Civi rule change in 1.2

[ComradeHX]

Could you guys get back on-topic please, or take it to PMs?

On topic:

Insurgency remained unpopular after v1.2 release.

Time to roll back the changes or at least deal with compromise.

All people supporting the anti dropkit-bleedout-martyr rule have never even attempted it; it's not reliable/easy at all.
It wasn't a problem at all.

[Psyrus]

On topic:

Insurgency remained unpopular after v1.2 release.

Time to roll back the changes or at least deal with compromise.

I played three rounds of insurgency just today, and insurgents won 2 of three (albasrah on two servers, fallujah was the one that USMC won... naturally). I played ARF insurgency the other day too, it was voted in by the server population. I ragequit the ramiel round though because I find the ARF ridiculously underpowered with no mortar support and no collaborators to stem the intel flow.

If you're gonna spout utter ****, at least throw in some humor to soften it upon the eyes

Edit: Oops, I forgot my promise to myself earlier in this thread not be sucked in by you, my apologies, I won't make the mistake of replying again.

[ComradeHX]

I played three rounds of insurgency just today, and insurgents won 2 of three (albasrah on two servers, fallujah was the one that USMC won... naturally). I played ARF insurgency the other day too, it was voted in by the server population. I ragequit the ramiel round though because I find the ARF ridiculously underpowered with no mortar support and no collaborators to stem the intel flow.

If you're gonna spout utter ****, at least throw in some humor to soften it upon the eyes

Edit: Oops, I forgot my promise to myself earlier in this thread not be sucked in by you, my apologies, I won't make the mistake of replying again.

You played 3 rounds of INS today and suddenly you can say it's popular?
I played PR for a week at prime time in U.S. and can count the number of INS(ones with civi) in one hand.
I don't recall the last time INS(with civi) map got voted in; it only goes on if it's in a maplist.

If I threw ****; it would have caught your eyes, in which case softness isn't a requirement.

Yeah, you do need to try harder to not get into a losing argument.
Remember that post where you say stats being tracked will show if balance is upset? Where are the stats?

ARF is actually fine; spawnable LAT kit with 2 RPG, AK, and 2 RKG is a lot of win.
And MACHETE KILLS.

[UTurista]

Insurgency is broken its a fact but the potential of it is greater then any other gamemode and that's why I keep returning to this game mode.

The current changes of civis is one step closer to the PR myth "Devs are trying to remove INS from PR".

Its is to my understatement that IRL the army struggles to fight against the insurgents because of their shoot and hide tactic.

In PR the only way to simulate this was with civilians, yet the current changes remove this "simulation" and add a linear "you kill him and he doesn't have a chance" gameplay.

Yes the "Being shot at and drop the weapon" was a terrible exploit, but the wall of civilians was not, this TACTIC was the only way of insurgents fight:

• Optics
• Better Weapons
• Kevlar
• Thermals
• Armor
• UAVs
• Tows
• .50 Caliber placements
• and much more

Not only this change is wrong the fact its a magic circle that we have no idea if we're inside or no, makes this even WORSE.

The timer, 2 minutes, is also bad, yes this is not a change but the fact is IRL an insurgent can shoot drop/hide the weapon and the army can't fire (assuming its a city with civilians), in PR 2 minutes is to much for that. Insurgents should be able to hide/drop their weapon and be considered general population, 20 seconds would allow this.

Armed medics is also a wrong move, if anything an alt/std kit should be available, one with weapons the other without.

When the general K/D is around 200-50, in a good day, something is wrong, PR is gameplay > realism, so please stop destroying insurgency.

Insurgents don't need stronger weapons, they just need they biggest weapon... CIVILIANS.

PS: not being able to request rifleman from the cache is, in lack of better word, stupid.

[Psyrus]

Not only this change is wrong the fact its a magic circle that we have no idea if we're inside or no, makes this even WORSE.

The timer, 2 minutes, is also bad, yes this is not a change but the fact is IRL an insurgent can shoot drop/hide the weapon and the army can't fire (assuming its a city with civilians), in PR 2 minutes is to much for that. Insurgents should be able to hide/drop their weapon and be considered general population, 20 seconds would allow this.

Armed medics is also a wrong move, if anything an alt/std kit should be available, one with weapons the other without.

PS: not being able to request rifleman from the cache is, in lack of better word, stupid.

As a player I agree with the above points, the 10m initial trial was too big and will undoubtedly be revised in a patch, I don't think anyone contends that. The two minute timer was actually introduced *just* before I introduced the exploit code suggestions, so it's a remnant of trying to find an 'easy' fix for the drop-kit exploit. I hope for at the very least 60 seconds to be returned, if not less, since the collaborator now literally can do nothing but spot and martyr. Previously he could at least heal and grapple people to decent places.

I agree that the rifleman should be requestable at the cache, preferably the ammo-bearing type so that you don't have to suicide just to rearm the mortars. It's an *AMMO* cache, it should allow you to disperse ammo easily

[ComradeHX]

Psyrus;2016016']As a player I agree with the above points, the 10m initial trial was too big and will undoubtedly be revised in a patch, I don't think anyone contends that. The two minute timer was actually introduced *just* before I introduced the exploit code suggestions, so it's a remnant of trying to find an 'easy' fix for the drop-kit exploit. I hope for at the very least 60 seconds to be returned, if not less, since the collaborator now literally can do nothing but spot and martyr. Previously he could at least heal and grapple people to decent places.

I agree that the rifleman should be requestable at the cache, preferably the ammo-bearing type so that you don't have to suicide just to rearm the mortars. It's an *AMMO* cache, it should allow you to disperse ammo easily

Then the changes should be made to fit with other aspect of civi kit before being put into the patch...

Especially when you know patch was going to be rushed because of Gamespy shutdown; as obvious as it sounds, it's not a good idea to put such a significant change to INS mechanics BEFORE enough playtesting.

So why did these changes make it into the patch?

[Mikemonster]

Seeing as this is a bit of a Q&A thread (which is nice to be honest), why did the squad leader lose the ability to chose the Collaborator kit? It was one of the most teamwork/squadwork enhancing parts of pre 1.0 insurgency. And usually it wasn't in his interests to derp around.

[Beee8190]

Those stats might be handy to you guys but it would be interesting to see what it'd show at weekends only.

In my own experience most rounds are simply delaying blufor long enough till they run out of tickets and that's all good but again, if the blu team is rather competent, Insurgents have no chance whatsoever.

If I reverse that situation now and say that blufor are just bunch of noobish lunetics INS have decent chances to win but it is is always close enough call and the casualties still very high, at least in my experience

Agree the suggestions here on how to make it more fun seem to stalled a bit but the suggestion thread is the place to look in