Impressions on Insurgency

[fatalsushi83]

I love new deviation for the RPG and the fact that you can use it effectively against infantry but it still seems a little underpowered against armored vehicles. On Fallujah I hit a LAV directly in the back at close range and it just drove away. I did the same to a Stryker, which was already damaged and had light smoke, on Kokan and it also drove away and got repaired. I'm not sure how effective RPG-7s are against these vehicles in real life but I imagine hitting one (or at least a damaged one) in the rear armor should destroy it.

[Rabbit]

I love new deviation for the RPG and the fact that you can use it effectively against infantry but it still seems a little underpowered against armored vehicles. On Fallujah I hit a LAV directly in the back at close range and it just drove away. I did the same to a Stryker (which was already damaged and had light smoke) on Kokan and it also drove away and got repaired. I'm not sure how effective RPG-7s are against these vehicles in real life but I imagine hitting a damaged one in the rear armor should destroy it.

Maybe I'm talking out my ***, but I always thought with APC/IFV you do better hitting them in the turret or front side, as that is where the engine is. Hitting them in the back you are hitting no important parts of the APC/IFV.

[K4on]

no, turrets are mostly armored like the front.

apart, the LAV25 hull is armored everywhere the same due to its col mesh. we need a proper mesh which we don't have.
also, not always an RPG hit was critical, so vehicles have a slight chance to not get disabled even if they are smoking black.

[Murphy]

The RPGs are not underpowered at all, in fact since the newest patch I am beginning to feel that RPGs are almost too effective. I haven't had a chance to crew an APC/IFV on ins yet but from what I've seen of others the RPGs are taking vehicles out very easily now. The damage done might be a little severe considering the accuracy buff the weapon received. I watched two guys make 400-500 meter hits on their first try on two different occasions, the weapon is finally something to be feared again but I feel we are on teetering on the edge of it being a little too effective.

[XMOCROX]

RPG's are perfect now.. Not overpowered, just how it is in real life. If you're walking by and get shot by an RPG, you're dead how it should be. It fixed the cache rushing with apc's, as well as infantry. You have to be aware of ambushes everywhere. It didn't make any sense on the previous version how an apc would we able to get within 20m of a cache containing rpg's. The apc's now have to give distance support behind a tree/wall or something and actually teamwork with another apc to keep looking for rpg's and give cover fire for infantry moving in. And if not, the apc gets shot down and the infantry are a clear target for rpg's and everything.

[Mikemonster]

Nothing has changed since 1.0 in my eyes - Blufor still have:

- Invulnerable helis (only able to shoot them down if they have very stupid pilots).
- Invulnerable Humvees (the gunner sits with his .50 in a bullet-proof cupola and can survive an RPG - The HumveeTANK (CROW humvee) is even worse).
- Invulnerable IFV's (the Insurgents cannot spawn with an AT kit so the Strykers just drive in circles shooting everywhere at will).
- Super laser BB weapons (normally as an insurgent you get shot before you can see the enemy, and even if you do see them they always beat you to the killing shot).
- Super-soldiers that require about 4 shots to kill them, meaning it's unlikely you will win a firefight.
- Maps that favour them (wide, long streets with no means to cross that are easily camped by mentioned IFV's and Humvees - Insurgents need knocked through buildings, culverts and sewers ffs!)
- A spawn structure that encourages teamwork through the kit/transport system.
- The ability to use the 'UAV cheat' as I call it (a magical realtime video camera in a cloud that can spy on the Insurgents).
- Persistent snipers that get lots of kills from obvious places because the Insurgents cannot and do not revive, and cannot outshoot them (indestructable terrain and roofs to pop up from).

Added to this the Insurgents since 1.0 have been nerfed quite effectively, mainly through.
- Making it harder to squad lead due to not being able to have the Collaborator kit - for an absolute multitude of reasons (some mentioned above) this makes shepherding a squad of vulnerable human Bots far harder.
- All of the Blufor buffs.
l-> Almost no adjustments to Insurgent maps to allow for the Blufor buffs with equal advantages for the Insurgents - As mentioned the Insurgents are easily penned into areas in maps that have not been updated to allow for more realistic hiding or movement.


The battlefield is a lot more realistic now, which essentially denigrates the role of Insurgent players to that of intelligent Bots that are handicapped by poor assets, no body armour and poor weaponry. Meat-sacks that are guaranteed to swarm around the caches and provide good sport to 'milsim' types and K:D ratio strokers.

For a casual game of an evening I used to play Insurgent and lonewolf a bit, now I play Blufor and do the same as it's so much easier and rewarding. There's no incentive to play Insurgent any more, either as a lonewolf or as a Squad leader.

