Enemy Kit pickup

X-Alt · Post by **X-Alt** » 2014-03-23 01:36

I preferred the 0.9X system of dealing with picking up enemy kits. IMO, realism should not be compromised over the threat of TKing, it is your fault if you get shot by friendlies and the geometry issue will help discourage kit pickup abuse. If it does get re-implemented, my idea is it should be done on a case by case basis.. What I mean by this is take the Falklands or Militia v Russia, even very limited kits that are easy enough for the enemy team to learn should be allowed but per say a Chinese soldier learning how to use a SMAW would be a big no-no... Right now, HAT, LAT and Combat Engi kits are already being abused by enemy via walking it, so lowering the timer for the ones the opposing faction would have no clue how to use and allowing the free use of the ones they would be able to use easily enough would be a great boost in realism.

Militia LAT
AK-47
RPG-7 with PG7VM
RKG
etc..

Russian LAT
AK74M
RPG-26
grenade
etc..

= Similar enough for both teams to learn

/butthatsjustme

Post by **camo** » 2014-03-23 05:43

I don't entirely get what your saying. Maybe form some sentences?

MADsqirrel · Post by **MADsqirrel** » 2014-03-23 12:18

I think he is talking about takeing enemy rifleman kits again.
IRL you would never pick up the gun off a enemy, only if you don't have another choice and even then only for a short time mostly.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » 2014-03-23 13:19

MADsqirrel wrote:I think he is talking about takeing enemy rifleman kits again.
IRL you would never pick up the gun off a enemy, only if you don't have another choice and even then only for a short time mostly.

I don't know, I can imagine irregulars picking up an M4/M16 with an ACOG and preferring that over their beat-to-shit AKM built in 1961.

X-Alt · Post by **X-Alt** » 2014-03-23 13:20

MADsqirrel wrote:I think he is talking about takeing enemy rifleman kits again.
IRL you would never pick up the gun off a enemy, only if you don't have another choice and even then only for a short time mostly.

@camo, fixed

Basically, that's what I am talking about. Unless you are dealing with an ERYX or something, pretty sure they can figure it out.. The big pointy thing somewhere on the enemy weapon will equate to the charging handle on the AK or whatever they were issued with and the flap or button will usually be the magazine release. The kit geometry issue would make it undesirable to run around with an enemy rifleman kit the entire time he is alive, simulating the fact ammo is not the most common thing when running with enemy weapons of a different caliber. Say someone ran out of ammo behind enemy lines and he finds an enemy kit, he could use it until he finds a dead friendly.

We are dealing with human beings, not animals, and in some cases I think they should be pretty much fully interchangeable such as the Russia and Militia kits... The geometries look pretty much the same and I am pretty sure the Militia would prefer a lighter AK74M, easier to maintain PKP or a better RPG-7 that they already have training on.. But an insurgent should not be able to walk up, take a high-tech SRAW and turn it against a Bradley, so the timer should be reduced on those.

dysin · Post by **dysin** » 2014-03-23 13:56

i don't think that the tk's were such a big issue. certainly not as bad as fighting a stolen hat kit on ramiel, or 15 249's on fallujah. we still use these kits constantly, with the minor inconvenience of having to cycle it after a few moments.

Post by **Frontliner** » 2014-03-23 14:47

The thing is that if you were able to pick up enemy kits without restrictions, the kits don't go back to the pool of the opposing team, eg. if you steal the HAT kit it will never go back to the opposing team unless you somehow manage to recover it.

Not being able to pick up even riflemen and specialists was introduced because dressing up as the enemy is forbidden by war law.

X-Alt · Post by **X-Alt** » 2014-03-23 15:03

Frontliner wrote:The thing is that if you were able to pick up enemy kits without restrictions, the kits don't go back to the pool of the opposing team, eg. if you steal the HAT kit it will never go back to the opposing team unless you somehow manage to recover it.

Not being able to pick up even riflemen and specialists was introduced because dressing up as the enemy is forbidden by war law.

The base uniform camo is still there and I bet an unconventional insurgent would steal a BLUFOR soldier's body armor... I admit the HAT one may have been a bit too far, the 0.9X with a case by case system of dealing which kits the enemy can learn, such as a Militiaman knowing how to use a Russian RPG-26 but an Insurgent can't use an AT4.

Post by **Frontliner** » 2014-03-23 15:38

X-Alt wrote:The base uniform camo is still there and I bet an unconventional insurgent would steal a BLUFOR soldier's body armor...

We all know they would. However, they wouldn't dress up as a Blufor soldier seeing as it could likely cause them getting shot at by their comrades. Since kit appearance and kit loadout are tied together we'll have to wait for PR2.

X-Alt · Post by **X-Alt** » 2014-03-23 16:05

Frontliner wrote:We all know they would. However, they wouldn't dress up as a Blufor soldier seeing as it could likely cause them getting shot at by their comrades. Since kit appearance and kit loadout are tied together we'll have to wait for PR2.

The actual player models are incredibly easy to distinguish from BLUFOR, I think it would work. Never had an FF issue.

Post by **Frontliner** » 2014-03-23 19:22

X-Alt wrote:The actual player models are incredibly easy to distinguish from BLUFOR, I think it would work. Never had an FF issue.

