Release Iraqi Insurgency mode is not fun :/

[Spec]

The problem with shotguns is players using them and giving NO FUCKS about what they are shooting because theirs no penalty if they hit a civilian as opposed to a insurgent. I play as a civy, stay in the compound with my team. I stand near the doorway and let a insurgent hide behind me, and some breacher just runs in and blasts us both with his shotgun and gets REWARDED for violating the ROE.

I keep posting about beanbag rounds in the "suggestions" forums but it never gets accepted by a mod, everyone should go spam it till one thread makes it through.

That's because beanbags are a resuggestion and we do not approve of these things. Do not spam the suggestions forum or all you'll earn is an infraction...

[SterrUwe321]

1. Hideouts

Is allways there. At least one. The problem with setting up a fob is that the Blufor only need 150tickets. On maps like Karbala or Operation Marlin, the next Cache gets known immediatly after the last cache went down. It's impossible to set up 3 fobs in 5mins. Especially when 2/3 in your squad don't have a shovel.

2. IEDs

Ammo is needed if you plan to place more then one. Ammobags and ammotechies are rare. As Ins you mostly have 3mins time to set them up (right after the cache get's known you spawn there and place them all over the cache, >hide). It's impossible in a firefight to use them, Zappers only have pistols and if you try to get a IED near the enemy inf you probably end shot.

3. SPGs

Lack of shovels. And they are not very powerfull because they take too long to turn around and aiming can be difficult, if you miss the first shot you're probably done.

4. Collaborator (PKM Ambush, Suicide Vehicle Intel, Martyr and IED spotter)

Without the phone he can't spot. It was such a usefull kit in 0.98 when you were a sqleader and directed your squad and team through Inf/apc markers.
Also he's likely to get shot, some people on the blufor don't give a shit about intel points. They don't care if their team wins or looses, they are just kill hungry and shoot the civis.
And since 1.0 respawn time is now 3mins for getting arrested, therefor some don't like to play as civi anymore.

5. Informants (Commander Waypoints)

Yeah. This should be done more.

6. Suicide Vehicles

I don't like it when the balance depence to much on the suicide vehicles. As soon someones messes it up the whole team is screwed. The RPGs should be more accourate, or perhaps it should be possible to spawn as LAT on the INS side too.

7. Marksman

You can't request them. There are 2 in the mainbase and that's it.
Ins need more of them. What is really annoying is the fact you never know if one is avaible, you can't make stategic decisions as a sqleader like; we fall back a bit and start fighting over distance.

8. RPG

They are useless. Against INF and Armors.

9. Technicals (IEDs, RPGs, SPGs Ammo, SPG, Rocket, 50 cal)

They are being used, it's just hard to keep 'em alive. I wish we had more ammotechies though.

10. Mortars

Due to the lack of ammo they are mostly build next to the cache. It's easy for the blufor to find and destroy them. But that's okay for me. Insurgents are not supposed to drop an unstoppable rain of mortar shells on the enemy.



7/10 things that need to be tweaked/fixed/balanced or whatever.

[Vicious302]

Insurgency is the easiest faction and most fun for me to play because of hideouts not requiring supplies, all I see in that reply is a bunch of excuses.

1. Hideouts: Build all 6, it may take 10-15 minutes at round start but it is worth it and NECESSARY. If the rest of your team (42) guys can't guard a cache for 10-15 minutes then it's already gg.

2. IEDs : Place by known cache or request ammo from the ammo technical by dropping your kit and using the cell phone from the dropped kit. Place 5 Mortar or Mine IEDs by right clicking. Easily possible to do before the cache even goes known. A full proof way to get kills is to quickly place 5 mortar IEDS around the cache and then return to main, when the cache goes down, blow the IEDs. Ammo technical and ammobags not rare by any means.

3.SPGs, Lack of shovels? There are shovels in most kits. They are very powerful, capable of taking down a Humvee in one hit and sometimes an APC in one hit if your lucky. I don't know where you got this information.

