[Video] SPG vs Infantry

[[FSA]IrRahman]

Direct hit with PG-7 Heat round and nothing.
This has to be fixed, I could eliminate 8+ person if this weapon was lethal.

[MertSahin]

Rahman, for some reason FRAG round is more effective in the SPG, HEIT is for armour

[[FSA]IrRahman]

Rahman, for some reason FRAG round is more effective in the SPG, HEIT is for armour

I know that, but I already ran out of the frag rounds and instead of going back to main base and reloading, I wanted to setup an ambush. Any type of heat round should melt these guys and even with direct hits (i think the last one was even a headshot) they are still running.
The same is for the RPG-7 heat rounds, direct hit won't kill the enemy.
This is ridiculous...

[MertSahin]

yea i see now what you mean, yea allround the HEIT round shut be more effective against infantry +1

[K4on]

The same is for the RPG-7 heat rounds, direct hit won't kill the enemy.

Sounds weird. In our current DEV version its already fixed though, if this was true.

[chrisweb89]

Rahman, for some reason FRAG round is more effective in the SPG, HEIT is for armour

What is this HEIT you speak of?

[MertSahin]

What is this HEIT you speak of?

yea misunderstanding i mean PG-9 HEAT chris

[Solid Knight]

Any rocket that explodes should kill people within a meter or two of it. The concussive force from the blast, even shaped, would be enough to do it.

[SpectrePR]

I generally find every AT weapon in the game to be far less effective against infantry than pre 1.0. No expert, but definitely vibes a little unrealism when a HAT hits at my feet and I don't even start bleeding. The insurgents main weapon, the RPG, loses a lot of combat effectiveness and use because of this too.

[3ti65]

Yeah also an humvee surviving an rpg shot... is in no way realistic... even if its uparmored.

You can kill a humvee faster with a pkm then with an rpg now.

IMO many of the insurgent maps are imbalanced now because of the rpg being useless.

And i know there is the uparmored version of the humvee, but seriously, for an rpg round it doesnt really matter... It should just be able to withstand small arms fire better.

[ralfidude]

I have fired an AT-4 into the side of a logy truck, it kept going without so much as smoke coming out of it.

Either we should be using logy truck parts for body and tank armor or something is severely screwed up here.

[Solid Knight]

I have fired an AT-4 into the side of a logy truck, it kept going without so much as smoke coming out of it.

Either we should be using logy truck parts for body and tank armor or something is severely screwed up here.

Those sort of things happen and I don't know why. Sometimes I have to nail a tank six or seven times with another tank's cannon before it goes down. I've also had a BMP2 survive a TOW missile after a direct hit at 200m. It didn't even smoke and the missile did hit it (not just near it).

I've also been shot and took no damage.

[SpectrePR]

AFAIK that was done even before 0.97, as HATs, TOWs, LATs were too muched used against infantry. A nerf of the effectiveness against infantry by ATs between 0.98 and 1.0 has never happened though.
However, handheld ATs got buffed slightly against infantry again for the next version.

If you say so, I stand corrected on my timing. Though, they definitely "feel" less effective to me--either due to the awesome explosion animations or a variant of the "weak bullet" problem, where damage is entirely not detected.

You guys may have already figured this inside and out, but here's a theory on damagless bullets. As far as I know, I notice damageless bullets more often in my favor than not. Especially when an enemy AR fills me up. Thud-idididididid--rapid hits not registering in clumps, blood mist poofs all over. Just a speculation, but I have a theory this could be due to weapons(Such as deployed ARs) firing at me before deviation settles. They're visually missing on their end, but perhaps the client avoids calculation and registers the bullets as hitting me and showing the proper animation, while serverside does not register the actual missed shots as damage, resulting in the "weak bullet" problem. I know this happens in some older games, but don't know about PR. Will test it out sometime with some pals later.

[K4on]

I have fired an AT-4 into the side of a logy truck, it kept going without so much as smoke coming out of it.
Either we should be using logy truck parts for body and tank armor or something is severely screwed up here.

