Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

EDIT: Apology to the person in question. Please view this thread as an overall rant about situations like this, not an attack. It was not meant to be.

So I come back to PR after quite some time and join a server, which I will not name.
Full server, 9 squads, can't make my own so I decide to join a clan squad with 2 clannies in it which I won't name.
I ask them what's up and what kit they want, they say we're just defending and whatever kit is fine. Very bad sign there already but okay.

Then they decide to attack and I give them some pointers on what to do.
I get replied with "You wanna go to Hotel 7 and look at some trees?" etc.

Okay so they insist to run head on into the capzone and get murdered due to the enemies having their shit together and our team all being in one spot, fine.
We get to a treeline near the cap station and me and the SL get killed.
SL blames the enemy and our team, "I can't play the game right now" etc. and I give some pointers where the fire came from.
Probably bad luck, I was messing with my controls not paying attention so it happens.

Medic comes in, tries to revive us with low hopes, get's shot. SL blames our APC for not doing anything useful.

After we spawn in I suggest them that either they start actually moving in a smart way, flanking etc. or they let me lead.
The SL tells me "Do you even know how good I am at this game?" and I ask him if he's kidding, he says no.

The switch in my head goes off.
I've run into the *********.

I try to explain to them that yes, my squad leading could probably win us the game because we would get FOB's up to good positions, other squads would follow suit etc. and I get kicked from the squad.

I come back and ask if they're kidding, they tell me to make my own squad etc.
I just say fine and leave, I'm not dealing with this.

I got confident in my squadleading by listening to better players giving me advice when I was squadleading, if they can't do the same then they're not up to be a squadleader.
They just want to stick with their little 2 man clan and bash on the team, apparently.

For reference, last game I played yesterday, I suggested the SL lets me go out into the city we were defending and do my thing, which is aggressive foot recon ie: killing whole squads before they get to my squad.

He says no, but the squad was so composed and all had mics etc. so I said fine, you call the shots.

I follow with them and spot an opportunity to go out of the mosque we were in and prove my worth, so to say.

I'll check out outside and be back in a minute I said.

Full enemy squad dead later, SL said "You're doing a good job, keep doing whatever you're doing." and through me covering their East flank completely from any enemy even getting in, they could do what they want at the mosque, which was armor hunting and directing out IFV's fire. We also did a hit and run on an enemy FOB with a Humvee and they destroyed it with their own artillery, hah. GG's were had and so on.

That is when an SL recognizes that his original plan does not work as well as a squadmate's, and that the squad is competent enough to adapt. The squad I was in right now was not led by that kind of SL.

So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player :-x !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?
Last edited by Archosaurus on 2014-05-02 11:17, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Language, not sure if allowed here
Prevtzer
Posts: 648
Joined: 2012-06-13 12:19

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Prevtzer »

Archosaurus wrote:So, what do you do when the whole team is seemingly full of "Noooo, I'm the best player :-x !" SL's?
Just leave like I did?
Make smart-*** remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.
Spook
Posts: 2458
Joined: 2011-07-12 14:08

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Spook »

So is this whole post based on one single bad experience you had?

Not much to say about it, there can be ******** everywhere. Best thing to do was leaving the squad as you did. And keep in mind that constantly telling a SL what he is doing wrong can really fuck up his mood even if he is generally a nice and good player. Advices are good, but if you can't live with the SL's decisions at all you better just join another one instead of making him mad through-out the round. And if the rest of the squads suck just as bad, you might want to consider to find another server.
Image
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

Spook wrote:So is this whole post based on one single bad experience you had?

Not much to say about it, there can be ******** everywhere. Best thing to do was leaving the squad as you did. And keep in mind that constantly telling a SL what he is doing wrong can really fuck up his mood even if he is generally a nice and good player. Advices are good, but if you can't live with the SL's decisions at all you better just join another one instead of making him mad through-out the round. And if the rest of the squads suck just as bad, you might want to consider to find another server.
So pretty much do what I did.

