Impressions on Insurgency

[fatalsushi83]

The remote-detonated charges in the previous versions were more versatile and it was also exciting when you had to kill a breacher before he actually detonated the C4 he placed on a cache. Now you just have to wait for the charge to blow after it's placed, which is a little boring, I think. Maybe the devs changed this so that the kits with C4/TNT don't overlap too much with IED kits, which are remote-detonated? I also heard that people would make bomb cars/bikes with remote-detonated charges and that it was overpowered.

[Mikemonster]

I just lonewolfed on Al Basrah with an AR kit (as Brits) and got 10 kills. In 30 mins. At no point did I feel slightly threatened by the enemy, and I never got shot at.. If this is typical of Blufor gameplay I have no idea how people enjoy it - as a squad would have it even easier.

[Abchaz]

I just lonewolfed on Al Basrah with an AR kit (as Brits) and got 10 kills. In 30 mins. At no point did I feel slightly threatened by the enemy, and I never got shot at.. If this is typical of Blufor gameplay I have no idea how people enjoy it - as a squad would have it even easier.

It's not a typical blufor gameplay. You just get a great team, a bad team or balanced.

The game really feels high-end now. There's less and less suggestions to improve the game, because it's already amazing.

[fatalsushi83]

PR definitely feels high-end and I give credit to the devs for making such an amazing game. But in response to your comment about one team being better or worst than the other, I have to say that the way people usually play as insurgents just doesn't work because of the game mechanics.

The crowded maps don't allow insurgents the opportunity to move around much and play offensively. Most insurgent should find good camping spots near the cache (on rooftops or in buildings) and stay mostly hidden until Bluefor gets close enough. I usually find a good roof and lie prone with an RPG until I hear a vehicle come and then pop up and shoot it. Works beautifully if you have the patience. Same goes for machine-gunners, who just don't work on the move and need to just sit in a window or on a roof and cover a designated area.

The problem is that most players, including the ones who grab the good defensive weapons like the MGs and RPGs, just run at the enemy and get shot in the open. I think this has to do with the fact that when playing effectively as Bluefor you're either moving or engaged in combat, which keeps people interested and engaged. But to play well as an insurgent you have to be patient. And people just don't want to wait.

[Mikemonster]

The game really feels high-end now. There's less and less suggestions to improve the game, because it's already amazing.

Or because they have already been denied in the past, or simply aren't approved for discussion.

[Imdruid]

The thing i agree most on is the RPG mark. All HAT kits and LAT kits are fubar now. Especially some of the HAT kits. Fix Anti tank kits immediately please.

[Brainlaag]

Personally I always thought insurgency needed asymetrical teams, like a 3:2 ratio (60 opfor and 40 blufor). Shouldn't that be doable with a server script?

[fatalsushi83]

The thing i agree most on is the RPG mark. All HAT kits and LAT kits are fubar now. Especially some of the HAT kits. Fix Anti tank kits immediately please.

I'm not sure what you mean. What's wrong with the LAT/HAT kits? The RPG was improved significantly in terms of drop, deviation, and damage and it's been working great for me.

Personally I always thought insurgency needed asymetrical teams, like a 3:2 ratio (60 opfor and 40 blufor). Shouldn't that be doable with a server script?

That could be interesting, especially on maps like Archer where opfor is at a huge disadvantage because of the open terrain.

By the way, I image that after the mortar bug is fixed opfor will have a much better chance on many of the maps. There have been so many time on Archer and Basrah where I would have liked to call in mortars on enemy fobs that are difficult to get close to.

[Murphy]

I think the 60-40 balance could be a great equalizer on certain maps (Archer might not play out the same way every time), but as fatalsushi brought up mortars and we all know the bullet penetration issue will be dealt with, so it might not be so unbalanced with the next patch. It seems that opfor manages to pull some wins out despite being 1 shot fodder, so we can only hope that once firefights aren't decided by a single round the little changes to INS add up to more balanced game play.

I would still like to see an event or some sort of proof of concept for the 60-40 balance, it could be a very interesting change of pace giving the insurgents a sort of banzai/over-run option.

[_Fizzco_]

As said, soon as one shot bug is dealt with and mortars are back for insurgents the win rate is gonna shoot up. I miss insurgent mortars, made you able to hold back the tide of enemys.

[Brainlaag]

As said, soon as one shot bug is dealt with and mortars are back for insurgents the win rate is gonna shoot up. I miss insurgent mortars, made you able to hold back the tide of enemys.

