Commander UAV is too Useful on 2km Maps

[Nightingale]

Nah, you're just a ****. We don't feel the need to have discussions about stuff with people who think insults are a replacement for arguments.

[Frontliner]

That already exists. But it is useless, case and point did you even know Huey's can laze? And aside from the Huey's you can use and helo anytime for recon.

I would say keep the UAV unchanged, for several reasons.

1. It is used >50% of the time
2. It can't laze anymore
3. Heavily wooded maps are good to hide anything that is ambient temperature (FOBS/hidouts)
4. It cannot directly influence a game. True mortars can hit spotted targets, but they can do that anyway if people bothered to actually give targets, and if the insurgent team is smart they can attack the mortars, or rebuild/replace fobs in good spots that are covered from the aerial view.
5. It is the only incentive to have a commander, other than for 30secs every 40mins

1. That's not really relevant to how broken it is. And I do care about the times it is used and even if it would make up as little as 1% of all games.
2. They only made it a bit less broken through that; it comes more tolerable if you ask me. We had UAV lazes before BUT the UAV was quite limited and you had to have a little bit of luck to have it hovering over the actual fighting zone to be able to laze. That made the UAV somewhat unreliable to be constantly assigning targets for the CAS to strike.
3. That's good and all but there's a plethora of maps that have a lot of open ground or very few favourable positions to hold; once you scout out those you'll find up the enemy eventually. And then the only thing you need to worry about which asset to strike said position with. The enemy is resorting to emplacements to fortify? Mortars. Tank's lurking in the vicinity? Recon/CAS/AT Assets take care of it first, then overpower the leftover hostiles. Enemy HAT is elsewhere and no AT to be found? Roll in the tanks.
4. Knowledge is power. If you turn that knowledge into a strategy which minimizes your losses by directing your assets into (almost) foolproof situations, you'll be able to greatly influence the battle - like I described above. You don't need to be a genius to pull this off either. All you need is knowing -precisely- what's going on and the UAV is giving you just that.
To illustrate my point, imagine PR were a game of Chess with one player having full knowledge of where which of your pieces is - and the other one plays with Fog of War with each piece seeing 2 squares around it. The latter player can't place his rook, bishop or queen(APC/Tank/CAS) without making a big gamble, whereas the other player can either wait for you to risk it - or being proactive about it and set up his forces correctly outside of your view range.(Now that I'm saying this, FOW Chess sounds like a really fun thing to play lol)
5. Doesn't make the whole thing any less broken.

[matty1053]

Here is an idea, what if it costs tickets to deploy a UAV, this would first prevent a major modeling task for the devs, but also make the commander less UAV happy. I think the UAV should be a low amount of tickets(around 5), but still enough to make a difference if he uses it too much. To prevent any confusion there should be a note next to the UAV symbol stating that it costs x amount of tickets. Also possibly the commander can still relocate the UAV but it only last about 20-30 minutes.'

However if it was my choice I would leave it the same

This would be a good idea if the ticket counts for each team were over 1000. But honestly, this would absolutly be horrible. I'd rather have 2 Infantry Soldiers go recon for me, 5 tickets is 5 tickets.
750-5=745. 5 tickets is a huge margin in a 50v50 server with assets everywhere. People would keep spawning UAV's though, thats' the thing. Ever see anyoen else use UAV? They place it on average 10 times a round in diff. locations. So, 50 tickets would be lost.

[Abchaz]

The servers are playing more and more infantry layout maps so why not removing the uav and mortars from inf layout to make it even more interesting? UAV and mortars could be available only on heavy asset maps like ones which have CAS.

[curahee150]

This would be a good idea if the ticket counts for each team were over 1000. But honestly, this would absolutly be horrible. I'd rather have 2 Infantry Soldiers go recon for me, 5 tickets is 5 tickets.
750-5=745. 5 tickets is a huge margin in a 50v50 server with assets everywhere. People would keep spawning UAV's though, thats' the thing. Ever see anyoen else use UAV? They place it on average 10 times a round in diff. locations. So, 50 tickets would be lost.

matty, do keep in mind that 5 tickets is just a number (although I think it is a fitting amount) and I think you completely missed the point of the suggestion, you said they place it a a of 10 times a round, if there were ticket cost every time you place a UAV, then there would be less UAV spamming, and lead to commanders actually directing his troops.

[matty1053]

matty, do keep in mind that 5 tickets is just a number (although I think it is a fitting amount) and I think you completely missed the point of the suggestion, you said they place it a a of 10 times a round, if there were ticket cost every time you place a UAV, then there would be less UAV spamming, and lead to commanders actually directing his troops.

