Impressions on Insurgency

Post your feedback on the current Project Reality release (including SinglePlayer).
Beee8190
Posts: 473
Joined: 2011-08-26 13:40

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Beee8190 »

I have to agree with the above post that insurgency can be most of the time downright frustrating. I appreciate that to win, insurgents need
exceptional teamwork and communications as well tactics but even then it is far from guaranteed that they will be able to defend, let alone win.


IMO the underlying issues are as follows


Insurgency AK47's have far too much recoil ( more so in comparison to bluefor weapons )
making it very difficult to hit anyone even at close range and scoring a hit on moving targets involves a fair amount of sheer luck and despite playing on very high graphical settings, I find it seriously challenging to see anything with the iron sights.

I was disappointed that insurgents can no longer pick up enemy weapons which made it not only very exciting to work for and worth looking for but also encouraged bluefor to work together.
As it is, bluefor seem to be now much better off sending spies and literally everyone is just lonewolfing. Basically, cashes seem to be taken out by some random, lone breacher far from his squad.




Another issue as I see it is bluefor fire power.
Again I appreciate that bluefor has acces to wide range of cool toys just as IRL.
APC's, snipers, marksmen, mortar...the whole lot.
The issue at hand is however that when they combine them and start to destroy just about every building
when they as much as suspect there might be enemy present. That is IMO not very realistic as it allows bluefor to be simply reckless as they needn't worry about destroying civilian property or any possible civilian population and I feel that this is not very realistic.
Further, I also feel that cashes spawn at such accessible points ( like the one next to US main base on fallujah ) that this again is not only unfair but next to impossible to defend.




Some insurgency kits are rendered simply useless ( at least most of the time ) and the hand gun is barely any protection at all and I'd probably just replace it with shovel instead, as that would be more useful.
For instance I can't imagine any use for the time delayed explosives, when facing FLIR equipped vehicles and remotely detonated would be much preferred.
Furthermore I feel that the improvised AT mine remote detonated IED is far too weak in it's splash damage and to my surprise found that unless a vehicle is driving literally right over it, it's not going to cause much damage. Therefore being able to place ( and potentially detonate ) only one at the time is not effective enough.




This brings me to next point which is overall game balancing and my biggest gripe so far.
Once again I appreciate that his is only a game in the end but nerfing weapons is taking it too far and I wouldn't hesitate to speak for everyone that careful weapon or an asset nerfing to suit its role is not appreciated by anyone.

I'd welcome more accurate IRL scenario where bluefor has much shorter respawn times of their assets in its full glory and insurgents being able to build road blocks, suicide bombers and plant nasty IED and as ''many'' as they like. I'd like to see bit more tactical approach in hands of bluefor then just the scenario where bluefor unleash mortar rain, park their LAV25 next to the cache and walk out with smug smile on their faces :thumbsup:



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fatalsushi83
Posts: 551
Joined: 2013-12-03 07:49

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by fatalsushi83 »

Yeah, all good points. I know I'm repeating myself a little bit here but let me just list up the suggestions people have been making.

1. Treat the AK-47 as an AKM with a muzzle break for game purposes and lower the recoil (AKMs are much more common anyway and it would help balance the game).
2. Give shovels back to the RPG, RPK, PKM kits and take away their pistols if necessary.
3. Allow collaborators to lead squads again or at least give them an ability to mark enemy targets.
4. Add SVD rifles to the caches and increase the number of machine guns available either at main or the caches.
5. Give the sapper kits two remote-detonated IEDs each (two mortar IEDs or two mine IEDs) and a Skorpion for self-defense (can limit clip size to keep it balanced).
6. Remake the engineer/super-sapper kit by giving him something similar to the old artillery shell IED (as people have said, bluefor vehicles dominate most maps so the insurgents should have something equally powerful to balance this).

Also, being able to put up enemy rifleman kits would help to balance things a lot but I'm not sure why the devs decided to remove this feature in the first place.

Any other ideas?
Prevtzer
Posts: 648
Joined: 2012-06-13 12:19

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Prevtzer »

fatalsushi83 wrote:Yeah, all good points. I know I'm repeating myself a little bit here but let me just list up the suggestions people have been making.

