I read that the Eryx missile takes around 4 seconds to travel 600m, in PR it seem to be more 2 seconds. In case that is correct the missile accelerates too fast in game. Same source also said that the maximum range is 600m. Source
Eryx is effective against static and moving tanks fitted with all types of armour including ERA (explosive reactive armour) from 50m up to a maximum range of 600m.
During flight (4.3 seconds to 600m), the gunner only has to maintain the sight on the target. Missile speed is 18m/sec at launch, accelerating to 245m/sec at 600m.
Im not sure if similar values apply to the NLAW/SRAW, but tweaking speed + adding a maximum guidance range + tumbling rockets would in my opinion balance HATs and justify a reintroduction of multiple kits.
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
Mats391 wrote:tweaking speed + adding a maximum guidance range + tumbling rockets would in my opinion balance HATs and justify a reintroduction of multiple kits.
This is the way to go IMO, this should nerf the HAT kit enough to bring back a second one to each team.
'[R-DEV wrote:K4on;1975115']If that is correct you are welcome to help. maybe you wanna talk to [r-con]zwilling first, in case you are up for it.
Did a quick poc:
550m:
[XFIRE]61bf40[/XFIRE]
900m:
[XFIRE]61bf41[/XFIRE]
I also looked around for information on the nlaw, but couldnt find as detailed info. From what i read the current acceleration is pretty realistic. For maximum ranges it always lists 600m+ (wikipedia even 1000m), but i think limiting it to 600m as well would be ok.
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
In my opinion the spin is too much and a little bit too "even", like it's spins in exactly the same way all the way.
I think the one spook posted was best so far, it has a very uneven/unpredictable flight path but the one "drop" he mentions at the end is too big imo.
Also I've never seen a white trail like that irl..
Spook wrote:love the new ballistics
look at the sudden drop just before the impact. it was like a couple of cm above the ground and somehow made it over the hill. Now it even takes a little bit of luck to hit something. Makes HAT a little less OP. Thats great and realistic IMO.
Last edited by Ason on 2014-01-12 23:41, edited 3 times in total.
Nice work Mats, looking good and moved your posts into community modding for ya
As for the deviation indicator, think that's more of a bug that some have it missing at a guess, they should all have them afaik.
As for the NLAW/SRAW, I dunno about its speed but one thing you could try out implement if your up for it is trying to add its top down attack feature of the weapon. As far as I understand the missile dose this in r/l by flying over the target in a direct path from the launcher (rather than the Javelin method of up into the sky then down onto the target) and then once its above it, it fires down a projectile into the top of the tank, penetrating its top armour.
Basic idea I have for doing this is giving the missile a proximity sensor like an AA missile in its top down attack fire mode (probably as a mag linked separate weapon or something) then the player fires the missile and aims it to go above the target. Once the missile is on top of the target it then explodes, destroying the tank. Now damage can either be done in two ways, first is by an explosion radius but I'm not too found of that idea as it will also do damage if it goes to the side of the tank etc, or second method of dropping a projectile with its destruction effect that when it touches the top of the tank, dose significant damage to it which should simulate how the weapon works in r/l too, or a mixture of both. One problem with this idea however is it might make the weapon very good vs choppers etc, not sure off hand if you can make the proximity Sensor only sensitive to land vehicles but worth looking at.
Anyways that's just an idea I've had which you could possibly look into, chances are its not going to work very well but if your up for it might be worth doing a quick POC to see
Mrslobodan wrote:In my opinion the spin is too much and a little bit too "even", like it's spins in exactly the same way all the way.
I think the one spook posted was best so far, it has a very uneven/unpredictable flight path but the one "drop" he mentions at the end is too big imo.
Also I've never seen a white trail like that irl..
The spin is rather even when you are not guiding the missile. When you start guiding it onto a moving target it gets more random. Other than your moving the target there isnt really any randomness in the code and i dont think it is possible.
I tweaked a bit more again to have it just a bit more out of control at the end.
At 700m stationary
[XFIRE]61c07f[/XFIRE]
and moving
[XFIRE]61c080[/XFIRE]
and on an actual target at 800m+:
[XFIRE]61c092[/XFIRE]
As for the NLAW and its overfly top attack mode, i dont think it is possible. And even if it were, i doubt that anyone would use it. The chances of missing the target would be way higher than with direct attack and nobody wants to waste a missile.