I get what your saying though. And honestly, 90% of the time I have seen in matches with commanders, (not including events)... the commander is basically a guy sitting in base. As well as commanders shouldn't really be called commanders anymore... since they rarely, in public matches, actually command his/her troops. There are commanders that a lot of people listen to, such as Swampfox... by far one of the best Commanders in game, if not the best. He doesn't sit in main all game long on the UAV, he goes and builds FOB's a lot of times. AS well, as when he is in the UAV, he does direct squads to locations to help conquer the enemy and such.

I have been commander before of course, but I usually be commander so the CAS and Armor squads don't start crying about: "NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE AA OR AT THERE WTF". Personally, I think the UAV is too useful on all maps.

A way they COULD fix it... is a mobile UAV command station. But I don't think it's possible to code it into PR:BF2. The UAV can only be deployed within 250m of the vehicle. The commander HAS to be in the vehicle in order to have it in the air. So, the enemy team would have an opportunity to destroy the UAV and kill the intelligence from the sky.

[Frontliner]

I get what your saying though. And honestly, 90% of the time I have seen in matches with commanders, (not including events)... the commander is basically a guy sitting in base. As well as commanders shouldn't really be called commanders anymore... since they rarely, in public matches, actually command his/her troops. There are commanders that a lot of people listen to, such as Swampfox... by far one of the best Commanders in game, if not the best. He doesn't sit in main all game long on the UAV, he goes and builds FOB's a lot of times. AS well, as when he is in the UAV, he does direct squads to locations to help conquer the enemy and such.

There's about 9 people who can build FOBs but you leave it to the one guy who can very easily scout out everything you would ever want to know? That's sad. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the UAV being nerfed so the CO can do something else, but currently, that's a waste of strategic potential. A Lot of strategic potential.

[Anderson29]

i really like that commander vehicle idea where the uav can only be deployed 500m from that vehicle. no idea if it is actually do able coding wise. that way a team could counter the uav by destroying that vehicle. then there would actually be some strategy in where to deploy the commander vehicle in order to provide the best intel for your team.

although i wouldnt mind if it was completely removed..

[matty1053]

There's about 9 people who can build FOBs but you leave it to the one guy who can very easily scout out everything you would ever want to know? That's sad. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the UAV being nerfed so the CO can do something else, but currently, that's a waste of strategic potential. A Lot of strategic potential.

What? I didn't say make the commander only person to make a fob. And I do not leave it on the commander to make the FOB's. If I squad lead, I attempt to my ability to get a logi or a trans chopper. And first off, there are too many squad leaders to lazy to make fobs. Apperently K/D is more important than making a FOB on the map and having to rely on the commander to do that.

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I could have typed wrong. What I am saying....
I have witnessed commanders not actually commandering, they are instead buildings FOB's that either, 1) the team is lazy to build them 2) They are in situations where building a fob is the last thing on their mind. But in the later points of the round, commander can place fobs... but it should be his last objective on his mind.


I just can't stand commanders that constantly have their UAV over the enemy main, and NOT helping the team out.

[curahee150]

What? I didn't say make the commander only person to make a fob. And I do not leave it on the commander to make the FOB's. If I squad lead, I attempt to my ability to get a logi or a trans chopper. And first off, there are too many squad leaders to lazy to make fobs. Apperently K/D is more important than making a FOB on the map and having to rely on the commander to do that.

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I could have typed wrong. What I am saying....
I have witnessed commanders not actually commandering, they are instead buildings FOB's that either, 1) the team is lazy to build them 2) They are in situations where building a fob is the last thing on their mind. But in the later points of the round, commander can place fobs... but it should be his last objective on his mind.


I just can't stand commanders that constantly have their UAV over the enemy main, and NOT helping the team out.

Matty,

The commander IS helping out by being in the UAV, if he is giving vital intel about tanks/CAS/inf/APC leaving enemy main and most of the time I see him order squads, around accordingly. Same thing with flags.

[matty1053]

Matty,

The commander IS helping out by being in the UAV, if he is giving vital intel about tanks/CAS/inf/APC leaving enemy main and most of the time I see him order squads, around accordingly. Same thing with flags.

I don't see many commanders giving orders and squad leaders listening. I pretty much see "Tips" for the squad leader to do. And you insist of the commander placing the UAV over the enemy main will help the team? What about the infantry squads that WANT intel of the whereabouts of the enemy fobs and infantry squads are at? I have seen great commanders, ok commanders, and garbage commanders. The great commanders use their UAV properly and use it to plan a movement for infantry and armor units, and will help the team out if they need it to make a fob. The OK commanders will do almost like above, but sit in UAV most of the round and not really put it in certain areas that the team needs it to be in. The Garbage commander just sits in the UAV all game and has it in pointless areas, such as right over the enemy main. When I am commander, I use the UAV a lot. But I do not place it over the enemy team's main. It's extremely a waste and horrible for the team's intel. I guess "A logi has just left the enemy main guys" is more important then; "APC SQUAD, HAT KIT TO YOUR RIGHT SIDE".