4. As a Collaborator you never go out anywhere alone and risk getting arrested, it's 10 intel points for the enemy and it's VERY bad and #1 way to lose insurgency, much like in real life. If you have little Jesse Pinkman's spilling their guts to the enemy, via water boarding, rendition, camp x-ray, your gonna lose. The trick is to roll with at least 2 guys with guns to help you, rope up into a balcony where you can't be arrested, or purposely try to be martyred which helps your team a lot by taking away the intel. You cited this as a reason to not be civi, but that makes no sense considering it takes away 10 intel points which is equivalent to 10 kills.

5. So do it.

6. Suicide vehicles respawn and the most crucial thing is to just destroy and disrupt, it doesn't matter if it's an apc, humvee, or just infantry, just use them to slow the enemy down, force them into revive mode, then clean them up. Some maps require them to not be wasted, like Karbala, but on the same coin, they only have limited armor, so if you do succeed, it greatly helps your team.

7. Marksman are available at roundstart, if this is something you are going to do, decide it then.

8. RPGs again as your said about SPGs, do not suck, they take down humvees in one shot. 2 can easily track or take down an apc.

9. Simply setup technical s in defensive mode they are much more powerful then roaming around waiting to get ambushed. They are basically mobile emplacements that can move left to right much faster.

10. Most insurgent maps have cities where mortars can be built, forcing blufor to push into the city if they want to take them down.

I feel like I'm reading a lot of excuses and when I play insurgency I see most people not doing these things. The only thing not listed which is obvious is cache defense, but those are the only things you should be doing.

Something to consider now that unknowns don't physically spawn is that insurgents are basically given the win from the start, they could sit in their main and the caches would never go known, 4 hours would pass, and they would win. Obviously that is not fun, but the concept is still sound, the harder you try, the harder you lose, less is more. Stop trying, the red pill or the blue pill, it's up to you.

[Mikemonster]

The insurgency game-mode is now a lot more realistic.

APC's and MG's provide effective covering fire, paralysing the insurgents.

The inf that assaults has better weapons (SA-80 and M4), and always works as a squad.


Currently however there are lots of new players, who default to the Insurgency side and **** around.


This combined with the more complex nature of the game-mode means it's almost always a total walkover.


In the past, the good players on the team could to a fairly large extent make up for the ones that just ran forward, got shot, ran forward, got shot.

Now, with 100p servers, and no Civi kit for Squad Leaders, this has become proportionately harder.


Basically at the moment the good players switch to Blufor because they want a proper game, and the Insurgent team just runs around like headless chickens. Charging techies at enemy squads, spawning and running straight toward the enemy, getting an RPG kit and running at the enemy (to get shot again), etc etc etc.



I think the whole game-mode needs to go 'back to basics' and be heavily dumbed down for the new playerbase.

Either that or the Insurgents need to become a conventional faction, but with the Insurgent style weaponry. I mean, play as squads like Blufor do, have requestable special kits, need Ammo Trucks to deploy hideouts, have asset rules for techies, the WHOLE shebang.


Basically insurgency is so realistic now that the 'charge and die' players on the Ins team are losing each and every round for their side - Compounded by the fact that the good players go Blufor to avoid the derping.

[SterrUwe321]

Compounded by the fact that the good players go Blufor to avoid the derping.

The good player do not go Blufor. If you are a good player you join the Ins and look for a challenge.
Now in fact, you join the Blufor and automatically become a good player, because the enemys is desperately underpowered.

[Mikemonster]

Sterr I know what you mean, but compare the Blufor team to the Insurgent team and the Blufor team will always have better Squad Leaders, and squads that work.

Insurgency doesn't have this usually, which leads to 50 disjointed players, of which the good ones are now proportionately a smaller part of the team (and can make less difference).