It's less about the current balance but more how the gamemode should feel. Redfor should be heavily outgunned and stand no chance in a face to face situation (don't come at me with assets, I'm talking about any possible situation, even as normal grunt on foot and I have mowed down plenty of blufor squads alone with my trustworthy AK to back up my claim). Shifting their mentality to ambush and raid maneuvers (which we have) and high population zerg rushes (in the scenario of different team ratios).

[Mikemonster]

I think the 60-40 balance could be a great equalizer on certain maps (Archer might not play out the same way every time), but as fatalsushi brought up mortars and we all know the bullet penetration issue will be dealt with, so it might not be so unbalanced with the next patch. It seems that opfor manages to pull some wins out despite being 1 shot fodder, so we can only hope that once firefights aren't decided by a single round the little changes to INS add up to more balanced game play.

I would still like to see an event or some sort of proof of concept for the 60-40 balance, it could be a very interesting change of pace giving the insurgents a sort of banzai/over-run option.

Murphy/Brain - If this were done it would just make the game even more spammy for the typical zerg-minded PR player.

Instead of evening out the game the Insurgents would still just spawn in to their paralyzed spawn points, with all avenues of escape cut off by stand-off Blufor troops and die in larger numbers.

It would also encourage people even more to play Blufor.

Basically changing the team number balance wouldn't solve the problem (IMHO).

FWIW in a lot of the Ins rounds I've played recently Blufor has been fairly terrible as a team - Perhaps the lack of Blufor co-ordination is the best cure for the game-mode imbalances. Seeing insurgents win on Fallujiah and Basrah wasn't very satisfying as it was simply because both sides were playing poorly, instead of just 1.

[Murphy]

I'm not sure if I mentioned it in this thread but the new civilian intel rules are probably responsible for the majority of Blufor loses. It's good and bad at the same time imo. It does encourage target ID, and the system has actually made killing civilians bad, in the earlier versions killing a civi was usually a better call but not anymore. On the flip side the number of players throwing themselves into fire as civilians is higher then ever, so a lot of rounds are write offs because a lot of people won't even bother to identify what they are about to kill.

I do see your point about encouraging spammy play from the insurgents, but at the same time it would hopefully induce more cohesion on the blufor side. This would likely result in many camped hideouts/caches but that probably won't ever change as it's a valid blufor tactic that often gains a lot of intel. You do raise valid points though, the idea is still rough no doubt.

[Pronck]

In the past some maps had a "random" spawn. I remember Korengal for example where if you chose as Taliban the spawn point near the Blackhawk that you spawned on one of 4 possible random spawns. I think this is effective, it allows people to escape the "death-lock" of the insurgents main base and cache. Often the BLUFOR get so close to the cache and main base that spawning near it is either impossible or not useful due to the fact that you will die immediately. With this you allow insurgents to spawn behind them and do more damage then now and when the cache got destroyed you allow the insurgent team to set up positions somewhere else without getting killed after one minute.

As of now a good network of hideouts is a key to win, but not THE key to win. Mainly due to superior weaponry and vehicles the BLUFOR can easily cut off the insurgent's supply routes. IEDs are meant to stop them, but since they aren't that powerful any more most people tend to take an AK.

Another reason why the sapper kit isn't used that much as before is his weapon. The pistols are too weak as a personal defence weapon. I believe a Skorpion and Shotgun would already make it better because then the sappers can easily defend themselves and adapt to the way BLUFOR is playing. At the moment the BLUFOR tends to look for holes in the minefields, if the minefields even exists, and then they rush trough it and get up close. Whatever you do as sapper you often get stuck in "the bottleneck". The area near the cache which isn't the direct combat zone, however this area is loved by supporting BLUFOR troops, they tend to use their long-range (automatic) weapons to engage the cache area. Once this happens most sappers are basically dead since they can barely defend themselves with the current weapons.

Another thing that still bothers me is the lack of shovels on the RPK, RPG, PKM and "insurgent engi" kit. You are kind of punishing the insurgents for taking one of the few weapons that might do damage to the BLUFOR team by taking away a vital thing that is necessary to set up other vital things such as hideouts and stationary SPGs. These small things are very irritating and fixing them would be beneficial to the insurgent team.