[Spook]

Totally agree with Mike. INS was always only enjoyable as BluFor IMO. Always felt like fighting bots, but was fun getting 20+ killstreaks... I usually never played as INS and was forced to BluWhore or leave the server whenever INS was loaded. With 1.0 it got even worse and I did not play a single full round as INS since the release. With the new one-shot bug in 1.1 it finally got completely unplayable and I immidiatley leave the server if any map with any INS faction is loaded and I am on its team. YOu are unable to give any feedback to 1.1 INS since every round ends with like 300:50 K/D for Blufor.

Please just release the hotfix and do not wait for the next big patch. Half of PR's Maps are bugged and cannot be played properly right now.

[obpmgmua]

@Mike

I 100% agree with you. After the initial novelty of the update wore off, I realized we're having the exact same problems as before. Everything about Insurgency is geared towards blufor's favor. The only maps were opfor has a chance are ARF, Taliban, and Militia maps.

Insurgents are fucked. Hands down. The only valid tactics they have are suicide based. Either as Civi Martyrs or RKG suicide bombers. RKG suicide bombers are annoying as hell for me because they usually end up giving the blufor intel.

[Human_001]

Nothing has changed since 1.0 in my eyes - Blufor still have:

- Invulnerable helis (only able to shoot them down if they have very stupid pilots).
- Invulnerable Humvees (the gunner sits with his .50 in a bullet-proof cupola and can survive an RPG - The HumveeTANK (CROW humvee) is even worse).
- Invulnerable IFV's (the Insurgents cannot spawn with an AT kit so the Strykers just drive in circles shooting everywhere at will).
- Super laser BB weapons (normally as an insurgent you get shot before you can see the enemy, and even if you do see them they always beat you to the killing shot).
- Super-soldiers that require about 4 shots to kill them, meaning it's unlikely you will win a firefight.
- Maps that favour them (wide, long streets with no means to cross that are easily camped by mentioned IFV's and Humvees - Insurgents need knocked through buildings, culverts and sewers ffs!)
- A spawn structure that encourages teamwork through the kit/transport system.
- The ability to use the 'UAV cheat' as I call it (a magical realtime video camera in a cloud that can spy on the Insurgents).
- Persistent snipers that get lots of kills from obvious places because the Insurgents cannot and do not revive, and cannot outshoot them (indestructable terrain and roofs to pop up from).

Added to this the Insurgents since 1.0 have been nerfed quite effectively, mainly through.
- Making it harder to squad lead due to not being able to have the Collaborator kit - for an absolute multitude of reasons (some mentioned above) this makes shepherding a squad of vulnerable human Bots far harder.
- All of the Blufor buffs.
l-> Almost no adjustments to Insurgent maps to allow for the Blufor buffs with equal advantages for the Insurgents - As mentioned the Insurgents are easily penned into areas in maps that have not been updated to allow for more realistic hiding or movement.


The battlefield is a lot more realistic now, which essentially denigrates the role of Insurgent players to that of intelligent Bots that are handicapped by poor assets, no body armour and poor weaponry. Meat-sacks that are guaranteed to swarm around the caches and provide good sport to 'milsim' types and K:D ratio strokers.

For a casual game of an evening I used to play Insurgent and lonewolf a bit, now I play Blufor and do the same as it's so much easier and rewarding. There's no incentive to play Insurgent any more, either as a lonewolf or as a Squad leader.

-Helicopter: I don't quite agree. If players are experienced they can take down Cayuse (LB) and Jet Ranger (Kiowa) with rifle fire. Problem is not that heli is invincible but how they maneuver.
Heli (actually everything that flies) in PR flies around like UFO with ultra fast acceleration and maneuvers in a way that will rip aircraft to pieces if done in real life due to G load and instability that will happen to main rotor.

However I think it is somewhat strange that Blackhawk and especially Iroquois (Huey) has a bulletproof fuselage, instead of penetrable ones like in LB and Kiowa. I mean, it isn't that way IRL is it? If there is any aircraft outthere that has all-over bulletproof fuselage that can fly it is mind blowing.

-Humvee: I think uparmored humvee is Great. I think everything is depicted correctly exept for non shattering windows. So whatever disadvantage Opfor get from Blufor using uparmored humvee is greatly contributing to realistic simulation.

-Super soldier/tough APC: IRL soldiers do wear vest with chest plate that can stop fullsize rifle round point blank range. RPG isn't instantly effective just because you hit with it. It has to hit at right angle or it can ricochet IRL. You have to hit the right spot to be effective. If not it is nothing but a jet of metal going through one side of Armor and going out the other side. Considering these factors I think it can be thought as depicting these randomness.

