Al Basrah INS problems

Bringerof_D
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Joined: 2007-11-16 04:43

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by Bringerof_D »

Mikemonster wrote: Although personally I think the Insurgents get an easy ride. The terrain on Basrah ISN'T flat. There is so much dead ground to use if you crouch or crawl. The lack of hills helps, as it reduces Blufor's view of you when you creep towards them.

Although most insurgents take the trusty AK and just sprint at the enemy, then complain about imbalance because they get shot a bit [facepalms].
there is not enough low ground for that to actually work. i've played basrah fairly thoroughly on both sides and as an APC gunner and driver. the most popular places for APCs to sit generally the low ground around it is in plain view. and theres no way to sneak around the areas. for example up on the highway on the south end of the map. with any half decent blufor team they can have that entire portion of the map locked down as they can see into every pocket of low ground in the immediate area. also in order to use said dead ground, you must first go beyond the walls, which in most cases is completely open ground with no areas low enough for cover for about 50 meters or more. those 50 meters exposed ground can also be perfectly covered by fire from almost any of the surrounding areas.

The areas north of the village is better, however division made by the river makes it difficult for infantry to get across and flank blufor positions. accompanied by the DOD which then limits the angles of which they can approach. any particularly good low ground to the east of the northern half of the map is generally too far away from those popular setup locations to be of any use.

as for insugents that grab Aks and run out at the Blufor. to be frank in many cases thats the only way to play Al Basrah specifically. there aren't enough enclosed compounds with enterable buildings where caches are hidden to defend. Most of the caches even within the city are open air. To take up defensive positions around the cache is at times impossible as the APCs can just pound the walls around you and kill everyone anyways and all you're doing is losing intel to the blufor. at those times the only chance is to go on the offensive and hope you can take out the APCs.

as for realism, sure thats how it went. but we also have to remember this is still a game. realism wont get the mod very far if nobody wants to play the other team. which for Al basrah currently is where it's headed Also you say its realistic for the blufor to pound away at the insugents with APCs but its not, to a certain degree yes but for example the village, it is not realistic for blufor to simply sit back and completely flatten the village. they do if they absolutely need to, however on basrah this has become the immediate go to plan is sit back, flatten it with the APCs and tanks then take out the cache either with the tanks and APCs if they can see it or roll in completely unopposed with infantry. it's not impossible to deal with the current situation on the map, it's just unreasonably skewed at the moment towards blufor victory. and judging from your response i'm fairly confident in guessing that everytime the map comes up or for insurgency in general you're the kind of person who's clicking to switch over to blufor as soon as you can.
Last edited by Bringerof_D on 2013-10-05 19:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Ason
PR:BF2 Developer
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Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by Ason »

Mikemonster wrote: It may be realistic but in real life the Insurgents got stomped as well!
^This!
I don't understand why people expect iraqi insurgency to be balanced when there were never any balance in real life. In the 2nd battle of fallujah like 95 US soldiers died and more than 1000-1500 insurgents.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if we look at how the insurgents operate today/after the US "stabilized" the country it consists mostly of very small skirmishes, like one sniper taking out one soldier or a small group attacking a base for a little while and then retreating.

I think insurgency needs to be reworked.
One idea which I have had in mind for a while, which needs maybe a lot more thinking and redesign is like let the US get "caches" to work like ares to stabilize and protect from insurgents, while the insurgents would mostly focus on killing these "caches" but mainly killing US soldiers for points, basically increase tickets lost for every blufor killed. In real life if insurgents manage to kill only 1 blufor that is considered a victory for them no?

maybe not correct thread but I think it's related to insurgency.
obpmgmua
Posts: 397
Joined: 2013-05-19 20:51

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by obpmgmua »

The M Column is useless. And the bottom left hand corner is pointless.

Expand the city to cover the entire map just like fallujah except in key parts like around the VCP and Palace. And put underground tunnels leading from the mosque to other parts of the city so insurgents can get to key places safely without being shot. It be quicker to use Vehicles but it be more dangerous.
Mikemonster
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Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by Mikemonster »

Bringer, in general I agree to be honest.
Bringerof_D wrote:it's not impossible to deal with the current situation on the map, it's just unreasonably skewed at the moment towards blufor victory. and judging from your response i'm fairly confident in guessing that everytime the map comes up or for insurgency in general you're the kind of person who's clicking to switch over to blufor as soon as you can.
Actually the opposite, I just don't believe in making exceptions for myself. I usually play Insurgent.
Bringerof_D
Posts: 2142
Joined: 2007-11-16 04:43

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by Bringerof_D »

Mikemonster wrote:Bringer, in general I agree to be honest.