[fatalsushi83]

Another reason why the sapper kit isn't used that much as before is his weapon. The pistols are too weak as a personal defence weapon. I believe a Skorpion and Shotgun would already make it better because then the sappers can easily defend themselves and adapt to the way BLUFOR is playing.

Yes! You really can't defend yourself with a pistol, even at close range against a single enemy. A Skorpion would be great. Not overpowered but you'd have a chance at close range.

Another thing that still bothers me is the lack of shovels on the RPK, RPG, PKM and "insurgent engi" kit. You are kind of punishing the insurgents for taking one of the few weapons that might do damage to the BLUFOR team by taking away a vital thing that is necessary to set up other vital things such as hideouts and stationary SPGs.

Completely agree here. It makes working as a squad lead all the more frustrating.

[Brainlaag]

Murphy/Brain - If this were done it would just make the game even more spammy for the typical zerg-minded PR player.

Zerging requires you to work together with other people, thus somewhat encouraging teamwork . Don't confuse zerg with chicken rushing, one is swarming the enemy, the other is running in one after another and get mown down.

It would also encourage people even more to play Blufor.

I don't think so. Don't underestimate the moral effects 20 additional guns for one side can have. It could actually wash more players into playing opfor and give them a real incientive in contrast to regular forces. Blufor get the assets and toys, opfor the numbers. You are raising valid points and it would need tweaking to be properly implemented, nonetheless I would to love see it come to PR, or tested in new events and I think gameplay would vastly profit from it

Source: Countless hours of playing in arma communities with asymmetrical teams.

[Mikemonster]

Good points by all - thanks.

[obpmgmua]

Yes! You really can't defend yourself with a pistol, even at close range against a single enemy. A Skorpion would be great. Not overpowered but you'd have a chance at close range.

A pistol is fine. I'm worried if sappers get the skorpion then people will go sapper just for the SMG spam. The biggest problem with sapper is that you're too easily identifiable. The big backpack and sunglasses give you away. I think sappers should be better able to impersonate civis. The kit should be split into two, Heavy Sapper and Light Sapper.

Standard(Heavy) Sapper = Same Model + Both IED types.
Alternate(Light) Sapper = Civi Model + Knife, Shovel, Unarmed, 'Light' Ied(Akin to Timed C4 stick) & Binoculars

And the lack of scopes is serious issue. When I'm an officer as opfor, I always tell my guys to get the spotter, marksman or sniper kit, just for the scope. Remember in .6 when the Militia Officer had the SVD and VZ.61? That was awesome. I think that all Insurgent, Taliban, ARF & Militia officers should get scoped rifles. If you don't want to give them a full auto scoped rifle than why not use the L1A1 SLR from falklands?

Lastly. There is a serious lack of Rockets for Insurgents. All other opfor factions can spawn in with LAT/RPG. Insurgents can't. I think that giving insurgents a Limited Spawnable RPG kit(1 per squad) just like the cache spawn variant would alleviate some problems.

[fatalsushi83]

You could reduce the Skorpion spam by limiting the number of clips to two, which would also emphasize that it's purely for self-defense. This would prevent people taking the kit just so they could use the Skorpion. From my experience the pistol just doesn't cut it, even as a last resort, and makes the sapper a less appealing choice.

I like the idea of having a spawnable sapper kit that has both the mines AND mortar IEDs and a sapper disguised as a civillian sounds interesting. But I don't see that much of a need for this because as a sapper you should plant IEDs near the cache before the enemy approaches, and then hide and wait. If you play like this (and I've taken out entire squads with this tactic), you don't really need to worry about attracting attention with your big backpack because you're in hiding most of the time.

I think the biggest problem with the sapper is the lack of flexibility because of the single detonator. The idea of being able to plant five IEDs but having to detonate them all at once seems impractical. Then you have to run back to the cache and replant everything but that's usually impossible because there are already enemies around. I think the regular sappers should get two detonators and as Pronk suggested, the super sapper could get a remade artillery shell IED.

[obpmgmua]

I'm done with Insurgency. It's unpleasant for both sides.

Opfor has only two valid tactics, Martyrdom and Not playing at all.

Blufor is OP as fuck. Scopes + Armor + Spawnable Heavy Assets = Overwhelming Force = Win 9/10 times.

Coupled with the double damage bug, the ability for insurgents to be able to grief their own cache with mortar IED, lack of cohesion in gameplay for this mode, makes it a chore to play for Opfor and a bore for Blufor.