[curahee150]

I do see your point, however in certain circumstances it would be more beneficial for the commander to do that such as the flags are all capped, how ever I do realize this is not applicable in all situations, and I was only thinking of the situation I just pointed out it was late when I typed this, sorry about that. Other than that you basically said every reason a UAV should be in the game(point out enemy inf. next to an apc and such). Yes I know you said there were terrible commanders that only just use the UAV, but this is why the mutiny button should be reintroduced ( that is another subject though).

[Micorbe]

As someone who played before mortars were added I don't think they should be removed entirely. I do think the UAV/Mortar combination needs some kind of re-balance on 2KM maps. It it too easy to neutralize enemy emplacements with mortars and a UAV up. I fear the 2KM maps will develop a "meta" where it becomes "have 1st mortars or lose" and nobody wants that. Now the Devs will know much better than I would how to balance their game, but Psyrus's suggestion is my favorite after reviewing the thread.

1km maps:

No UAV
No Mortars


2km maps:

Nerfed UAV [X Minutes uptime, Y minutes downtime where Y>=X]
No Mortars


4km maps:

Less nerfed UAV
Mortars

I also think the idea of nerfing mortars on 2KM maps as opposed to nerfing the UAV may be worth while. In ARMA for example, there are different sizes of mortars that fire different sized shells and different ranges. This may be worth looking at as a suggestion to 2KM maps. Small ranged, smaller shelled mortars.

Again, mortars can be a really fun game changer, I don't think they should be removed. (nor the UAV). I think 4KM maps are perfect the way they are. 2KM may be worth considering some changes.

As an example of why not to remove mortars (as well as a small self plug) I present exhibit A: SKIP TO 4:30


Round ends with a 32 point difference that would likely have been different without mortars.
(ignore me being all confused by the SMAW rifle as that is not relevant)

EDIT: I should state I have no issue with the commander position and think the ongoing argument about it is irrelevant. I see this as a mechanical game balance issue (albeit a small one) that his little or nothing to do with how players choose to use the commander role.

[Heavy Death]

I agree with microbe. But UAV should be timed like it was in the early stages. 10 minute operation time, 2 minute relocation and 10 minute refuel.

[eversmen_br]

15-30 minutes to "recharge" , 1-2 minutes of operation

[matty1053]

How about the UAV recharge will be quicker if you hold X amount of flags?
Ex: Muttrah, the USMC holds Docks, North Suburbs, North West City, South west City. Their UAV's recharge time would be 5 Minutes.
OR...
If you have X amount of tickets.
Ex: Muttrah, the MEC has 150 Tickets, the UAV recharge time gets trimmed down to 5 minutes.

I just think it's rediculous that the UAV doesn't have any of that anymore. At least give everyone the ability to destroy them. (Like vBF2's UAV, but place it higher up)

[Barbrady]

Just make it like it was before the patches. It is causing heavy lag anyway if used too long.

[BattleGuy234]

Psyrus;2040945']My ideal would be:

1km maps:

• No UAV
• No Mortars

2km maps:

• Nerfed UAV [X Minutes uptime, Y minutes downtime where Y>=X]
• No Mortars

4km maps:

• Less nerfed UAV
• Mortars

Don't know if the Devs are still looking at this, but Psyrus' suggestion makes the most sense to me. I'd like to see a change like this in the next patch!

[fatalsushi83]

I like that suggestion too, though I think mortars should be kept on 2k maps. Just nerf the UAV. Taking away mortars from maps like Basrah would make them a little bland in my opinion, and they aren't overpowered as long as there's no UAV that can constantly relocate to different areas of the map and pinpoint enemies.

That said, last time I did a mortar squad on Basrah as insurgents it was a nightmare. The moment we put up mortars and fired a few shots, we would get hit with incredibly accurate return mortar fire. Basically, the mortar/UAV combination made insurgent mortars completely and utterly useless. And the enemy mortar position was surrounded by flat ground and covered by a TOW so we couldn't even get close to them on foot or by car. They were basically untouchable, which is why I agree that the UAV needs to be nerfed.

[viirusiiseli]

Should remove mortars completely and just have area attacks, too often mortar squads with 8 men out of combat, and the kills they get doesn't compensate enough for it.

UAV should still be continuous but the deploy time should be bigger, around 2 minutes. Being able to deploy UAV in <30 seconds is a bit too good. All the people suggesting huge nerfs for UAV, realize that while it seems a small number posting here on the forums, any nerf to it will have a huge impact ingame. And UAV right now is the only thing that gets people to go command atm, make it bad = no commanders.