Commander UAV is too Useful on 2km Maps

[Nightingale]

The more I read other people's posts in this thread the more I think mortars do not belong in 2km maps. 1500m range is just crazy when you know the enemy will be within 2000m.

And I don't know why people think it's such a bad thing that there are rarely commanders in a public match. Most squad leaders in a public server would not obey a commander if he gave orders or tried to co-ordinate the team. Putting in artificial incentives like the UAV and area attack doesn't really solve the problem. People will just go into the commander slot and use the area-attack or UAV for like 3 minutes and then go back to their squad. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Only in a clan-vs-clan match would you get 9 SLs talking to the commander and co-ordinating defenses and maneuvering about.

[Fir3w411]

Should remove mortars completely and just have area attacks, too often mortar squads with 8 men out of combat, and the kills they get doesn't compensate enough for it.

UAV should still be continuous but the deploy time should be bigger, around 2 minutes. Being able to deploy UAV in <30 seconds is a bit too good. All the people suggesting huge nerfs for UAV, realize that while it seems a small number posting here on the forums, any nerf to it will have a huge impact ingame. And UAV right now is the only thing that gets people to go command atm, make it bad = no commanders.

This. The UAV for me is the only thing that I really go commander for besides making FOBS on my own. Really, what else can a commander do? Just put down markers the entire game? That isn't very appealing to anyone I think...

Also about being able to shoot it down, if this will ever be done the UAV should be REALLY hard to see and should require AA to shoot down or else literally anyone can bring it down.

But I think almost everything people have suggested here will bring their own problems eventually if they are implemented.

[viirusiiseli]

Oh and forgot to mention in my previous post, mortars may not be effective for the kills but with commander they can be a deny-all-enemy-FOBs weapon. Had a couple of rounds where all FOBs got taken out by mortars as they were built, so in a way they're overpowered and bad at the same time.

This is why area attacks are a more working solution.

[Elektro]

And I don't know why people think it's such a bad thing that there are rarely commanders in a public match. Most squad leaders in a public server would not obey a commander if he gave orders or tried to co-ordinate the team. Putting in artificial incentives like the UAV and area attack doesn't really solve the problem. People will just go into the commander slot and use the area-attack or UAV for like 3 minutes and then go back to their squad. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Only in a clan-vs-clan match would you get 9 SLs talking to the commander and co-ordinating defenses and maneuvering about.

Try playing on NEW server more often.

[matty1053]

Oh and forgot to mention in my previous post, mortars may not be effective for the kills but with commander they can be a deny-all-enemy-FOBs weapon. Had a couple of rounds where all FOBs got taken out by mortars as they were built, so in a way they're overpowered and bad at the same time.

This is why area attacks are a more working solution.

There mortars.......... You easily take out mortars, you can't take out UAV unless you DDOS the server.

The only time I have seen mortars really stay online the entire game, is when one team STEAMROLLED, and I mean steamrolled the enemy team within 15 minutes. Plus, you can have a commander to spot the mortards.

I love being mortars and commander, since both are "fairly" easy jobs. If I don't want to be infantry, or assets, I'll be mortars. If there are no good squads, then I'll be commander. (or I'll be it for the hell of it). Area attacks are OP, if anything. But the mortar is a whole other thread worthy.

[fatalsushi83]

Oh and forgot to mention in my previous post, mortars may not be effective for the kills but with commander they can be a deny-all-enemy-FOBs weapon. Had a couple of rounds where all FOBs got taken out by mortars as they were built, so in a way they're overpowered and bad at the same time.

This is why area attacks are a more working solution.

Not always true. I've ran mortar squads as redfor on maps like Basrah and Kokan, getting well over 30 kills and destroying enemy fobs and light vehicles. Mortars' effectiveness depends on the map and on how well you use spotters. They're only bad if you're team isn't communicating and they're only overpowered when used in combination with the UAV.

IMO, mortars without the UAV encourage teamwork and communication. The UAV, however, encourages someone to sit on their *** and drop markers on the map, free from any danger and with no need to communicate much.

[himond]

mortars without the UAV encourage teamwork and communication. The UAV, however, encourages someone to sit on their *** and drop markers on the map, free from any danger and with no need to communicate much.

