PR Doesnt feel so hardcore anymore.

[Inspektura43]

Ever since 1.0 was released I feel like PR has changed alot and all the changes made PR feel more and more like Vanilla.Or rather BF3

All those nerfed vehicles all those easykills.The whole PR system went somewhat wrong.
Whenever you join a PR server now its always the same, you dont get this randomness you had in .098, the hardcore part is pretty much not there anymore.Its like, its easier to play PR now.

Please discuss, all those old players and PR vets.
How do you feel about PR now?

[TOME Malambri]

You might need to be more specific in your references. What do you mean by "not hardcore anymore"? What specifically do you feel is the issue since 1.0?
Hope that helps.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Community changed. Tournaments and events still ok.

[Solid Knight]

Now that servers support one-hundred players, you can't afford to be a slow squadleader anymore. That's pretty much the biggest difference. In older versions, there was a slower influx of enemies and less vehicles to deal with at once which meant you could spend all day micromanaging your squad and making sure everyone is completely healed before moving up the next ten meters. Now, that style of squad leading gets you pinned down and annihilated.

[ChallengerCC]

The old players and PR vets are tired off discussing about this any more.
(I warned and discussed urgent about this changes multiple times)

Consequences of this gameplay changes are present and clear to see.
Hard changes are needed and the clock is ticking. Tick tack, tick tack.

If you are interested in a slightly more tactic way of gameplay join us on our GamingDay
Tuesday and Sunday. [QRF] Hardcore Server passwort:hc
(You can find the changes here: http://www.qrf-clan.de/hc-changes.html)

[Nate.]

100 players, killing is easier, dying is easier, ironically making gameplay more fuzzy and disorganized and alongside with easy spawning it reduces the overall "hardcoreness" of the game.

But I'd be interested to read a more in-depth analysis, Inspektura

Now that servers support one-hundred players, you can't afford to be a slow squadleader anymore. That's pretty much the biggest difference.

Very good point.


/ninja'd by challenger

[Bl00dwurscht]

That?s right rPoXoTauJIo. I loved to play PR nearly dayly month to years ago when i started. Back then it was great to play with some 'random' squads. They listened to their squadleader and with some tactics and strategics ur little squad (and of couse ur team) struggled for victory. That was not that easy at all. With this 100 player layouts it has just come to another level. Now a kill of an footsoldier does not count that much anymore. With the lower deviation time the next guy knowing where u are just kills you.

Even on Muttrah u do not have any 'randomness' at all anymore. The Hat kits of the USMC camp on high buildings in solo or small 2 people teams (no squadplaying needed) and oversee the city. Otherwhise and even worse they make their kills by popping up in the mountains for 2,3 seconds just enough time to shoot their at and rearm behind it. Same to the snipers. I have never played a map of muttrah without some solo recon dude camping the mountains to laze some targets for cas.
Maybe thats how the map is supposed to be played like but for me this is getting really boring because everytime the same happens :/.
I hoped the new maps/factions would bring it to another level or at least have some more 'moving' on both sides on the battlefield but with that many players on maps like Kozelsk, Muttrah or Fallujah its just like two big 'tactical blobs' slashing each other for hours until someone has a lack of tickets...

I really mis the old feelings where u did not know what the enemy is might going to do next.

cheers and regards and sorry for my bad english

[Takeda]

Even on Muttrah u do not have any 'randomness' at all anymore.

So its exactly as it was before 1.0; 0.98; 0.8; etc.

[Spook]

Muttrah was never known for varied gameplay

Devs wanted more casual players so they made the game more casual. They reached their goal within the first month of the release. Now the causuals moved on to BF4 Beta and GTA 5 and most of the hardcore guys hang around in other games. The playercount rarely reaches 400 on EU peak times. It was not even that bad in 0.98 ... you see less clans and publics on servers. Its just a handful of big and medium sized clans that still cling to PR. Devs knew that PR was slowly dying because of its age, its normal. They tried to extend its lifetime by going more casual. It was worth a try but IMO a bad decision, I think there would still be more players around if the game would have sticked to its roots.

Since there was nothing compareable to PR, people who did not like arcade shooters but also disliked hardcore MilSim games found their place within the PR community and would stick there for a long time until a better alternative for PR would appear. Now PR is not completely unique anymore. It feels like an arcade shooter with the touch of the old PR. Thats why I still play it. Even though PR got worse (gameplay wise) there is still nothing better I could switch to. So I stick to PR. I and many others explained this in countless posts and warned of the outcome of such changes. Devs thought different and we got to live with it.

[Inspektura43]

It feels like an arcade shooter with the touch of the old PR.

This is what I wanted to tell with my post.

[Tit4Tat]

As proxo said, tournaments & events for me...and has been for a while now.


Just to add, what da fuk is up with this constant UAV thing? seriously, very bad move imo.

[Spook]

It was a good idea. You would assume making CO more attractive with perm UAV automatically increases team efficiency due to the fact that there is actually a CO doing something. Sadly most of the times the CO is just a member of a CAS unit hopping into the CO seat to laze targets for his friends.

I read somewhere they would remove Laze from the UAV completely on the next patch. Not a good idea IMO. Instead, limiting the "Laze-Ability" for a period of time which can be choosen by CO and reloaded after a certain amount of time, just like the UAV function itself worked back in 0.98, would have been the perfect solution.

[Bellator]

I think the new system has made defensive gameplay less effective, which especially hurts the insurgents. The blufor can now run and gun basically with impunity and lone wolves are abound, often with auto-shotguns (which are silly).

