[Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

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MADsqirrel
Posts: 410
Joined: 2011-08-15 13:00

[Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by MADsqirrel »

Introduction:

I few months ago I started think about the problems INS has and what could be done to solve them, making INS more fun. I came to the conclusion that the main problem is that INS has to defend, but with only a few real VPs per map, IEDs and Mines or close combat ambushes aren't a big threat to Blufor. Defending weapon cashes with inferior weapons (no scope) against a enemys with high long range fire capabilitys often turns out extremly frustrating.
IMO a gamemode where Blufor has to defend and INS attacks seemed to me more fun.
At first I thought about a convoy like mode, but that would need new maps specifically made for such a gamemode.
In the end I came up with a mix between CnC and INS.

Description:

Blufor has to build FOBs to make the INS bleed, while INS has to destroy FOBs and bleed out the Blufor team.
A max of 3 FOBs can be build by Blufor and only on certain places, randomly assigned like weapon cashes.

Example Karabala:

Image
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Dependend on how many FOBs are active there will be a different ticket bleed.

Example: Blufor tickets 600 / INS tickets 150
0 FOB= 1 Blufor ticket loss every 5 seconds (game would end after 50 min)
1 FOB= 1 Blufor ticket loss every 15 seconds (game would end after 150 min)
2 FOB= 1 INS ticket loss every 40 seconds (game would end after 90 min)
3 FOB= 1 INS ticket loss every 20 seconds (game would end after 50 min)

Blufor would lose tickets like normal for deaths and assets, while the only way too bring down INS tickets is to at least control 2 FOBs.
To counter a starting bleed for Blufor, a FOB foundation with a 60s rally next to it would be placed on one of the possible FOB locations.
The max. round time would be roughly 2 hours max.

Assets:
Because of the switched roles there is a unique situation for asset possibilitys.
Example for Karabala:

US:
2 tanks
2 Kiowas
4 Stryker
6 Humvees
6 supply trucks

INS:
4 Bomb cars 1 Gary
2 AA trucks
4 SPG technicals
10 technicals (rocket,ammo,standard)
20 civilian cars and bikes (in main and city)
or as alternative:

US:
2 Apaches
2 Stryker
14 Humvees
6 supply trucks

INS:
3 AA trucks
2 SPG technicals
1 Bomb car 2 Garys
16 technicals of all kind
20 civilian cars and bikes (in main and city)

Tanks or even Apaches are a lot harder to use in a effective defensive role then at attacking, so it should be balanced.
INS would also have access to many pickup kits, especially RPGs, PKMs, IED kits and SVDs and also dependend on the layout 2 Tandem RPGs or 2 AA launcher.

Gameplay:
It is hard to say what the actual gameplay will be like but I hope it will work out like this:
Blufor sets up defenses and at least 1 squad defends a FOB at all time.
Small convoys move to possible FOB locations, giving some "convoy feel"
Heavy assets support when a FOB is under attack or try to destroy enemy hideouts/mortars to relief FOB defenders.

And on the Opfor side:
INS mortars harass enemy FOBs.
Highly mobile Technical forces move around harassing FOBs and targets of opportunity with numbers.
Ambushing convoys.
Harassing FOBs with small groups and Full assaults with high numbers on a single FOB.


Conclusion:

This is my concept so far, all numbers are only rough guesses what could work.
If anything is unclear feel free to ask.

My main questions are:

Is this, after all, possible to make? Check.
If yes how can I modify this to get it working?
Do you see any fatal problems with the concept, gameplay wise?
What would be a fitting name for that gamemode? Potential names: Peacekeeper; Checkpoint

Edit:

Work plan (so far):
1. Learning coding (will study programming anyway): few months
2. Create a basic test version and get it playable: no ETA
3. Create a playable test version for public testing: no ETA
4. Balance and Bug fixes, so it is really playable: no ETA
5. Create layers for other maps: no ETA

I appreciate all suggestions and ideas, but until I am done with number 3 there is no real reason to change the initial gameplay idea, unless a fatal gameplay flaw is unveiled.

I would also be thankfull for any coding advise, to speed up part 1.
Last edited by MADsqirrel on 2014-09-04 18:46, edited 4 times in total.
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Ason
PR:BF2 Developer
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Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Ason »

I like this idea. However I would just switch the entire current INS gamemode, so FOB's will spawn around the map (like caches) instead of people having to build them.

And if possible, somehow link the FOBs to crates, so if you drop a crate at it it will regain some health. That would also create the "convoy-feeling".

Doesn't have to be FOBs. Could be anything really, if we want to keep the FOBs separate from gameplay objectives and functioning the way they do now.

I think this would decrease alot of work for devs and achieve pretty much the same as you say.
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Mats391
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Mats391 »

Are you planning on making this or is it a suggestion outside proper forum? ;)
MADsqirrel wrote: My main questions are:[/U]

Is this, after all, possible to make?
If yes how can I modify this to get it working?
Do you see any fatal problems with the concept, gameplay wise?
What would be a fitting name for that gamemode?
1. Yes it is possible, but i would rather base it on CnC code than insurgency.
2. Since python files are encrypted you would have to start off from scratch i fear :(
3. Only same problems normal insurgency has: random positions might give you an easy or an impossible round
4. Dunno
MADsqirrel
Posts: 410
Joined: 2011-08-15 13:00

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by MADsqirrel »

My first idea was to just make a suggestion, but then I felt that it should be doable, even for me.
So no it's not a suggestion I want to try to do that myself.

