The issue with immediate assets on maps

[Beee8190]

As far as I remember the gameplay in pre 1.0 release, used to be far more tactical and slower that not only made the gameplay much more interesting even on vehicle dominant maps like kashan but the infantry was essential part of those environments.


There even used to be logistics squads being responsible for transport and delivery of supplies and the infantry set fobs up, stationary anti-tank launchers and AA placements or mortars if necessary and another game of flanking fobs gave the infantry squads something to hunt and proved rather important in guiding Armor, CAS and even snipers.


So what changed, why can't anyone be bothered with fobs, let alone defences anymore? IMO its the immediate access to map dominant assets as there's no time and the time spent building fobs is better used to rush towards yet to be captured points and simply hide in there. The current scenario is to take all tanks, get as close to yet to be captured enemy flag and sit there until something shows up...


I think introducing delay in heavy armor assets ( spawns along with CAS ) would at least partially fix this and I think that APC's ( mostly Stryker type of ) should be perfectly fine to start with


I definitely like the idea of those half sized crates in choppers ( could take even little longer to resupply / rearm these ) and I would go as far as suggesting that the heavy single box supplies should only be accessible by logistic trucks.

[Brainlaag]

So what changed, why can't anyone be bothered with fobs, let alone defences anymore?

Thank the Rally Points (among community issues that our outside the DEVs area of influence). Assets on map start have been available, well, since assets have been there (there are exceptions).

[chrisweb89]

How is it the rallies? You can't drive up in a 2 man logi anymore and set a rally, so that rush is gone, and unless there is a nearby FOB or friendly flag, rallies act the same as before.

What we didn't have before was beirut with an apache and havok to start with.

[Brainlaag]

and unless there is a nearby FOB or friendly flag, rallies act the same as before.

You said it yourself. People are much less likely to keep logistics going while on the defensive (usually the weaker team) and thus rely heavily on RPs.

[Truism]

Quality of the playerbase and play has diminished. For example very few people know or care that building a fob reduces your squad's respawn timer.

[Beee8190]

I agree with the rally points being an issue. Every squad uses it and as such there's no need for fobs but another issue with immediate access is that on maps like kamishiah, as witnessed last night playing.

The bluefor had their abrams ( along with number of AA humvees ) spawn immediately and made their way very, very close to the MEC main base, while we were still waiting on our tanks to spawn yet. The same for CAS, we had blufor jets flying over our main base while we didn't even have any CAS yet.

That round ended up with 600-0 for blufor and there was nothing what we could have done whatsoever.

This - rushing to enemy flags and let somebody else to cap ours is seriously damaging to the gameplay

[Brainlaag]

This - rushing to enemy flags and let somebody else to cap ours is seriously damaging to the gameplay

It has always been, especially with stacked teams. That's the reason servers like PRTA started introducing a rule against rushing uncapable flags/mains before 20min into the game. IMO that is a step in the right direction.

[Cavazos]

Delayed heavy assets sounds like a great idea. Just have infantry forces, utility vehicles, and transport helicopters ready at the start. At least for some maps to test it out.

Sounds like fun.

Thank the Rally Points (among community issues that our outside the DEVs area of influence). Assets on map start have been available, well, since assets have been there (there are exceptions).

Rally points or not, a logistics squad is always useful. I sometimes make a two man squad and end up making all the bases.

Infantry squads need to focus on fighting.

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[matty1053]

IMO, Rally points are a issue on maps.

4km maps need to have sq leaders only able to place 2 rallys a game. It's so depressing when you see a squad in Kokan only using a rally point.

I tend to set fobs up when I am INF squad. Honestly, I have been told my sq mates: "Why you making a fob? We have rallies".
then I usually rant to them for 4 minutes explaining why they are important.

It's funny cause on average... I have 2 squad members building. While I only have 2 Medics... which are on lookout, as well as AR.

Plus, it sucks. It's almost like "why not just add the spawns at flags again..."

[Brainlaag]

Cavazos;2015229']Rally points or not, a logistics squad is always useful. I sometimes make a two man squad and end up making all the bases.

Infantry squads need to focus on fighting.

I'm not contesting that, merely pointing out what the average player thinks and does.

[Rudd]

Some good points here

if you could discuss some specifics, particular maps where this is an issue etc that would be helpful.

[Pronck]

Beirut Large, CAS could use a delay. It often ends up in a chopper dogfight @ 5 minutes in and the team that loses the CAS chopper will almost definitely lose the game.

Would be great to see for example no tanks from the beginning on Kashan for example on a certain layer. To prevent rushing and allowing both teams to dig in better.

[Death!]

Beirut Large, CAS could use a delay. It often ends up in a chopper dogfight @ 5 minutes in and the team that loses the CAS chopper will almost definitely lose the game.

Would be great to see for example no tanks from the beginning on Kashan for example on a certain layer. To prevent rushing and allowing both teams to dig in better.

That is not really necessary. Servers just need to implement the no rushing rule as Merk and PRTA do.

TBH, I don't really understand rushing: AAS is like a push and that is why we got a capping order. I won't say I've never done a rush before, but I never felt it was really "right". Players should respect the capping order all the time, not really at the beginning only.

[Pronck]

Well planned rushing can be compared to Operation Market Garden. The rushers are the airbornes, the rest are the armored units and infantry trying to get to the rushers in time. When planned and executed well you cannot only prevent the enemies from capping you can also hurt the enemy a lot.

[PatrickLA_CA]

IMO in the latest couple of releases PR has been made way too easy to play.

[UTurista]

Some good points here

if you could discuss some specifics, particular maps where this is an issue etc that would be helpful.

Beirut seems the only map were this is a big issue, big enough to prevent admins to play the Standard layout, and I'm assuming its the havoc spawning right in the beginning creating a rape fest.

4k maps like (Kashan, Khamisiyah,Bijar Canyons) are spoiled by assets, many times these maps tanks are able to kill the choppers that are still carrying troops, small logistic delays means that the tow will not be ready on time.

Fallujah West, is an example of a small map were the armor spawning right in the beginning is a BIG problem, mines and IEDs are still being placed and the armor is already in their top spots; Fobs are yet to be made and Bradleys, LAVs, AAVs are already raping the team... Although its insurgency and the all game is being ruined after each patch

[Psyrus]

You'll always have the asshat sitting at the main waiting, but I think more players would rather get into the fight and have fun, and then worry about getting their preferred asset later.

Make it so you can't enter vehicles worth more than 5 tickets if you have <1 teamwork point (so people who sat at main for 20 mins), or those who die in a heavy asset (generally about -20) without doing anything particularly useful before dying.

Just kidding of course, but something that wouldn't be that hard to implement