And it's not like I told him "You're bad, let me lead pls" I was mostly addressing everyone. What our team was doing was not working. I never said "Dude you suck" or anything, because in the end, it IS his squad. He's the one who brought up his own personal skill into the discussion of what we should do, and I don't think "I'm on the top" is a good enough reason to listen to someone who isn't acting like he's on the top. If he stopped blaming the team for his mistakes and did his best, I wouldn't have felt the need to say anything, you get me?

Oh and not just one, I've had many, many of these in my years of PR. This is just recent.
Prevtzer wrote:Make smart-*** remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.
Please don't turn this thread into a bash thread. Even if you know who I'm talking about, there's no reason to go and defend them by being aggressive. I'm trying to lessen the problem via my own action, not beat bad SL's into submission.
MADsqirrel
Posts: 410
Joined: 2011-08-15 13:00

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by MADsqirrel »

Saying "I am the better player here so do what I say!" will never do any good (I know it's exaggerated) and may lead to a pointless argument between you and him with a lot butthurt (him) and you beeing annoyed.
If you do not like the squadleading style of someone, just leave the squad (thats what I do) or try to subtle manipulate him (lot of fun when it works) OR just deal with it and say "You're the boss. I will do what you want me to do." because thats what YOU expect people in your squad to do.
What do you do if someone grouches all the time about your squadleading saying he knows better what do to?
I will advise them to join another squad if they don't like what I am doing.
[img]http://www.realitymod.com/forum/uploads/signatures/sigpic56970_7.gif[/img]
HunterMed
Posts: 2080
Joined: 2007-04-08 17:28

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by HunterMed »

Make smart-*** remarks about being the better SL and post a subtle brag thread on the forums.
:D


OT: What Spook said...
You can only try to point out IDEAS. But too often players generally think their idea is the only solution to a problem. Everybody has ideas and when the SL's idea fails it is easy to say "my" idea would have worked...
But yeah as Spook said, if it doesnt work just leave the squad. That is the democracy right there and it works pretty good mostly.

"open rebellion" in a squad is never a good way, especially saying: "let me lead" or anything of the likes.
It's pretty rude imo. You can only point out ideas and hope for the best or leave the squad.

Adressing everyone on teamchat rarely works in my experience. You are just a blue guy talking and nobody gives a **** most of the time :D
Sometimes you can do that with the fancy yellow chat (as CO) but best is always via Mumble on SL channel or as CO via mumble.
Last edited by HunterMed on 2014-05-01 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

HunterMed wrote: :D


OT: What Spook said...
You can only try to point out IDEAS. But too often players generally think their idea is the only solution to a problem. Everybody has ideas and when the SL's idea fails it is easy to say "my" idea would have worked...
But yeah as Spook said, if it doesnt work just leave the squad. That is the democracy right there and it works pretty good mostly.

"open rebellion" in a squad is never a good way, especially saying: "let me lead" or anything of the likes.
It's pretty rude imo. You can only point out ideas and hope for the best or leave the squad.

Adressing everyone on teamchat rarely works in my experience. You are just a blue guy talking and nobody gives a **** most of the time :D
Sometimes you can do that with the fancy yellow chat (as CO) but best is always via Mumble on SL channel or as CO via mumble.
No, I didn't actually tell my team anything, I was just ADDRESSING them all, talking about them.

But yeah, I suppose that me leaving was the best I could do. I know how annoying it is to have "that guy" in your squad and I didn't want to be a bother so I just left the server entirely as it was not suiting me.
I've found that giving ideas only works if the SL is any good. But if the SL is any good, we don't have this problem. :-x
MADsqirrel wrote:Saying "I am the better player here so do what I say!" will never do any good (I know it's exaggerated) and may lead to a pointless argument between you and him with a lot butthurt (him) and you beeing annoyed.
If you do not like the squadleading style of someone, just leave the squad (thats what I do) or try to subtle manipulate him (lot of fun when it works) OR just deal with it and say "You're the boss. I will do what you want me to do." because thats what YOU expect people in your squad to do.
What do you do if someone grouches all the time about your squadleading saying he knows better what do to?
I will advise them to join another squad if they don't like what I am doing.
I suppose.
But is there any way to make a player who is not open to even small ideas like "Let's flank them", who replies with "Your idea is stupid" or something along the lines, actually listen to you?
Psyrus
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 3841
Joined: 2006-06-19 17:10

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Psyrus »

Archosaurus wrote:Then they decide to attack and I give them some pointers

I suggest them that either they start actually moving in a smart way, flanking etc. or they let me lead.

my squad leading could probably win us the game

if they can't do the same then they're not up to be a squadleader.