I couldn't believe what you just reported here - as code wise it doesn't make sense, I am afraid.
So I reproduced your report with the current public build, but had no luck finding your bug. Check the video below.

Yeah also an humvee surviving an rpg shot... is in no way realistic...

Same here, bug couldnt be reproduced. Made a quick test and can't follow your point above. Check the video below as well. Oh, and yeah: Uparmored hummwvs are stronger than normal hmmwvs, as they are "uparmored".
We need some more (video based) proof please, otherwise we can't do much about it, as code and ingame tests are fine. Thanks for your understanding.

I generally find every AT weapon in the game to be far less effective against infantry than pre 1.0

AFAIK that was done as HATs, TOWs, LATs were too muched used against infantry.
Here a (pretty bad) video of 0.96 PR [0966] - AT
But yeah, agree on this. Handheld ATs got slightly buffed in their splash damage for 1.0.37.0 again



Now here the video about trying to reproduce the reported "bugs" above.





PS:
As this thread is more about complaining bugs than showing ingame content, it is moved to the right forum section.

[_Fizzco_]

I believe the issue behind the Logi as k4on has stated in the video, you hit the cloth and nothing will happen.

[Murphy]

Hit boxes are evil, let's not lose sight of that. I have smacked hundreds of vehicles with AP rounds from various tanks only to have the vehicle continue on its way (freaked out most of the time). I think there are also certain materials used on various vehicles that are basically invulnerable, the cover over the bed of a logistic truck or the glass on a hmv are some examples of places I've hit with AT weapons and AP rounds from armour. I've also had huge issues with choppers being impervious to tank rounds, most of the time my driver thinks I missed (possible due to lag/netcode) but then there are other times were we both say "WTF".


I honestly don't think this issue can ever be completely rooted out because of the game engine the developers have to deal with. I don't know though, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a 100% fix.

[Mats391]

I believe the issue behind the Logi as k4on has stated in the video, you hit the cloth and nothing will happen.

This. It is stupid to have one of the biggest areas on a vehicle be "immune" to damage. Its like changing small arms to deal little to no damage when hitting torso of a blufor soldier, cause you know - bodyarmor.
Also the cloth might be penetrable but the cargo area would be filled with all sorts of stuff that would stop the rocket.

[Gracler]

This. It is stupid to have one of the biggest areas on a vehicle be "immune" to damage. Its like changing small arms to deal little to no damage when hitting torso of a blufor soldier, cause you know - bodyarmor.
Also the cloth might be penetrable but the cargo area would be filled with all sorts of stuff that would stop the rocket.

I thought that most vehicles where optimized in 1.0 to accommodate consistent damage. For example the tank's had glass properties on lights and periscope windows that if hit would instantly blow up the tank. I thought the Humvee would have been fixed too so that hitting cloth would also damage it.

For the odd incidents of vehicles shaking off damage completely I think it comes down to hit detection and in these cases it is really difficult to reproduce by test shots on a local server.

For example I've been standing right next to a Gary (literally standing up 2 meters away in plain view) that has been detonated and the tank and all the infantry around me blew up and I lived without a scratch.

Now getting back with the thread discussion id say that SPG's plus RPG's should have more damage vs infantry but other weapons like AT4 and HAT weapons should be kept as they are. Reason for this is to balance insurgency mode.

[Kerryburgerking]

Shaped charges doesn't work that way.

[Solid Knight]

Here's my idea about rockets versus infantry:

1. Slight buff to the concussive force produced by a detonating warhead. Standing next to a shape charge will still produce enough force to kill you in real life. Give it a meter or so. Direct hits should obviously kill.

2. Make a separate kit that has a rocket/missile launcher with anti-infantry missiles instead of anti-tank missiles. Hardly anyone uses the Anti-Personnel kit; you might as well make an alternate version with anti-infantry missile launchers.

There you go. That preserves the realism and makes everyone happy. If you want to blow up infantry with a rocket, pick the right kit that has the anti-infantry missiles.