Rushing (flags) seem vital nowadays

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Too often rushers are concerned about their K/D. I love to rush on Muttrah but it is extremely hard to get a squad focused together to do it. Everyone wants their damn special kits. Honestly, IMO, if you can't win without the special kits, you need help where a crutch won't.

I love to lay around in wheat fields that totally cover you up because think about it, who ever runs looking at the ground? When fields are available at the rush flag, that is like the best thing ever. Also, most SL's never set rally points making the "rush" pointless.

I may have griped about the rest of the team not doing their job from time to time but I generally keep quiet. I would go so far to say that the rest of the team also usually gripes about this far off ... off of objective squad causing the pot to get stirred.

It's a mixed bag however you look at it and rushing really only works if your focused and know what the hell your doing.

-SwampFox

[matty1053]

Good Evening,

Too often rushers are concerned about their K/D.

Agreed.

I still don't get why people are worried about their k/d...


There is nothing to be rewarded of if you have a great k/d


I would rather have each team have low k/d, and have a long tactical round. But that is nearly impossible now a days

[Danger_6]

Good KD is very important. It means you are most likely winning the game.

It shows that you are dominating your enemy and preventing their movements.

Don't underestimate the KD of your team.

[ElPube]

Nope. Sure it's better have a better k/d than the enemy but for the victory you have to think about the ticket loss with vehicles and flags, this ticket loss is independent from the k/d.

[Yrkidding]

Nope. Sure it's better have a better k/d than the enemy but for the victory you have to think about the ticket loss with vehicles and flags, this ticket loss is independent from the k/d.

K/D isn't really independent from ticket loss though, you cause the enemy to lose a ticket everytime they get wounded and another when they go dead dead. Everytime you successfully kill an infantryman that's 2 tickets gone from the enemy team, therefore having a better K/D generally means that you've taken more tickets from them than you have lost. Of course objectives and vehicle loss carries significantly more weight ticket-wise but k/d isn't really independent.

[fecht_niko]

There is no problem with rushing to key points of the map (could be 1. flag). The goal is to win the round and not to build fob castles like Bob the "tactical" builder or derp somewhere in main or far away of any flag...

Here one exemple for Gaza Beach AAS INF where rushing is the best tactic for Hamas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xs0c6Pt_qs

In my opinion all pubic rounds should be played like competetive rounds in order to teach all the new players (and old noobs) how to play this game with all possible tactics. And "forcing" other squads to defend flags is also ok because you teach them at least something.
It's always good to have an active squad that takes the initiative and leads the team.

And about K/D: There are 3 main ways to win the round: Give them ticketbleed, cap some flags back and have the better K/D. On most public rounds you won't see a team loosing more than 1-2 flags or having ticket bleed. Thats why the K/D will decide which team will win the round...

Cheers

Niko

[Souls Of Mischief]

It was a sad day when flag rushing was forbidden by virtually all servers. #FreedomToPR

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

I have found in recent gameplay that while rushing flags is fun, it is easier and less SL stressful to lead a squad who entrenches as they advance. I think that the "Secure" part of Advance/Assault & Secure is lost on many many many players.

-SwampFox

[40mmrain]

The only problem I have with rushing is that it woefully exposes team imbalances. If one team has a squad that's a step above the other team in skill, then that one squad can rush successfully and have a huge impact on the game. On the contrary, if rushing is impossible then that one squad is still very effective in the game, but isn't able to completely disrupt and almost end the game immediately.

Rushing when the two teams are even is good fun, and plenty of sufficient counterplay exists. But when this isnt the case it exposes team skill imbalance to a much greater degree than if it didn't exist. SO this goes against PR's collectivist style of development choices, where the game should be decided by the whole team, and not just one squad or single player. It can also make matches an exercise in total futility where an early rush seals the fate of the map, giving one side a gigantic space advantage, but still taking an hour for tickets to drain down to zero. This just makes the game boring, even for the winning side if they wanted to have some good armour duels or middle flag fighting.

I think rushing in public matches should be stifled a bit. A small delay on trans choppers and high speed rushing vehicles (jeeps and not trucks essentially) would starve the rushing squad's ability to get in perfect position before the enemy armour and such are able to get to unpredictable positions. A small delay on requesting a HAT kit would also fizzle out a rushing squad's ability to use jeeps to rush with it and shut down enemy early on.

Another way to inhibit rushing is to make maps with fewer flags. In general its impossible to rush the opponent's first flag as it is too far and no matter how incompetent the enemy is they will be there (if they arent then whether or not rushing is possible will not effect the outcome of the game anyways). If there are 3 flags, then rushing is basically not even possible as the first flag you can "rush to" is the second, which the enemy will be trying to do no matter what anyways. However if there is a flag layout of 7, then it possible to even rush the 6th or 5th flag. If successful you essentially secure that flag and all that are behind it. Blah blah blah, space advantage, closer to the enemy's last, etc and that's a won game.

Black Gold provides massive opportunity for this, and probably a lot of other maps do. 7+ flag layers can be fun, and I'd rather have lots of different flag numbers then every map having 3 flags. I think the delay on transport should be proportional to the number of flags that each side has. Black Gold could stand for a few minutes for armour and trans/logi trucks to get out into the field before choppers show up. Having each side start with 2 flags, and not 1 would also be inhibiting to rushing as less people would have to use time capping all the stuff in the back, meaning that rushers would ahve more on their hands.