I follow with them and spot an opportunity to go out of the mosque we were in and prove my worth, so to say.

Full enemy squad dead later
Just a quick side point with regard to using the word egotistical... There's something said about rocks being thrown around glass :)

I agree with a lot of your points, though.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

[R-CON]Psyrus wrote:Just a quick side point with regard to using the word egotistical... There's something said about rocks being thrown around glass :)

I agree with a lot of your points, though.
I don't think it's egotistical.

Saying "Because I killed the enemy squad, we won!" or "if they wouldn't have let me separate, then we would have lost outright!" probably is. You never know what'd happen, and even if I'm pretty sure that out of the times when squaddies have a say in things and things go well, it's thanks to the squaddies and when they don't and things don't go well, it's probably because they don't. Just an observation, because PR squads are not as organized as in real life, and commanders don't have as much experience and training as real ones generally.

Besides that, is leaving the squad really the only way? Is there no way to persuade even the most stubborn squad leader to adapt a little? I know there's the whole "Don't like it, make your own" thing but aren't squads there so everyone has a good time, not for the SL to have a power trip?
Heavy Death
Posts: 1303
Joined: 2012-10-21 10:51

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Heavy Death »

What I did? Havent come back to PR in ages. Because of all this. Not just what happened to you ingame but also this thread and everything else.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

Heavy Death wrote:What I did? Havent come back to PR in ages. Because of all this. Not just what happened to you ingame but also this thread and everything else.
Sorry, what?
I don't quite understand, I don't even know who you are so I'm not blaming you for anything if that's what you mean.
Pronck
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Joined: 2009-09-30 17:07

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Pronck »

Was it my LAAF?
We are staying up!
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

B.Pronk(NL) wrote:Was it my LAAF?
LAAF?

Anyway, no, your clan was not the clan I'm talking about. I won't be naming any people.
Death!
Posts: 318
Joined: 2013-04-03 00:21

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Death! »

You are criticizing your SL but you are indeed a bad lone wolf player, even if you get your frags.

If my SL sucks, I will suck with him, IRL that is what happens. I try to make my best even if he is dragging me to a death trap, that is what soldiers do.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

Death! wrote:You are criticizing your SL but you are indeed a bad lone wolf player, even if you get your frags.

If my SL sucks, I will suck with him, IRL that is what happens. I try to make my best even if he is dragging me to a death trap, that is what soldiers do.
Repeatedly coming back into the mosque to provide GL support, cover the entrance, dig the FOB etc. while always moving with the squad when they moved and manning the MG on the IFV makes me a lonewolfer? Hell, he even asked me to recon the area for him a few times. I was there with the whole squad when we done the hit and run and also when we were holding a line after it.

I know my description was limited, but don't assume anything.

In real life, in actual combat, the squad isn't bunched up and always on the SL's tail like you see in PR, they can split up into teams like we did, teams of 2.

SL and IFV gunner, NCO and HAT, GL and MG.

And no, that is not what soldiers do.
Maybe in incompetent armies, but not in anything worth mentioning, unless the command is abysmal or they're conscripts.
SIDEKILL3R
Posts: 394
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Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by SIDEKILL3R »

