at all. This is the only final thing I have ATM:

PR, mew M4 sound MOD, final (not official PR sound) - YouTube

The other stuff is work in progress. Gonna be working on the M249 next, gonna try to make it snappy, mechanic-y (all the belt rattle), sharp.

Then come all the russian rifles, the beautifully snapping AK, the brutally fast PKM etc.

[Megagoth1702]

*delete me*

double post by mistake.

[Spook]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true.

Immersion is 50% of a good game yes, but audio alone is not even 50% of immersion, more like contributes around 30% and around 5 to 10% to gamepaly (which is the other 50% of a game game next to immersion, although for the gameplay aspect sound quality isn't important as long as you have a sound for things that affect gameplay, which in our case gun shots, healing players etc) and if you add that up together it contributes around 20% to the entirety of a game.

How can sound only contribute 5-10% to the gameplay? For me pesonally it is about 70-80%. Sound tells me what enemy I am facing and where it is. Footsteps clearly tell me which corner or which hill next to me I have to aim at before the enemy pops up there. I remember in 0.98 always playing on "high" audio settings. After I bought an X-Fi card and put sound to "Ultra-High" my average K/D of maybe 2/1 immediately increased to 3/1 or 4/1. I heared footsteps way earlier and never someone was able to sneak up to me in any way, I always heared him before he even saw me. This does not work with 1.0 anymore, footsteps are barely hearable, even with no shooting around you they are very low. IMO a little too low. But maybe this was done on pupose because they were too loud before and I guess it is more realistic this way. For some reason far running sounds seem to be louder than very close running and walking sounds now. I noticed this several times. People sneaked up to me without me even hearing them once, but sometimes I suddenly hear loud footsteps behind me, I turn around and see some guy running over a street 100m away.

but yeah btt:
Now remove sound completely and take a look how gameplay changes for you. If it would be only about 5% as you say, removing audio should not have a big impact on gameplay at all. But it does, infact you would not be able to play the game properly anymore.

[Prevtzer]

Sup, how about this?

PR, mew M4 sound, final - YouTube

I think this is:
-snappy
-bassy
-clean
-saturated
-with mechanics
-loud
-agressive
-good?

Your opinions on the M4?

Can you give us just the new sound of your M4 vs. how it is in PR now.

[Megagoth1702]

Can you give us just the new sound of your M4 vs. how it is in PR now.

The PR M4 is how it is right now, it's in the first seconds of this video.
Project Reality sound experiments, M4, M249 - YouTube

This is my version of the M4.
PR, mew M4 sound MOD, final (not official PR sound) - YouTube

Just watch the videos side by side.

[Mikemonster]

Sound is so subjective that it's impossible to do anything but form a general consensus from a forum of people..

Most people that play PR will be using low-end 'off the shelf' PC speakers with (relatively) cheap headphones for when flatmates are asleep, etc.

Even the expensive 'off the shelf' sets are poor quality for Hi-Fi.

This aside, I would think a majority also output the sound for these devices from an on-board (integrated) sound card.

Even the people that have a 'proper' sound card, capable of higher quality output of analogue sound, won't have calibrated it to their speakers (I haven't, I can't be arsed).

Let alone people actually setting up their sound system to the room, and ensuring that they are using the correct levels for each speaker, correct distance for listening position, etc.

I'm not saying some people aren't into their sound, simply that what sounds right for one of us would probably sound poor to someone else.

[Prevtzer]

The PR M4 is how it is right now, it's in the first seconds of this video.
Project Reality sound experiments, M4, M249 - YouTube

This is my version of the M4.
PR, mew M4 sound MOD, final (not official PR sound) - YouTube

Just watch the videos side by side.

Watched it, sounds much better, better punch, clear mechanics etc. I've never heard M4 irl so I have no idea what is sounds like, but I'd say your sample makes it a bit too 'plastic'.

[-=anders=-]

Here I've made similar sounds that megagoth is after wich are recorded with various mics of an M4 shooting. Remember even here, to crank up the colume 10-30% than what you have when you play PR.




But I still prefer sharper sounds and more snappier. BF2 engine also makes 3p sounds (that sounds great outside the game) very muffled. Thats why I prefer using more sharp sounds especially for 3p. That's it.

Also this would be a really hard job for me to decrease all other volumes except gunshots and explosions for users to crank up their volume. I wont do that in the nearest future. Got too much irl stuff that goes before this.

And once again I prefer clearer sounding with snappy punch.

And as Mikemonster said, ceoncering sounds its veery subjective. The current sounds sounds pretty well in my system, while it may lack the punch etc in other users system.

My setup: ASUS Essence STX
Headphones (never test with speakers!!!): Audio-Technica ATH-M50.

[Megagoth1702]

This sounds so much cleaner anders, nice! It actually does need a bit more presence/high end, the 3p more than the 1p. Also maybe a bit more feedback from the environment? A tad bit more reverb?

Overall I really dig that.

A thing I will keep doing is turning down mechanics either completely or a lot in 3p sounds. You can't really hear them at distances and it would sound weird always hearing that quiet "snap".

Thanks for keeping up the work!

By the way - your headphones are said to be a bit heavy on the low end, maybe this is where we always had misunderstandings in terms of how much bass is enough? :-/

[Prevtzer]

Audio-Technica ATH-M50.

We found the problem Great headphones in its class, but not suitable for any work with sound. Stressed lows, muddy mids, slightly bright highs and lack of proper sound stage is hardly how you'd describe a transparent set of cans.

[-=anders=-]

Tried different kinds and these are the ones I fell in love with to create sounds and music.

[Prevtzer]

Tried different kinds and these are the ones I fell in love with to create sounds and music.

Exactly, they sound very fun. It's hard to fall in love with transparent cans.

[Unhealed]

[Megagoth1702]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]-=anders=-;1937636']Tried different kinds and these are the ones I fell in love with to create sounds and music. [/quote]

[quote="Prevtzer""]Exactly, they sound very fun. It's hard to fall in love with transparent cans.[/quote]

Studio/working headphones are not really supposed to be fun. They're supposed to be honest and transparent so that you exactly hear & know what you're doing.