-UAV: I think IRL UAV and Sat. are as capable.



-I do agree with you on bad K/D ratio. I think it is due to

1.Ineffective Iron Sight. Though I am not in favor of zoom.

But, again... since the view distance of this game is only about 1000m max in largest map, You can think these disadvantage as depicting real iron sight disadvantage at longer distance. Just times 2 to all of distance, and voila.
Usually you can shoot with ironsight up to 200m effectively(PR), Scoped can shoot back much more effectively beyond that, say 300m. Just think of it as being able to shoot with ironsight effectively at 400m(IRL), Scoped having clear view at 600m, and max view distance is 2000m.

One thing I noticed. Is the INS weapon zeroed correctly? I tested them by putting dot on my screen with Blufor rifle scope, then comparing it with INS ironsights and sniper scopes. It doesn't seems to be correctly on center. Or does this not matter? Or what I saw was mistake?


2.Unrealistic Terrain. Needs more vegetation and ups and downs.

3.Non experienced/simple minded players. If your weapon is ineffective and terrain enhances the disadvantage then you have to figure out another tactic. Too many players either lacks experience or too simple minded for infantry simulation styled game.

[illidur]

I'm not having many problems. INS gamemode is better than ever. Intel matters now! Thanks devs!

One gripe I have is that IEDs don't seem very effective at destroying bridges. On that note, CSB's are pretty much impossible to kill as insurgent unless you use a bombcar. I tried RPGs, SPGs, and all ieds. Gary destroyed one, but why would you waste a bombcar on a CSB?

[fabioxxxx]

It's a little better if you not consider the one shot kill bug...

bring back the shovels devs ... what a cheap shot, or at least remove the shovels from your beloved blufor respective kits. Jesus Christ is just a freaking shovel hahahah it's so absurd that makes me laugh.

[Mikemonster]

A previously invisible Kiowa appeared!

Kiowa used flares!

It's Super Effective!

Kiowa used Fly..

it disappeared!


Flawless tactic for CAS pilots against those useless SA-7's: Dive vertical and pop flares. By the time the lock timer ends on the SA-7 you will be just flying out of view distance. I don't mind the pilots doing it, it just annoys me that it's a sure-fire way of being invulnerable.

One of the many counter-intuitive aspects of insurgency.

It's a shame that we can't increase the view distance but in a 'cone' above each player - This way enemy aircraft won't just appear out of thin air and then disappear again.

[Murphy]

Flawless tactic for CAS pilots against those useless SA-7's: Dive vertical and pop flares. By the time the lock timer ends on the SA-7 you will be just flying out of view distance. I don't mind the pilots doing it, it just annoys me that it's a sure-fire way of being invulnerable.

It's true, but only the most skilled pilots will be able to put ordinance on target with such a limited window of opportunity. I have seen very few pilots successfully pull this tactic off, but when they do I agree it is damn near impossible to counter effectively. This often results in AA camping routes to and from main, and the CAS guys bitching about "camping main".

Damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

[moj]

Overall, aside from bugs (ins mortars and one-shot kill), I'm rather pleased with the new update. RPGs and a lack of nades for AK and G3 kits was always a main gripe for me, and it's really nice to see these sorted out.

The game mode in general still isn't as awesome as it was 2 or 3 years ago (or however long ago it was we had molotovs), but I doubt it ever will be. Still, once these bugs are fixed I'll be quite content to play as insurgent once again (it's been a while)

[fatalsushi83]

- Maps that favour them (wide, long streets with no means to cross that are easily camped by mentioned IFV's and Humvees - Insurgents need knocked through buildings, culverts and sewers ffs!)

I agree. Because of all the impassable walls and the buildings that you can't go into, insurgents are often forced to run down open streets where they just get picked off. But adding holes to walls and sewers, etc. would require overhauling the maps, which I image is really time-consuming.

I think the problem that remains with insurgency is the player count. Whenever I play with around 60 people or less on maps like Fallujah or Al-Basrah, it makes for a slower-paced strategic game because it allows the insurgents to move around, flank, plant IEDs, counter-attack, etc. When you have 100 players on these maps, there are so many bluefors that they just box you in. If you even attempt to move away from the cache area to do something strategic like flank, you get picked off, and if you stay on the cache, you get overwhelmed.

Also, the 100 player count means that more insurgents die and that new caches go up very quickly. And those new caches usually already have bluefors close by because of, once again, the large player count. The only time I've seen this countered is when a full squad of collaborators continuously martyred by running into mortar fire and enemy armor kill. Not a single new cache went up...but what fun is that?