1. Treat the AK-47 as an AKM with a muzzle break for game purposes and lower the recoil (AKMs are much more common anyway and it would help balance the game).
2. Give shovels back to the RPG, RPK, PKM kits and take away their pistols if necessary.
3. Allow collaborators to lead squads again or at least give them an ability to mark enemy targets.
4. Add SVD rifles to the caches and increase the number of machine guns available either at main or the caches.
5. Give the sapper kits two remote-detonated IEDs each (two mortar IEDs or two mine IEDs) and a Skorpion for self-defense (can limit clip size to keep it balanced).
6. Remake the engineer/super-sapper kit by giving him something similar to the old artillery shell IED (as people have said, bluefor vehicles dominate most maps so the insurgents should have something equally powerful to balance this).

Also, being able to put up enemy rifleman kits would help to balance things a lot but I'm not sure why the devs decided to remove this feature in the first place.

Any other ideas?
Yes, please! These are all great ideas, I'd love to see them happen.
You can't pick up enemy kits because it's very hard to distinguish between a friendly and an enemy with a friendly kit, especially because of the missing tags since 1.0. It's for the best.
Beee8190
Posts: 473
Joined: 2011-08-26 13:40

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Beee8190 »

@ fatalsushi83, good sum up, thanks.
it's very hard to distinguish between a friendly and an enemy with a friendly kit, especially because of the missing tags since 1.0. It's for the best
I am afraid I can't agree that it's for the best since the two contradict each other.

The friendly tags were removed to make it fit closer to realism but at the same time we're unable to use captured weapons? IMO we should be aware of what we're shooting at all times
and just because someone can't distinguish a friend from foe is not my or anyone alse's problem.

That is precisely why squad should stay and work together and lone wolf's are those who literally bring their weapons for insurgents to use :-)
Murphy
Posts: 2339
Joined: 2010-06-05 21:14

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Murphy »

If we could give the kits the proper geometry so insurgents that want to use M4s aren't wearing the webbing, head gear, etc.. of the enemy team then I would agree with the previous poster. Unfortunately if you're carrying an opponents weapon you are carrying their gear as well, which is going to cause a lot of issue with the lack of tags.
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fatalsushi83
Posts: 551
Joined: 2013-12-03 07:49

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by fatalsushi83 »

I noticed that in the latest version a small floating icon appears above an IED when you get close to it. This is a great addition but the icon only appears when you're less than a meter away, at which point you end up walking/running over the IED anyway. Shouldn't the range at which it appears be changed to around 5 meters so that you actually have time to react?
Tequila
Posts: 192
Joined: 2011-02-11 21:21

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Tequila »

I really dont like the loss of the civi kit on INS layers. I think it added a depth to the layer in that there were consequences for just killing everything.

I know someone is going to reply with "but tequila, just drop your kit!", but thats just not the same. Well played civis were the difference between close games and getting rolled from caches that go known the second another cache goes down.
Something something build a fob.
Psyrus
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 3841
Joined: 2006-06-19 17:10

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Psyrus »

ecfelix wrote:I really dont like the loss of the civi kit on INS layers. I think it added a depth to the layer in that there were consequences for just killing everything.

I know someone is going to reply with "but tequila, just drop your kit!", but thats just not the same. Well played civis were the difference between close games and getting rolled from caches that go known the second another cache goes down.
I know that feeeeel bro [I am/was a huge collaborator fan], but it's a new change, let's give it a bit of time and with well written feedback, map stats and putting our heads together we can figure out a good compromise. Hardly any change in the history of PR hasn't been tweaked again down the track, so I'm sure this one will get a bit more attention too :)
PlaynCool
Posts: 711
Joined: 2008-04-06 21:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by PlaynCool »

Insurgency is always frustrating, as the rounds usually take longer than aas and its unbalanced. I haven't enjoyed ins round in a long time. If you are ins. it's a rare thing to find a squad that uses tactics and teamwork. Everybody just does their own thing. Also i know it's how it is, but getting owned by an apc in fallujah from the other side of the map is not fun. Our team had like 100 kills and 400 deaths on a round i played.
Forgive my bad English... :?
obpmgmua
Posts: 397
Joined: 2013-05-19 20:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by obpmgmua »