What do you mean with start from the scratch exactly?
I have very little coding experience atm but going to study at a EDV school in a few days, so I should be able to do it in the future.
3. Only same problems normal insurgency has: random positions might give you an easy or an impossible round
The main difference is that FOBs are a lot easier to destroy even from some distance and can't be hidden in a cave with only one ladder to the cache.
The only alternative I could think of would be basically like CnC FOB placing but with some restrictions on how far from main/map boarders and with a lot of minimum space between all FOBs but I fear this would lead only to FOBs in the middle of the desert, with no way for inf to get close.
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Microwaife
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Joined: 2011-03-17 11:46

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Microwaife »

Really nice concept!

A few things I would change:
1. Mortars and Bombcars not being able to destroy FOBs, would be way too easy.
2. Bluefor get 2 FOB locations on which they have to build a FOB at a time. INS has to destroy 3-4 FOBs to win game.
3. 5min Setup time for Bluefor to build FOBs at a marked location

Asset balance should be different on every map.
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Mats391
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Mats391 »

MADsqirrel wrote:My first idea was to just make a suggestion, but then I felt that it should be doable, even for me.
So no it's not a suggestion I want to try to do that myself.

What do you mean with start from the scratch exactly?
I meant that unless you get the source python files from a team member, you will have to write everything from scratch.
MADsqirrel wrote: The main difference is that FOBs are a lot easier to destroy even from some distance and can't be hidden in a cave with only one ladder to the cache.
The only alternative I could think of would be basically like CnC FOB placing but with some restrictions on how far from main/map boarders and with a lot of minimum space between all FOBs but I fear this would lead only to FOBs in the middle of the desert, with no way for inf to get close.

Yea it certainly will be less impactfull than in current INS, but can still be annoying if the mode forces you to get a FOB in the middle of Fallujah. I wouldnt worry to much about it now, that would be something to evaluate during testing.
KaB
Retired PR Developer
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Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by KaB »

Id recommand to disable the restriction that unallows SL to setup fobs when there are enemies too close, at least for Blufor.
Because in that case, Blufor might just want their fob to be done as quick as possible in order to avoid tickets bleeding.
gamma_gandalph
Posts: 86
Joined: 2013-02-20 00:04

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by gamma_gandalph »

I like the idea and we (FCV / =DRK=) do have some experience running something similar to this. Namely FOB defense as one of our regular scenarioes for Scenario Sundays. In that scenario the defending team gets 15 minutes to set up up to three FOBs around the map and the opposing team has to destroy them before the timer (usually 1 hour 30 minutes) runs out. It usually works pretty well.

You might want to think about setting it up similarly. Randomly spawn three FOBs around the map for the insurgents to destroy, both teams getting normal tickets with the defending team bleeding out quickly when there are no FOBs left.

As for the name, how does Checkpoint sound to you? Seems to me what this is simulating, Blufor holding their checkpoints against the insurgents.
Fir3w411
Posts: 341
Joined: 2014-03-01 17:56

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Fir3w411 »

This is what I think should and shouldn't be included :

Well Blufor shouldn't get area attack.
Blufor should need one or two more crates to get emplacements on the fob.
Bomb cars' ability to destroy it I don't know. Because a bomb car might be in the area, and as soon as the fob spawns it sees it and just blows it.
Insurgents definitely shouldn't be able to destroy fob with mortar.
Like said, ALOT more RPGs, SVDs.
Two SPG techys.
Idk about this one, but Blufor kits should get more nonscoped weapons I. E. Medic, AT.
Blufor should also get more combat engineers.
No HAT for Blufor (why do they even have that in INS to begin with)

That is what I think.
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SyriousT
Posts: 298
Joined: 2014-06-09 10:50

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by SyriousT »

looks good , blufor in an airport and ins are attacking (like Altabaqa airport in alraqqah -Syria) i've gone too far yeah
but really nice mode
Death!
Posts: 318
Joined: 2013-04-03 00:21

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Death! »

Ason wrote: Doesn't have to be FOBs. Could be anything really, if we want to keep the FOBs separate from gameplay objectives and functioning the way they do now.

I did a related post in the Muttrah Insurgency thread a while ago:
Insurgency does not really need to be... Insurgency. Any destructible objects can work as "caches" and work on the same intel point system as insurgency itself.

On Muttrah, I can imagine some reasonable "caches":

>AA batteries
>AT emplacements
>Logi trucks that can't move nor be manned, on the same way as the commander's APC (the logis could spawn randomly on "hidden" places, like caches)
>Caches/crates themselves (that can work as normal caches)
>FOBs

Backstory: It's a city, a heavily populated area, thus bluefor "can't" perform bombardments for this reason (high risk of ally civilian casualties). So they send infantry to find and take down key targets.

Putting two or three key flags on the mix like it's on Burning Sands could also turn things a bit more interesting (or not, who knows).



Muttrah INS could be nice like this.
Bluedrake42
Posts: 1933
Joined: 2009-07-23 17:52

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Bluedrake42 »

we actually made a similar gamemode suggestion before, long story short... I'm all for this
Wayet
Posts: 122
Joined: 2013-06-30 17:50

Re: [Gamemode concept] New INS gamemode

Post by Wayet »

looks great ! cant wait to try this out
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