I think easiest solution is to convince HOG or CIA make one 64 player server geared for smaller maps (I think they have two servers each, anyway). But I understand that's something to ask the server admins, not the devs. Any other suggestions?

[K4on]

Also, the 100 player count means that more insurgents die and that new caches go up very quickly. And those new caches

nope, as we increased the needed intel according.

[fatalsushi83]

nope, as we increased the needed intel according.

Did you increase it in the latest update?

[Arab]

There will always be ups and downs in a round, hence why teamwork and communication is important. Also encouraging others to use assets will make your team win, plus a commander to uav and provide intel, strategies etc. It's easy to do.

[Murphy]

After having played enough hours I believe a big reason insurgents feel worse then before is because they are prone to losing a one on one fight, where as before they were generally at the advantage. It was not only due to the nature of defending and having more freedom of movement as well as the ability to pick where to fight, but also because their infantry weapons stood toe to toe with anything NATO could toss as them.

The changes to the insurgent kits aren't bad, and there is obvious effort being put towards the realistic armament of the conflict as well as some tweaks to help out here and there. I realized that isn't really the issue here, and with RPGs being quite effective (I personally have to get used to them again, for the 5th time) I see BLUFOR vehicles destroyed more often then ever before. I've come to the conclusion that the AK series of weapons is holding the insurgents, as well as most unconventional and the Russian factions, back where as before it was always a trade off of strengths.

The AK used to wreck in CQC, and the AKS-U was something to fear. The M16 series has a bug with limbs, and it is easy to let that skew your judgement, but this change happened before that issue arose and I do believe I mentioned something on it (I bet it was only 1 page ago with my luck). The left and right shaking is rather overdone, and to my knowledge quite unrealistic.

I have never personally fired an AK-47, nor have I been lucky enough to get any range time with any of the AK series weapons. I have however got my hands on my share of CAF light infantry weapons, and have been around fire arms my entire life. I would imagine the recoil felt on the AK is largely due to the hunk of steel (ak bolt) cycling, combined with the "wrist" being angled down instead of inline with the barrel and that whole gas powered mechanism magic we all take for granted.

Now the other debatable topic pertaining to this whole schpeel is that a man who was given proper instruction and allowed ample time to familiarize himself with a weapon system would handle it in a more professional manner then someone who has not received the same training. This may be true, but if we are to depict professionals on one side, it must be said that their enemies are nothing to scoff at.

Insinuating a Taliban would not be able to plant a burst where it needs to be is a mockery, these are men who were born into war and have only known peace between wars, and if not these men were given experience from the Mujaheddin who were trained be the same books we read. The Militia Faction is a depiction based on Chechen militants, who have essentially been noted in every conflict involving Islam since the 90s. These men may not have been trained in a high tech facility, and they may not even care for formations and probably lack fire discipline, but they have something anyone who hasn't spent decades at war does not.

All of the factions I mentioned including Russia have loads of experience when it comes to conflict be it for the right or wrong reasons in your eyes. I fail to see why a mans arm would tremble in one case and not the other. If an AK-47 is given to a man who is well trained it is just as effective as an M16 when it comes to placing a shot at the ranges this game plays out at, there are some exceptions at longer ranges but that is a rather gray area in terms of balance.

The final consideration towards the training of the individual players respective "soldier" should be equal across the board. The USMC guys are lacking experience while the Talibans bring their hardened fighters, I don't need to make sense of it really as the only justification needed is a balanced starting point for all players. The AK weapons need to have no left and right recoil or the Nato weapons should have enough to make it a challenge to out shoot the guy who had the drop on you. You are probably of the opinion this is a step back towards previous iterations deviation system, and you are not entirely wrong.

TLDR The pacing is faster since 1.0, which is great but it's only faster for 5.56 after the 2nd shot. The balance is wrong concerning the AK series due to the ridiculous left/right recoil mechanic.

[fatalsushi83]

also, not always an RPG hit was critical, so vehicles have a slight chance to not get disabled even if they are smoking black.

OK, that makes sense. I like how there's an element of randomness here. Anyway, the RPG is great now. Thanks, devs.

The balance is wrong concerning the AK series due to the ridiculous left/right recoil mechanic.

I have to agree with this one. The side to side recoil still seems overdone especially with the AK-47 and 74. I haven't fired these myself but if you watch people shooting them on full auto on YouTube, they seem to be be very controllable, especially the 74. But in the game it just swings right and left like crazy.