I enjoy playing Insurgents, but the lack of proper teamwork is having the effect of a downward spiral in each game.

[Vicious302]

Just concern yourself with your squad and that's all that matters... I can take 6-8 guys and do 6 hideouts within 10-15 minutes and still make it back to the cache in time to defend, that's all insurgency needs to win, lots of hideouts and good cache defense. Besides that, I'm not sure what server your playing on but the ones I play on have equal amount of skilled players on both sides and nothing needs to be changed, just players need to start putting their money where their mouth is and start leading squads and helping instead of just making excuses and complaining.

[[508th_PIR] Grey]

Sterr I know what you mean, but compare the Blufor team to the Insurgent team and the Blufor team will always have better Squad Leaders, and squads that work.

Except for the times when they don't.

[Bellator]

3.SPGs, Lack of shovels? There are shovels in most kits. They are very powerful, capable of taking down a Humvee in one hit and sometimes an APC in one hit if your lucky. I don't know where you got this information.

SPGs require much investment (in player time) and they rarely yield much of an advantage. As you said, they barely destroy an APC in one hit and in maps like Fallujah where the US can have as many as 4 apcs with ridicolous weaponry, your lone SPG doesn't stand much of a chance.

5. So do it.

Of course you would never do it.

IF some one wants to waste his time as a ins commander: its like watching paint dry.

7. Marksman are available at roundstart, if this is something you are going to do, decide it then.

Any random fool can just grab them on a whim and usually do if they get the chance. So there isn't much planning involved at all.

And most other ins pickup kits like RPK and PKM are not much help at this stage: every blufor clown with his magic 556 bb gun is a sniper that can kill any ins without even aiming.

8. RPGs again as your said about SPGs, do not suck, they take down humvees in one shot. 2 can easily track or take down an apc.

RPGs can be useful but only in very limited circuimstances when you have a very good team that can support the rpg guys a little (but this isn't usually the case as most clans and organized players are complete bluwhores). But I can see why they are bluwhores: If you need 3 RPG hits to destroy an apc, that is ridicolous especially since they are now so inaccurate. I've seen APC players rack up 100+ kills on ramiel and like 80+ on fallujah. Such kills would be absurd in any other context and you would immediately have a chorus of demands for rebalancing.

9. Simply setup technical s in defensive mode they are much more powerful then roaming around waiting to get ambushed. They are basically mobile emplacements that can move left to right much faster.

I've tried this many times.

But, technicals are not actually much use as emplacements either because their gunners are much too vulnerable to small arms fire and splash damage from APCs. If you look at actually technicals in Syria and Libya, almost all of them have steel protection for the gunner: the pathetic splash damage from a 25 mm gun would not hurt them.

I feel like I'm reading a lot of excuses and when I play insurgency I see most people not doing these things. The only thing not listed which is obvious is cache defense, but those are the only things you should be doing.

That's because all clans and organized players are complete and utter bluwhores: I can understand why since ins is so frustrating to anyone who wants to play with some degree of team work.

Something to consider now that unknowns don't physically spawn is that insurgents are basically given the win from the start, they could sit in their main and the caches would never go known, 4 hours would pass, and they would win.

Utter nonsense. If you've actually played games where one side thinks they've got the perfect position and then let themselves get surrounded; it usually doesn't work well, even if you have the tunnels or bunkers or something.

Again, you have very unreasonable expecations of insurgent players: they must remain stationary for 4 hours and win. They must organize a perfect this and perfect that (even when a single clown could ruin every plan by taking that bomb car somewhere else or grabbing that svd before you can etc), while the blufor gets ideal lonewolfing kits, 4 apcs, granade launchers that fire full auto and shake the entire building, saw guns that require no skill or aiming but mow down entire squads of ins with ease, etc etc

and on top of that the ins only get 5 caches and half of them are usually exposed in the middle of open fields.