[Sgt. Mahi]

Can't put my finger on it. I rarely play anymore but community has defenitely changed somehow. It's hard to get a decent squad going on public servers... That and increased stamina seems to me have influenced the gameplay to the worse in my opinion

[TOME Malambri]

I think people should be the change they want to see.

If there are no functioning teamwork squads, make one and run it tactically as you see fit. If there are max squads, try to find a squad with one or two people, join it, and politely ask them if you can assume command as long as you create a functioning, communicative squad. Most people are elated to be rid of the burden of command and happy to play for a useful squad.

One issue I do agree on is the lack of full servers during the week. It seems to me that the European players all flock to the US based servers. So what you end up with is 2 full US servers and then 3 dozen other empty servers. Just an observation.

[Spook]

If we talk about Pr being less hardcore or not, we should completely let INS out of the discussion. INS was never balanced. Either INS or Blufor always won on specific maps. Meanwhile INS got so nerfed that they loose on almost all maps. I liked the gamemode as a diversion but was never able to take it serious. As Blufor your objective was to run and gun and get as many kills as possible, either as INF or as a vehicle. On maps where Blufor won most times only medium to no teamwork was needed to win the map. On maps where INS were superior you would need epic teamwork to have a chance against a decent INS team, but since thats impossible on 90% of all public rounds you would just try to get the best out of it and do your thing with your squad.

As INS you would not give a fuck at any point. Screw K/D, screw your team. Just do whatever you think is funny. Bullshit around and try to be effictive against the enemy team in any way you think would fit you most.

INS is a unique gamemode which you will not find anywhere else working out that good. Its fun sometimes but cannot be played seriously in public. Even organized wars on INS are nonsense IMO. While one team has all their fancy toys and trys to be tactical the other team does the opposite. Sits their asses of on ambushes or whirs around the map and engages with single units from everywhere. Thats how it is supposed to work, but thats not a real contest. I would not be proud of a victory as an INS in a clanwar, knowing all I was doing was ninjaing around the map, never facing the enemy directly and just keep stabbing his back until he fell. The same goes for Blufor. I would not be proud to have 500 kills with my team, by putting vehicles in superior positions and just farm the whole enemy team without facing a real opponent.

Its just meh..

I want equal maps, where the enemy has the same chances to win the fight. Where the winner actually is the one who used his assets and resources smarter.

INS was never hardcore, it was always used as a break between serious matches to get peoples minds relaxed and ready for the next real hardcore battle on AAS.

I'd say we should focus on how AAS got more arcadish here.

[Anderson29]

I'd say we should focus on how AAS got more arcadish here.

well that's easy man, 1 word....RALLIES!

want arcadish, make more spawn-points

want realism, make less spawn-points

it's that simple.

i have been playing pr since the beginning and i along with many others debated real hard to get rallies removed or severely limited for .9X.
my thought process was eventually the removal of spawning on fobs would come next (but keep the building up of defenses in place) and make supply lines of troops and ammo that much more important. hell we had people running supplies and trans sqds (not just helo trans but with trans trucks) when we only had 64player servers, now with 100p we can have more infantry; and transport sqds and supply sqds wont be so bored if we leave everything else alone.....but i was wrong....and now we have the pr we have today.

go figure.

with the new rally system no one hardly needs trans or supplies,
extra armor for some reason...like that's what was missing before in kashan for example...more tanks and apcs

[Frontliner]

INS to me seems to be pretty pointless. In the end it's just AAS with a Breacher or Engineer needed to capture while mowing down waves of ill-equipped opponents, some of which unarmed or just barely above that. And before anyone says "It was like that all the time before, duh.", no it was not. Previously, you set up your little insurgent camp, faking the presence of something that wasn't there while draining their tickets. As for BluFor, you could go on a little hunt, searching through house after house until intel arrived, you got trapped or you -out of luck or instinct- found the cache. This doesn't exist any longer, now even IF there is something where you are looking, you can't do anything, so it all boils down to BluFor farming kills in a safe distance to make a(or both) caches appear, and then pack 40 rifles with scopes and armored elements against the described above and the outcome is -outside of a few maps/"bad" cache layouts- a slaughter.

As for AAS, it's a combination of already mentioned elements(perma/instant redeploy UAV, lowered deviation, larger squads, perma rallies, and so on).

[obpmgmua]

IMO the quality of gameplay has gone down significantly. I have fond memories of PRs past and 1.0 is forgettable. .98 was nearly perfect. 1.0 feels like a chore to play and sometimes I feel as if I'm punished for playing at all.

.508 how great you were. Hey if somebody can find me a copy of it I'll setup a .508 server on my network and we'll play basrah and ghost train like in the good ol days. Don't worry about patch 1.5, I'll seed BF2 patch 1.43 copies you just gotta put in your own CD code.

[Gracler]

Even well prepared defense seems to be overrun much easier in 1.0 with the new UAV and quicker deviation settlement.

Seems now more than ever everyone attacks. They attack the enemy flag or they attack the flag they are about to lose. This constant attack makes it feel very BF3-ish and I'm missing the strong defense lines that could be kept going without the need to counter attack like crazy.

Yes yes... offence is the best defense someone is gonna say, but offence on offence does feel like an arcade game.


I however think that the 100 player count is a good change and it is the permanent rally-point that is ruining it making it feel like 500 player count. I know that the rally will vanish now if not near a FOB but the FOB alone is a good enough spawn point, which has also been made harder to destroy with the c4 change.

Revert the rally system, limit the UAV ability's or time, and crank up the deviation settlement time so it is easier to defend again.
That would get it closer to the PR experience I like.