I think it's also worth mentioning that even if a rush is not fully successful in holding the flag they have rushed for the duration of the match, if they are able to knock out important enemy assets, or even simply uphold the enemy for a long enough they have been successful. Only a full loss of the rushing squad without any time or material compensation is a failure. These are rare, because the rushing team's advantage in surprise and also in that they know inherently where the enemy can and cant be because the enemy simply has not had enough time to get far enough from base is very great. Rushing (without armour) is a very low risk very high reward tactic. Losing a forward squad at the beginning of the game will lose a handful of tickets and freeze the HAT kit for 10 minutes or so, but thats a small price to pay for what could be gained. Almost zero time is lost rushing, only tickets. The rushing squad must be killed for the enemy to cap the flag that they occupy. This means that if they die then the enemy has not even captured all of their initial flags and the rushing squad can easily respawn and get to the front lines before the game has even fully started.

tl;dr: Rushing makes imbalanced teams much more imbalanced. Rushing can make the outcome of a game apparent quickly, but still take an hour for tickets to drain making the game boring. Rushing can be done by a single squad to win the whole game taking away the collectivist ideals of PR. Rushing is a very low risk, very high reward tactic. Rushing abuses the fact that teams have to start from their bases, making a very "gamey" and imbalanced situation, taking away fog of war not by recon and experience but rather taking advantage of game mehcanics. For all these reasons maps where rushing is successful should have a small delay on choppers and fast transport, and on layers with many flags the first one or two should always start in the hands of the side closest.

[matty1053]

Another thing that I will add is....
People that rush end up getting crushed, if they don't know what their doing. Then they blame everyone else for not capping the flags in time.

In my true opinion, I think it's a childish tactic every once in a while. Also a boring tactic in my viewpoint. Yes, I have done rushing a few times on 4 km maps. I don't do it on Beruit, or Muttrah... since on Muttrah you will die getting near the docks by CAS huey.

But, the unfortunate thing about the rushing is.... you lose a vehicle or two. And some tickets.
Well, I just dislike the tactic personally a lot. I find a lot of times the round ends quicker then non-rushing rounds.

I can add that rushing is very useful on Jabal. Since the Dam is the 'key point' in the map.

[Cassius]

If the enemy rushes flags it should work against them. If they hold 4 flags and you 2 you are more at risk for ticket bleed, but the enemy set himself up for a 120 ticket loss. If the other faction keeps its army toegether and well entrentched they should have more numbers and more firepower when meeting the enemy at each flag.

[40mmrain]

The enemy has set himself up for a 120 ticket loss as much as you have set yourself up for a total loss if you're rushed. Clearly one is better than the other. You have to fight over certain flags so the active flags determine the front line of the battle. With more flags comes more ground. This gives more access to strategic positions and the enemy has less and less places to hide beneath the fog of war.

There's no disadvantage to holding more flags than the enemy except if your forward flags are completely undefended. But this is fundamentally impossible at the start of the game as people must be on the on them to capture them. IF you make a successful rush, stifle the enemy's advance, make their forward forces turn back (lazily usually) then the rest of your team that captures all the flags will just gain more and more ground putting down more and more fobs.

[Rudd]

you should also consider the length of supply lines, if you are a primarily ground based team then taking more ground can bite you on the bum in the long run because the enemy are closer to their vehicle depot/main

[MikeDude]

OD-S #1 Rushers PR

This is no news

[Bringerof_D]

I have no problem with rushing, although it's given that name to put it in a bad light it's a real world strategy. Shock troops sent in to disorient an enemy force before they can get a footing in their AO. Heavy assets and platoons sent ahead of a task force to deny enemy movement through an obvious bottle neck. It's something that needs to be considered by every team at the start is where such bottle necks are and is it likely that the enemy team might choose to rush there. I support the strategy of rushing however i feel mappers need to engineer the cap points to be more difficult to hold with little or no logistical support. Coincidentally i recently participated in a first flag rush, i don't do it often but from time to time it seems to be a viable option.

Which leads me to suggest a change to Black Gold. The tunnel bunkers, when an objective, is a very attractive point for a team which may consider rushing as an option. It is far to easy to hold it in a dead lock with even just half a squad of infantry. If the Chinese team makes it there 30 seconds or more before the Russians they can blow the doors, get in and hunker down for a long fight. Even a tank firing down through the tunnels into the room we were holding out in, while infantry charged at us, could not dislodge us. The "Wounded bug" certainly compounded that situation. We managed to hold that flag to the end of the game. I would like to add that at the start of the round one chopper crashed while dropping us (killing 3 of our squad of 7) and the other was flipped accidentally at the main. the team took forever to cap the other flags while we had absolutely no reinforcements and only basic kits between the 4 of us and we held it with ease. I would suggest that the cap zone for that flag be moved outside of the actual tunnels. either on the road on either side of the tunnel or above it.

[matty1053]

I will point the positive things out...

• You can destroy enemy armor or vehicles quickly.
• You will have an advantage by holding their flag.
• Also a possiblility of making a FOB near the first flag, so you can easily kill more reinforcements.
• Again, you will drain tickets from the hostile team.

The negative...

• You are very limited for supplies. (If drove to area)
• If you die, you have to spawn back at main, or firebase.
• You will have limited reinforcements to support you.
• You could be punished for it.

The main rushing maps are I always think of...
Jabal (I think is necessary for the US to win)
Beruit (No brainer.... IDF to Factory!!!)
Kashan (It's vital on that map though)

As well, I get frustrated a TON when I see or am a victim of flag rushing.
It's like: "Dammit! Help the team!".