[SterrUwe321]

Listen to what Bellator has to say. He knows the pain you have as a Insurgent.
And you bluwhores should finally accept the fact that the Ins mode is a joke rightnow.

But yeah, go for it! Just keep it that way. Let more and more player leave PR. 1 week ago, i started to play Vanilla again, just because i wanted to actually have some fun again.
just go for it, untill the day arrives where no inswhores are left and you have to play on the ins side. And after 3 rounds of Ins you finally realize how wronge you were.

[ComradeHX]

The good player do not go Blufor. If you are a good player you join the Ins and look for a challenge.
Now in fact, you join the Blufor and automatically become a good player, because the enemys is desperately underpowered.

Face it, majority wants to pretend to be the "good" guys.
=====================




INS kit is a huge problem. Because they spawn on cache and base; so any n00b not in a squad can pick one up and take it to who knows where, get shot, then lose kit for rest of team. They do not have enough kits(RPG and marksman, specifically).

[Rolling_Ruedo]

Listen to what Bellator has to say. He knows the pain you have as a Insurgent.
And you bluwhores should finally accept the fact that the Ins mode is a joke rightnow.

But yeah, go for it! Just keep it that way. Let more and more player leave PR. 1 week ago, i started to play Vanilla again, just because i wanted to actually have some fun again.
just go for it, untill the day arrives where no inswhores are left and you have to play on the ins side. And after 3 rounds of Ins you finally realize how wronge you were.

I started playing 2 months ago, and I can tell you I would certainly play more if I weren't afraid of the server switching to an INS map

Playing as BLUFOR is no fun since you steamroll (on most maps) and playing INS isn't fun (except on a couple maps) because no iron sights, and little/no specialty kits.

[Mikemonster]

After all I've said, I give in.

At the moment playing Insurgents is just an exercise in frustration - You can't win against a half good Blufor team and if you try you will just get annoyed with the game mechanics/your team.

Blufor have every advantage (including mobility) and it's just not worth it at the moment.

[Human_001]

I personally like the new kit layout.
I do agree however Binocular (ability to see far to overcome limitatoin due to game itself) can come back to be easier on the eyes. Or make some other means of zooming. But not the ironsight zoom.

I wrote whole page of comment before this but after reading constructive comments already posted I decide to post this shorter version.

One thing that bothers me is that because there is only 1 cache now we have 2 less RPG 1 less PKM and 1 less RPK. As I read in previous posts, if available speciality kit like sniper increased for Blufor due to 100 player then INS should get more pickup kit too.

When playing AAS I feel as if game is playing me instead of me playing the game. It feels like you are a part of a program where you make 2 exact same strenght forces fight each other according to same set of rules.

In nutshell I won't mind being on disadvantage, As long as it is realistic. Such realistic depiction is what make INS mode enjoyable compared to boring AAS.

The Fun is in overcoming that disadvantage with tactic. And to say to those blufor players who comes in assured of winning because they have better weapons and thinks they got more skill because of it 'I don't think so'. It's usually Blufor dedicated players on U.S. team in Vietnam map who complains "oh god I can't do this I can't see anything where is my scope".

[Bellator]

The new deviation has basically turned PR into a CoD clone, and the insurgents are terrible at that kind of gameplay.

I like the old deviation better. lets go back to that.

It's usually Blufor dedicated players on U.S. team in Vietnam map who complains "oh god I can't do this I can't see anything where is my scope".

Exactly: the same with the IDF. Typical bluwhore moaning.