Totally agree

[Jacksonez__]

If you have:

• commander who can spot things
• average mortar team

You can dominate the game in most maps. Just get a mortar base quickly up and fire on enemies building fobs. No fobs for enemies equals win. It happens sometimes. You are deploying a first fob, getting first shovels on it and kaboom, mortars already raining in. You get second fob up, and it's gone already because of mortars

[matty1053]

If you have:

• commander who can spot things
• average mortar team

You can dominate the game in most maps. Just get a mortar base quickly up and fire on enemies building fobs. No fobs for enemies equals win. It happens sometimes. You are deploying a first fob, getting first shovels on it and kaboom, mortars already raining in. You get second fob up, and it's gone already because of mortars

Blame your team for not getting mortars up quickly. I don't notice this happening much. Mortars are very good and useful, especially on Insurgency, as well as AAS maps (4km). But, really what your saying is... the enemy team just runs right out of their main, and builds mortars. Well, half of the time that happens, they are in DOD and forced to remove them. When I use mortars, I make sure that the team is willing to cooperate with me on targets. IF they aren't, then I'll ditch mortars.
But once you find the location for the enemy mortars.... you should always have someone attempt to attack them. IF you do, it will (90% of the time) will stop the mortars for firing and the people will get off them. Muttrah is a great example. Some times MEC will attempt to get mortars up FAST. They usually put them in South City most of the time.

But honestly, mortars should be very limited on 2km maps. Since, on most 2km maps, the mortars can reach all the targets. (pretty much). Look on 4km maps like Khamisiyah. If US has mortars at the oil fields, they can target the bunker complex. They can't reach the city if they have them by the warhouses in oil fields though. So, 4km maps are more appropriate for mortars.

[Unarmed Civilian]

My suggestion:

1- Remove the commander lazing feature. I heard in some maps it still works. This is game breaking and allows cirurgical bombing anywhere in the map.

2- Change the way mortars work. The way it is now mortars are virtually infinite, godlike weapon. Infinite ammo, infinite damage. This is bad and game breaking. My clan used to fortify its position with HMG nests, foxholes, wire, and what not. This died when mortars were introduced. We can no longer use these assets, even inside bunkers like in Kashan, the mortar shells still damage the placeables inside. I suggest that mortars become a "mini area-attack" weapon, only acceptable by a Commander. Make a mortar strike available every 10-20 minutes.

Edit: Mortars against INS is overkill. BLUFOR already has a lot of advantages and now you are going to bomb the entire city as well? What about R.O.E.? INS maps are supposed to take place in urban place, with supposed civilians around, thus the "civilian/martyr" we have in place. Just bomb the area around the cache, which many times is a terrible place, with almost no cover, then rush in with APCs and Tanks, done.

[matty1053]

My suggestion:

1- Remove the commander lazing feature. I heard in some maps it still works. This is game breaking and allows cirurgical bombing anywhere in the map.

2- Change the way mortars work. The way it is now mortars are virtually infinite, godlike weapon. Infinite ammo, infinite damage. This is bad and game breaking. My clan used to fortify its position with HMG nests, foxholes, wire, and what not. This died when mortars were introduced. We can no longer use these assets, even inside bunkers like in Kashan, the mortar shells still damage the placeables inside. I suggest that mortars become a "mini area-attack" weapon, only acceptable by a Commander. Make a mortar strike available every 10-20 minutes.

Edit: Mortars against INS is overkill. BLUFOR already has a lot of advantages and now you are going to bomb the entire city as well? What about R.O.E.? INS maps are supposed to take place in urban place, with supposed civilians around, thus the "civilian/martyr" we have in place. Just bomb the area around the cache, which many times is a terrible place, with almost no cover, then rush in with APCs and Tanks, done.

Love your name! XD

But, there is no more lazing on commander. YOU CAN, Place stationary "lases" by rightclicking on map as Commander. They are far more inaccurate, but are just like a lase a squad leader places.

The mortars aren't used as often anymore it seems like. When I play mortars on a lot of maps, we usually are attacked about 10 min of having our mortars up. Or, we get counter mortared. I'd say have only 2 mortar pits available on 2km maps. And 3 on 4km maps. I think the game is balanced as heck since I started playing. And what do you mean by infinite damage? When I see mortar squads, I really only see the max amount of kills are around 15, if lucky and the enemy team is stupid. The good thing about enemy mortars on Insurgency as a insurgent. They usually team kill their own teammates before they enter the cache building. So, it works out well lol.

[Jacksonez__]

My suggestion:

1- Remove the commander lazing feature. I heard in some maps it still works. This is game breaking and allows cirurgical bombing anywhere in the map.

2- Change the way mortars work. The way it is now mortars are virtually infinite, godlike weapon. Infinite ammo, infinite damage. This is bad and game breaking. My clan used to fortify its position with HMG nests, foxholes, wire, and what not. This died when mortars were introduced. We can no longer use these assets, even inside bunkers like in Kashan, the mortar shells still damage the placeables inside. I suggest that mortars become a "mini area-attack" weapon, only acceptable by a Commander. Make a mortar strike available every 10-20 minutes.

Edit: Mortars against INS is overkill. BLUFOR already has a lot of advantages and now you are going to bomb the entire city as well? What about R.O.E.? INS maps are supposed to take place in urban place, with supposed civilians around, thus the "civilian/martyr" we have in place. Just bomb the area around the cache, which many times is a terrible place, with almost no cover, then rush in with APCs and Tanks, done.