You misunderstand me. As far as reality is concerned I agree they would pick up enemy rifles, equipment and body armour and they would most likely leave the camo uniform where it is. This cannot be replicated in the game due to everything being attached to the kit itself. I was the victim of several teamkills over the last 2-3 hours or so myself, so I have to disagree on that one.

X-Alt · Post by **X-Alt** » 2014-03-23 20:03

Frontliner wrote:You misunderstand me. As far as reality is concerned I agree they would pick up enemy rifles, equipment and body armour and they would most likely leave the camo uniform where it is. This cannot be replicated in the game due to everything being attached to the kit itself. I was the victim of several teamkills over the last 2-3 hours or so myself, so I have to disagree on that one.

Nope, only the armor and helmet.

Anderson29 · Post by **Anderson29** » 2014-04-07 17:40

riddle me this batman.
ur telling me in the heat of a firefight ur going to pick up body armor, helmet and weapon of a fallen enemy who most likely died from getting shot or blown the fuck up? you know what explosions and bullets do to body armor, helmets and weapons....yeah u guessed it...it gets ruined. can bf2 engine simulate this.....no. so devs try to remedy this as best they can. are there cases where body armor, helmets and weapons dont get destroyed but the person wearing them does....of course.

u want a whole bunch of brits running around with ak's setting grande traps and ieds?.?. and on AAS think of dorve winter....jesus...what a cluster fuck that would be if you could pick up and keep enemy kits.

Raklodder · Post by **Raklodder** » 2014-04-07 19:04

Anderson29 wrote:riddle me this batman.
ur telling me in the heat of a firefight ur going to pick up body armor, helmet and weapon of a fallen enemy who most likely died from getting shot or blown the fuck up? you know what explosions and bullets do to body armor, helmets and weapons....yeah u guessed it...it gets ruined. can bf2 engine simulate this.....no. so devs try to remedy this as best they can. are there cases where body armor, helmets and weapons dont get destroyed but the person wearing them does....of course.

u want a whole bunch of brits running around with ak's setting grande traps and ieds?.?. and on AAS think of dorve winter....jesus...what a cluster fuck that would be if you could pick up and keep enemy kits.

I like the feature, but it sounds kind of logical, looting in the middle of a firefight seems unrealistic.

Brooklyn-Tech · Post by **Brooklyn-Tech** » 2014-04-07 19:18

it is unrealistic and you could argue that it is bad for the gameplay.

...but i must admit it is fun and i sincerely miss the 0.97 times when this was possible. good times were had.

Brooklyn-Tech · Post by **Brooklyn-Tech** » 2014-04-07 19:22

Frontliner wrote: Not being able to pick up even riflemen and specialists was introduced because dressing up as the enemy is forbidden by war law.

makes you wonder if it should be legal to use modern rifles which allow you to change the caliber of the bullets you shoot to that of the enemy to make it look like your forces werent there...

Spook · Post by **Spook** » 2014-04-07 20:29

Without name tags this would end up in countless teamkills. Even now you are forced to cry out "ENEMY KIT ON MEEEE" when you pick one up to use ammo or patches and dont want to get killed, and in 30% of all cases teammates will still shoot you in the face...

In the past there were nametags and you could easily spot enemies by not having tags. Now imagine on Xiangshan, were French and Chinese already look exactly the same, take enemy kits. I am 100% sure you could run along a whole army of chinese as french with a china kit for 1 hour and they would not notice it.

Its unrealistic and would cause too much confusion. Even though me personally love the idea of taking enemy kits and sneaking behind enemy lines pretending to be one of theirs and sabotage their base

...I always did that back then and was rather succesfull sometimes but I always thought that without nametags it would be just perfect. Then they actually got removed but enemy kits got blocked aswell ... oh well. But as said gameplay-wise its a good thing.

Portable.Cougar · Post by **Portable.Cougar** » 2014-04-07 20:30

I see it as one of those game play over realism issues that PR deals with.

Would you be able to pick up a rifle pull the trigger and make it go bang? Sure

On the gameplay side, the weapon sounds in PR are very distinct. An AK sounds like an INS player and an M4 sounds like an American player.

Before it was difficult to know, while moving towards a firefight, who was who.

Now when I hear M4 fire as the blufor side I know it's my team firing. Same goes for Russians VS British or any other combination.

curahee150 · Post by **curahee150** » 2014-04-07 20:41

Anderson29 wrote:riddle me this batman.
ur telling me in the heat of a firefight ur going to pick up body armor, helmet and weapon of a fallen enemy who most likely died from getting shot or blown the fuck up? you know what explosions and bullets do to body armor, helmets and weapons....yeah u guessed it...it gets ruined. can bf2 engine simulate this.....no. so devs try to remedy this as best they can. are there cases where body armor, helmets and weapons dont get destroyed but the person wearing them does....of course.

u want a whole bunch of brits running around with ak's setting grande traps and ieds?.?. and on AAS think of dorve winter....jesus...what a cluster fuck that would be if you could pick up and keep enemy kits.

Anderson what makes you think every time, the person that picks up an enemy kit is going to be in a firefight?

jax · Post by **jax** » 2014-04-07 21:00

I was always happy to see it in insurgency maps, I mean why wouldn't a severely lowly funded unconventional force pick up something thats got some optics strapped to it... Anywhere else I didn't see the point.

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