[MertSahin]

i have not read all comments guy but i just wanna add to this,
i do not dislike the Insurgency Mode, but i do not like the Iraqi Insurgency faction, only the fact that you cant request kits from weapons cache's is already a big disadvantage, also the fact that you can not have a armed combat medic is a big disadvantage since a civilian cannot defend himself there are not much players that wanna stick with their squad and play the medic civilian... and still if you are the civilian and healing/reviving squad/teammates you lose your civilian situation and end up doing nothing the hole game but reviving people and then hiding for another minute because when u get killed u will get arrested for helping the insurgents...

i would seriously recommend removing the iraqi insurgency faction and adding taliban instead, or at least if it stays Iraqi Insurgency please make it that we can get a combat medic with aks-47 and a breacher + lmg at least so we can have more fun fighting against all those heavily armed Blufor factions

[ghostfool84]

I think bellator and sterruwe just point it out. Insurgency has lack of everything. I dont understand why the most kits dont even have shovels or ammo. Why restrict them to death? People might say "of course you can win if your team is organized bla bla" but hey when the other team is oranized to you have no chance. Your hideouts easily et spotted by uav and then quick destroyed or camped with long range weapons. AK has the worst recoil ever, and if you want to have nades you have to stick with a kit thats useless in cqb (thats where you can actually use your nades). You cant request kits from the crate if you need them (like civi fo healing).

People dont see why they should stick in a squad, most of the time nobody wants to play civi and on the regular forces the chance of getting revived by your squadmedic is a real pro to join a squad and stay together. Not on Insurgency. And like Mertsahin said, not anyone wants to play a unarmed kit just for sake of the squad. In the end of the day this game is still an FPS, people play it because they want to shoot people at some point. Sql cant even use civi to provide intel to team, so why we have this kit?? Not to provide intel.

And even you your team manage to win somehow, it is simply not fun to die and die in a row and look at the spawnscreen most of the time until all hideouts are overrun. You do not even know wich cache gets known next so you can prepare from roundstart to build all hideouts (like someone suggested)

On some Maps like Basrah i dont even spawn on a cache thats outside the city because it just does not make sense to defend these. For Bluefor its just "drive 300m close to the cache with the APC, shoot until Ammo is out, repeat until some inf Squad manage to take the cache down"

With UAV support bomb cars are not the danger to apc they were before, they know from where they come and can easily kill them.

Hopefully this mode will be fixed. At the moment you cant set a Ins Map in the late evening because half of the insurgents will simply leave.

[[FSA]IrRahman]

My ideas:

- Bring back RKG-3 for kits with automatic rifles (AK-47, G3, AKS-74U etc.).
- Make future INS maps with less open spaces like deserts.
- Change INS respawn time to 20 secconds.
- Make INS sprint faster (no heavy gear) but shorter (no military training).
- Spawn SVD and Tabuk (new model) rifles at caches.
- Add RPG-29 (model WIP) for INS, it was widely used by Iraqis example 1 hit to disable M1 Abrams tank.
- Add more respawn points around the urban areas except main base and caches.
- Spawn RPG-7 with Tandem round.

Add these changes and the INS will be balanced again.

[SterrUwe321]

IrRahman;1957653']My ideas:

- Add more respawn points around the urban areas except main base and caches.

What would be great are fixed spawn points all over the map.
I'm working on a Syrian Map rightnow and what i want to implent are fixed spawnpoint that are overrunned as soon the enemy is within 300-500m of it...just to give the Insurgents the ability to appear everywhere on the map.

They are insurgents, they've grown up in those towns, they live on the map.
They shouldn't be limited to spawn at the mainbase only.
Mainbase for Insurgents? really? quite unrealistic if you ask me.

If you want to set up a random ambush you mostly have to take a car, get your squad together, build a Hideout, build a SPG and wait for the enemy.
BUT mostly you die while driving to your destination.

Maps should simulate cities with thousends of habitants.
In reallife there are not only Insurgents driving around, there are a lot of civillians of which you got to take care of.
In order to simulate that the INS team should be able to spawn everywhere.
A red diamond on the map shouldn't tell the blufor where to look out.
Unfortunely it's impossible to have like 500 bots running around as civis on the map

[Pronck]

Dear Devs,

Are you going to do anything against the forced raping Insugency 1.0 has become? Or do you guys denies that insurgency is imbalanced?