I ll now apply same stuff to nlaw and sraw. Is there any reason why they do not have a tumbling force?
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
They're both fire-and-forget weapons that do not change their trajectory after being fired IRL, so you won't see the constant course corrections of a SACLOS weapon. However, I suppose it could still be added to simulate just inaccuracy.
"How many posts have there been about how much better PR was back in 0.X? The fact is that if we played the older versions we would start to remember the shortcomings, but we tend to hold onto the good memories tighter than the bad ones." - Murphy
[R-CON]M42 Zwilling wrote:They're both fire-and-forget weapons that do not change their trajectory after being fired IRL, so you won't see the constant course corrections of a SACLOS weapon. However, I suppose it could still be added to simulate just inaccuracy.
True. Another possibility would be to make them unguided like the PF98. The PF98 has similar targeting to the inertia guiding of NLAW only difference is that the rocket doesnt get guided but rather the computer shows you where to aim to hit a moving target. The result however is the same: you can hit moving targets, but cant adjust trajectory after launch.
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
Looks good mats but I think the tumbling is a bit too extreme in those vids tbh, from a gameplay perspective.
Mats391 wrote:As for the NLAW and its overfly top attack mode, i dont think it is possible. And even if it were, i doubt that anyone would use it. The chances of missing the target would be way higher than with direct attack and nobody wants to waste a missile.
Yes indeed but if your up to it might be still worth a test POC to see if it can be made to work well but if not, no worries
[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Looks good mats but I think the tumbling is a bit too extreme in those vids tbh, from a gameplay perspective.
Not sure what you mean. Most of the tumbling is what you see currently in PR. What i changed is only the last bit where it flys of the target and hits the ground, this is after it reaches it 600m limit.
Yes indeed but if your up to it might be still worth a test POC to see if it can be made to work well but if not, no worries
I tried a bit but so far i couldnt even get the stupid rocket to explode within proximity of a vehicle. Do vehicles have to be manned inorder to trigger proximity settings?
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
Mats391 wrote:Not sure what you mean. Most of the tumbling is what you see currently in PR. What i changed is only the last bit where it flys of the target and hits the ground, this is after it reaches it 600m limit.
Ah ok ye after the wire has snapped, makes sense
Mats391 wrote:I tried a bit but so far i couldnt even get the stupid rocket to explode within proximity of a vehicle. Do vehicles have to be manned inorder to trigger proximity settings?
Ye I'm pretty sure the target needs to be manned, which will make testing a bit harder.
[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Ye I'm pretty sure the target needs to be manned, which will make testing a bit harder.
In that case it would be even less useful. I think vehicles that do not have a driver but a gunner are seen as unmanned and wouldnt trigger it then.
But im more after the guiding systems currently and im still unsure how to deal with the nlaw in that regard.
1. Keep it as is?
2. Very short guiding range (<300m) but flys straight? This would simulate fire and forget and the limited influence the gunner has over the trajectory after launch.
3. No guiding at all like PF98?
4. Treat as wireguided like eryx?
I would go for 2. or 3. the less guided opness the better
Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
I'm pretty sure if it has a gunner its still would work and there is also a "cool down period" after players exit a vehicle for them to be classed as unmanned too. But ye, most likley ineffective.
As for the NLAW, I would say 1, as its the closest we can do to fire and forget, other than possibly giving it the "Laser Guided" code like what Attack Chopper gunners use to fire their missiles at targets (ie, click on targets location with crosshair, missile flies towards where you clicked, even if you move the camera, if you click again in anouther location the missile flies to the updated point) but I'm not sure if that can work on handheld weapons? TBH its something we have wanted to know for some time but haven't had anyone available to experiment, but if its possible to use that code on handheld weapons it opens up a few options for us
Vehicles don't need to be manned.
Make a slideing tank ( like with 0 friction tracks) and let it slide down the hill..
The mine blows up. Also u can set the min speed to detonate. Not sure what happens if set to 0, guess it blows up always then, not tested yet.
What might be the issue is you might be looking for the proximity to a "lase/heat target" rather than a vehicle and since tanks don't have laser targets on them its not finding one? That's if there is such a thing but AA missiles don't tend to explode near unmanned aircraft so guessing there is. Check the mine code to see what it has since as K4on pointed out they work on unmanned vehicles.