PlaynCool wrote:Insurgency is always frustrating, as the rounds usually take longer than aas and its unbalanced. I haven't enjoyed ins round in a long time. If you are ins. it's a rare thing to find a squad that uses tactics and teamwork. Everybody just does their own thing. Also i know it's how it is, but getting owned by an apc in fallujah from the other side of the map is not fun. Our team had like 100 kills and 400 deaths on a round i played.
Was there a guy with 50+ deaths? That was probably me.

Yeah Insurgency is a *****. That's why I don't play it anymore. I can't believe that Medics and Civis can't swim. Where are the scoped rifles? Just one spawnable scoped rifle would be enough. Sappers still die too soon. Giving Insurgent medics a VZ.61 is a bad idea, because now I see people trying to be one man spec-ops squad.
=]H[=TangFiend
Posts: 265
Joined: 2008-08-14 01:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by =]H[=TangFiend »

I appreciate the recent tweaks to insurgency to slowly buff up the insurgents and inch the round victory ratio a little closer to 50%. It's the little things since the 1.0 release that go a long way without losing focus on what the insurgency game mode is about.

:razz: Thank you DEVs for
-Giving INS grenades back
-Tightening up RPG accuracy
-BINO's for all kits
-More Techies
-Fixing that damned One shot bug. TyTy
-Mortar IED's
-Tightening up AK spread

Mostly things that have been said above but can we please have:

-Shovels back on more kits
-More random spawn points AND/OR looser restrictions on hideouts
-Better defensive weapon for the poor sapper, the pistol is tragic.
-Better 3d markers for sapper IED/Mines, enough to see from a driving techie.
-Be nice to civies, no nerfs. They are so unique, charmingly PR and hilariously fun.

Insurgency has been on the right track now for months please continue to GIVE GIVE GIVE to our beleaguered bearded faction, don't take away.
K4on
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 5055
Joined: 2009-05-08 19:48

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by K4on »

Need more feedback on Fallujah https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f253-m ... sions.html and also Op Archer.
Murphy
Posts: 2339
Joined: 2010-06-05 21:14

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Murphy »

The changes to the civi kit are great, the insurgents how have a functional medic kit available and those who wish to throw themselves into the line of fire can simply drop their kit. It is a very well thought out change and hopefully we will see less forced martyr tactics.
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fatalsushi83
Posts: 551
Joined: 2013-12-03 07:49

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by fatalsushi83 »

Just played Al Basrah as an spotter for the mortar squad using the new medic kit. It was really convenient because I had the binoculars, hook, and machine pistol for self defense and didn't have to worry about getting arrested.

That said, that insurgent mortars are very, very destructive on this map. The city is surrounded by desert so British FOBs are easy to locate and bomb the sh*t out of. My squad managed to kill a FOB, one or two jeeps, an APC (I think) and around 10 infantry before the first cache even went down. It felt soooo good to see bluefor running for their lives after having been repeatedly screwed by them for the past few months.

Anyway, I think now that the mortars are back, the insurgents will have a much, much better chance on maps with lots of open desert like Al Basrah and Karbala :D
Barbrady
Posts: 121
Joined: 2013-04-03 12:07

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Barbrady »

My thoughts on Sbeneh Outskirts Insurgency are that the MEC start with too many tickets. Even if the insurgents are doing good and MEC has no good teamwork the insurgents just get tired out by the sheer amount of MEC tickets. MEC should at least get 100 tickets less in my opinion.
PlaynCool
Posts: 711
Joined: 2008-04-06 21:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by PlaynCool »

After playing quite a few insurgency rounds on the latest release i have to say, Insurgency is not fun for the insurgents anymore. Simple as that.
Forgive my bad English... :?
_Fizzco_
Posts: 266
Joined: 2009-06-17 12:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by _Fizzco_ »

PlaynCool wrote:After playing quite a few insurgency rounds on the latest release i have to say, Insurgency is not fun for the insurgents anymore. Simple as that.
As if it was fun when you were getting one shot and had even less things to play with.
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fatalsushi83
Posts: 551
Joined: 2013-12-03 07:49

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by fatalsushi83 »

Did you guys see the latest highlights? At least it looks like the insurgents might get an AKM in the near future. I just wish we'd get the artillery IED and shovels back...
Human_001
Posts: 357
Joined: 2008-08-02 10:26

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by Human_001 »

My feedback for new 1.1.1 isn't as happy as others.