Actually the opposite, I just don't believe in making exceptions for myself. I usually play Insurgent.
lol i guess i'll eat my words then, sorry for the accusation.

As mentioned above the most realistic way to play insurgency would be if one or two people camped out on their own and picked off a few blufor then back off. but once more that type of play just isnt possible on al basrah. I know because thats the way i play all insurgency maps. due to the large amount of players and the confined city spaces on the map. you can't really stealth it as an insurgent as everyone ends up moving to the same area instinctively. Almost any spot that is useful for ambushing blufor and retreated is also the only place which is defensible in large numbers.

also as mentioned before the ground around the city is just so open that the few that choose to get away from the city and the caches inside, to ambush or pick off blufor farther away, generally get blown to bits by APCs as soon as they go beyond the city limits. theres also far too many pieces of high ground that can see directly into the pockets of cover that the insurgents do have that they can hide in once they leave the city.

honestly a good quick fix might be just to add a slum or congregation of huts and tents along the road leaving the city that passes under the bridge on the main road through the city. westward out into where the crop fields are currently.
Information in the hands of a critical thinker is invaluable, information alone is simply dangerous.
SterrUwe321
Posts: 80
Joined: 2011-06-28 10:14

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by SterrUwe321 »

Guys I love Al-Basrah <3
Al-Basrah is why I finally fell in love with PR. Basrah and Muttrah from 0.4
But let's face it.
Basrah needs an update.
The city is too small. The Caches misplaced. The Village cannot be defended and the APC crew likes to keep an eye on the mainbase.

I wish we can remain both, Basrah old and Basrah updated, in the Future.
Basrah as it is rightnow should always stay in PR for the vets.
"STUPID Freeman0092" so genius

playing PR since 0.45
STORM-Mama
Posts: 735
Joined: 2008-02-19 08:10

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by STORM-Mama »

Mrslobodan wrote: I think insurgency needs to be reworked.
One idea which I have had in mind for a while, which needs maybe a lot more thinking and redesign is like let the US get "caches" to work like ares to stabilize and protect from insurgents, while the insurgents would mostly focus on killing these "caches" but mainly killing US soldiers for points, basically increase tickets lost for every blufor killed. In real life if insurgents manage to kill only 1 blufor that is considered a victory for them no?
Didn't the VCP use to be something like this? A "flag" that had to be defended, otherwise you'd loose tickets as in an AAS game. Korengal had something similar, maybe I'm thinking about that one...

I think it's a good idea. Would lock a portion of the bluefor team to defending a point, so not all the 100 guys can be used for hunting caches.

SterrUwe321 wrote: The city is too small. The Caches misplaced. The Village cannot be defended and the APC crew likes to keep an eye on the mainbase.
The city and village should be connected by a corridor of cover. More building, compounds and ditches along the road between the two. Would be good, not only from a gameplay-perspective. Would look better than it does currently, when the city just suddenly "stops".
Last edited by STORM-Mama on 2013-12-07 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
waldov
Posts: 753
Joined: 2012-06-26 04:01

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by waldov »

Mrslobodan wrote:^This!
I don't understand why people expect iraqi insurgency to be balanced when there were never any balance in real life. In the 2nd battle of fallujah like 95 US soldiers died and more than 1000-1500 insurgents.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if we look at how the insurgents operate today/after the US "stabilized" the country it consists mostly of very small skirmishes, like one sniper taking out one soldier or a small group attacking a base for a little while and then retreating.

I think insurgency needs to be reworked.
One idea which I have had in mind for a while, which needs maybe a lot more thinking and redesign is like let the US get "caches" to work like ares to stabilize and protect from insurgents, while the insurgents would mostly focus on killing these "caches" but mainly killing US soldiers for points, basically increase tickets lost for every blufor killed. In real life if insurgents manage to kill only 1 blufor that is considered a victory for them no?

maybe not correct thread but I think it's related to insurgency.
Good points but to be fair if an insurgent in Fallujah had his leg blown off he wasnt flown to a world class medical facility in 30 minutes or less. Remember for every American killed far more are wounded so badly they are unable to return to service, so in Fallujah permanent losses for the US army would've actually been in the hundreds the number of dead are just the tip of the iceberg in this case.

I really like the idea of the US securing areas though Insurgents very rarely counter attack in real life. Still if you like this idea you might want to check out this suggestion.
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illidur
Posts: 521
Joined: 2009-05-13 12:36

Re: Al Basrah INS problems

Post by illidur »

I like the land bridges being hidden. most people don't know about them and those that do may die trying. They can be mined like any bridge. In fact the mines are even more deadly because its hard to see under water.

I disagree about insurgents being underpowered. I like to play that faction most.
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