1. Commander can drop a static lase. Not that accurate though.

2. Insurgents have "mini area-attack" in 1 km maps. It is their artillery (=offmap mortars). Available on every 15 minutes. It is very effective if the insurgent team can use it. Combine that with rocket technicals.

In real, you don't need permission from army general to use god damn light mortars So why make it commander-request-only. In real life you have designated mortar spotters (or just random infantry squads) that call targets and then they order indirect fire. Bring back the fire missions before you are able to use mortar?

Mortars giving you a headache? Attack them with artillery or send some 1337-squad to take them down.

[matty1053]

Mortars giving you a headache? Attack them with artillery or send some 1337-squad to take them down.

You usually have a squad like that to do that lol

[Spectrium]

Just make it appeared but invulnerable so it's power can be it's weakness and people can move where uav does not seen.

[Arduras]

I agree with taking UAV out of the game, and I think having a recon squad (and/or recon chopper)
is a good idea. I could write 5 pages on why I think they are good ideas but honestly if you use your
imagination on how this would change the game I'm sure most people will come to at least similar conclusions.


1. Commanding should be about commanding. This is Project REALITY. People should know that there is going to be a chain of command.
2. Coordinating a recon squad around the outskirts of the action (or even to find enemy FOBs, whatever)
would be another level of play (and the recon chopper would essentially be your "eye in the sky" to help
CAS/Armor)
3. Having to actually coordinate your "eyes" is not only another level of play, it will change gameplay
in a positive way. Mortars may be less accurate. The pace may be a bit slower, people will have to actually
think and move tactically instead of charging to the point since UAV says the enemies are "thataway"

The commander should be able to communicate and coordinate with the team effectively, that is
their role. Having the game itself in the team's hands with the commander doing his job is the best way,
imo to have it - instead of giving the "individual player" game-changing power. Whether your team wins
or loses should depend on the entire team, not an INF squad charging each flag like banshees while the
CO sits in a UAV and deletes the occasional FOB the entire game, with APC/CAS sitting like confused kids
wondering which target to hit if the enemy is smart enough not to bunch everything in the same grid.

[Nightingale]

not an INF squad charging each flag like banshees

Hahaha, couldn't have said it better.

UAV problems aside, I still think mortars need a huge nerfing. They're way too effective on 2km maps, and they're easy to setup and resupply using just 2 crates and the officer's radio.

[Arduras]

Hahaha, couldn't have said it better.

UAV problems aside, I still think mortars need a huge nerfing. They're way too effective on 2km maps, and they're easy to setup and resupply using just 2 crates and the officer's radio.

afaik Crates don't even resupply. I had to drop my officer's kit and grab rifleman,
drop a bag - re-arm myself, and keep shipping ammo to the TOW and Mortars.

It was slow. Mortars can go for a little while but they can't really offer the "withering fire"
people expect/desire out of them because they run out of ammo fairly quickly and the
bag only resupplies like 1 TOW or a few mortars. If you have a whole squad dedicated to
mortars I could see it working fine with a short supply line though.

At the end of the day, mortars are fine. If we remove the UAV and rely on people in the
fields mortars will be less accurate (subtle nerf) and besides we're only allowed 3 -
3 rounds every 5 seconds or so until either they run out of ammo or the supply line is cut.
You can only really mortar one place at a time effectively and the enemy can take cover or
even just come at it from a different direction (and their recon squad might find your mortars and shut them down)

[Nightingale]

What I mean is that you don't even need the crates once you have at least 1 mortar pit placed.

Example: 2-man mortar team as Taliban on Kokan. One officer, one rifleman. Officer places the hideout, rifleman digs it. Officer places mortar pit (no crates needed), rifleman digs it. Rifleman fires 10 rounds, officer "un-digs" the pit half-way, and rifleman re-digs it. He is immediately free to fire another 10 rounds. This is a very very easy way for just two people to provide a massive amount of firepower for the whole team, with an effective range of 1500m on a 2000m map. With a four-man mortar team, you can imagine just how huge the volume of fire can be. And an experienced mortar-team is able to fire on up to 3 targets simultaneously.

As soon as the Americans finds out where the mortars are, the Taliban can just remove all pits, drive away in a car, and setup somewhere else in the map and start firing again, all in the span of about 2 minutes.

Conventional factions have to do a little bit more work (all they need is the two crates, and once the mortar-pits are placed, the rest is the exact same as Taliban), but I think it's just way too easy at the moment for mortars on any faction.

[[GER]Birnd]

The combination of Mortars and Commander UAV. All u need is 3 People. Its about who mortars the enemy Mortars first, can then proceed to remove every Single Fob of the Enemy Team.A Pain in the *** to operate Mortars in a Game that can be fun, so at least its not happening that often.