Negative feedback:
I honestly liked the 1 shot 'bug'. For me it wasn't a bug. It was what I imagined it should be. 1 shot wounded stage with arm or leg, 2 for torso (AK47 vs Blufor), or 1 shot wounded torso for INS. For me everything made sense with 1 shot bug.

I also liked lack of weapons for INS. I do know the argument of balance but, it's INS mode. Its about not being balanced. More Technical and RKG make it feel... cheap.. when you win a firefight etc.



So:
I don't think INS had bad win/lose ratio due to lack of weapon balance, But it has to do with players.

I felt INS had at least 50% chance to win with new 'cache will not spawn untill intel points are gained' rule.

It feels as if because players can't learn to play the mode, the mode itself is deviating from original asymmetricalness.



Other thoughts:
Are we having AKM? Wounderful. I hope correct handling simulation comes with them too though. Or the point of having AKM diminishes.

And, I can't go without pointing out, that AKM should have straight shoulder stock. That's one of the key feature that makes a huge difference in how AKM handles.



Positive feedback:
I like the new Combat medic's outfit. I don't know if it is intended or not but I love them.

I always wanted the 'fake civilian' or 'concealed carry' kit. New kit can act as those.

I always wanted a hook with gun kit. Although it is just a Machine Pistol, New kit can act as those too, to utilize structures fully such as balcony etc as ambush spot.


I hope that these won't be removed by adding kit belt to medic or removing rope. I do however, love to see fake civilian kit if modifying medic outfit or adding rope to other class.

Others complain handgun for IED kit is bad. But I love them. Not because they are not effective, but it gives variety and thus making it more fun. For example even if you are not using IED, when you want to to go handgun you can just choose IED kit. Same with Mosin nagant. Just because they are not as deadly as opposing team does not mean it is no good.

I hope, any unique or simply fun things not be removed from this faction, as even now Iraqi INS faction is least liked faction of all.



Bugs:
New Medic for INS have the old setting of 'dying in water' used with collabolator.

Syrian Medic sprint is short as old INS collabolator.
Last edited by Human_001 on 2014-03-30 01:18, edited 1 time in total.
obpmgmua
Posts: 397
Joined: 2013-05-19 20:51

Re: Impressions on Insurgency

Post by obpmgmua »

@human

INS had such a high loss ratio because all the blufor players had(and still have) vastly superior equipment. That's changed now because of more Ins assets tipping the scales.

I always liked the Idea of a conceal carry kit or a 'fake civilian' but blufor shot to kill. I have to say that removing unarmed collaborators is a good thing because Civis can now fight back.

The VZ.61 should stay for Medic and so should the rope. Maybe make Alt Collab unarmed like before but this time make him untouchable. No matter what equipment he uses you cant shoot him. And tone down the penalties for killing a civilian. It be better if the player who killed the civi got a warning and lost X amount of intel. Instead of Warning, High intel loss and 200 second respawn time. That way blufor will have to check their fire. But it's not so severe. Accidents happen in a warzone. If you're standing next to the guy holding an RPG you're just as guilty as he is. I think the Sappers could benefit from the same changes too. Primary sapper would have the VZ.61 and both IEDs, and alt sapper would be skinned and modeled just like civi except have a smaller IED and only a knife. About pistols. I always found the Enfield/NuggetInsurgent to be underwhelming. Maybe they could get the pistols instead of Shovels or Ammo.

P.S. I think they should remove bleed for swimming for Medic and Civi, if they're in water blufor should shoot them without penalty.
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