I don't wanna have people piss off like this at my squad leading. Then again we are living in the age where "2000" babies are now gaming..... EGO means everything to them lol even my little cousins are like that "who is best of all n have to be number one" and not about teamwork what so ever in most cases i mean nothing wrong with it at times but now it seem like now in PR """CERTAIN""" people who squad lead only care about is "BEST SQUAD" i admit i had my moments when it comes to bragging or making it seem like I'm PR best squad leader with "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY" at times but to me best squad means nothing because one squad can't win a round a team does and if you have a good and mature team (depending on who is on at the time) it's very fun and enjoyable i mean hey crack a few jokes here and there but stay focus on the obj at hand and it will be enjoyable. I been laying off PR for a min now due to NON-teamwork teams i been on lately ticks me off even when commanding and i decide to take a little break but PR is so dang on addicting i keep coming back. My advise to you sir is if you can't make your own squad join a squad that seems like they are playing the OBJ or having some form of teamwork if not leave join another if you still fail to find a squad that you enjoy being with switch teams if you still fail at finding a squad on the other team leave and come back at a different time of the day its what i do.
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

SIDEKILL3R wrote:I don't wanna have people piss off like this at my squad leading. Then again we are living in the age where "2000" babies are now gaming..... EGO means everything to them lol even my little cousins are like that "who is best of all n have to be number one" and not about teamwork what so ever in most cases i mean nothing wrong with it at times but now it seem like now in PR """CERTAIN""" people who squad lead only care about is "BEST SQUAD" i admit i had my moments when it comes to bragging or making it seem like I'm PR best squad leader with "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY" at times but to me best squad means nothing because one squad can't win a round a team does and if you have a good and mature team (depending on who is on at the time) it's very fun and enjoyable i mean hey crack a few jokes here and there but stay focus on the obj at hand and it will be enjoyable. I been laying off PR for a min now due to NON-teamwork teams i been on lately ticks me off even when commanding and i decide to take a little break but PR is so dang on addicting i keep coming back. My advise to you sir is if you can't make your own squad join a squad that seems like they are playing the OBJ or having some form of teamwork if not leave join another if you still fail to find a squad that you enjoy being with switch teams if you still fail at finding a squad on the other team leave and come back at a different time of the day its what i do.
So I guess the only solution is to let the clannies have their way and go form your own little A-team or keep searching.

And believe me, one squad can't win the match but it sure can do 95% of the effort.
That one match I had yesterday was amazing, our squad was like they'd taken 6 terminators and bundled them all up into one group.

Also, I have no problem when SL's lead in a way which I don't like, as long as they do something worthwhile ingame.
Those guys were not, they were running into fire and not accepting any other way. Otherwise I don't have a problem really.
Last edited by Archosaurus on 2014-05-01 18:12, edited 1 time in total.
StevePl4y5
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Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by StevePl4y5 »

Archosaurus, I'm gonna give you a good SL reference, if you ever see him, join his squad.
Dr. Hax, great squad leader, have been playing with him for a while, he usually divides the squad in 2 fireteams and when we have good squad members, it usually goes well, cuz he knows what he's doing.

He usually plays on MeRK and NEW Joint Forces Teamwork Night. You can go there to take a look at when we're playing: Team One Tactical ? View topic - [SIGNUPS] PR NIGHT 27.04.14 20:00 GMT+1, also you can find us in TS: 1tac.tk
Archosaurus
Posts: 258
Joined: 2011-10-09 11:32

Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Archosaurus »

StevePl4y5 wrote:Archosaurus, I'm gonna give you a good SL reference, if you ever see him, join his squad.
Dr. Hax, great squad leader, have been playing with him for a while, he usually divides the squad in 2 fireteams and when we have good squad members, it usually goes well, cuz he knows what he's doing.

He usually plays on MeRK and NEW Joint Forces Teamwork Night. You can go there to take a look at when we're playing: Team One Tactical ? View topic - [SIGNUPS] PR NIGHT 27.04.14 20:00 GMT+1, also you can find us in TS: 1tac.tk
Dr.Hax, Team One Tactical, noted.

Sadly I don't remember the name of the SL in the match I had yesterday, but I know it was on HOG mixed maps.
Bringerof_D
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Re: Egotistical clans, bad SL's and dealing with them

Post by Bringerof_D »

when you give a suggestion to your SLs also provide an analysis on why. works for me, event he most zealous of leaders i've worked with have responded well with that approach. if you give them a good reason to take your suggestion more often than not they will.
Information in the hands of a critical thinker is invaluable, information alone is simply dangerous.
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