[FEEDBACK] Insurgency 2.0 Alpha - 1st Test Event

[Frontliner]

If nothing else, I hope the new UAV mechanics will be implemented for 1.3.

I think the biggest change is the amount of active caches being reduced to just one, which forces both sides to condense near the cache location. I think it works detrimental to the gameplay as INS can simply win by putting the Cache near their main, or near one of the corners of the map. To alleviate the issue, I would propose to have 2 caches again:
-one being put by the CO, with the current mechanics of intel gathering closing in on the cache
-one being put randomly at one of the map's cache, which will be revealed after BluFor gets a certain amount of intel points.

This would fix the exploitability of the current system, as well as encourage some good old Cache hunting.


The other mechanic which needs to be revamped is the Civi mechanic. While it's nice to not have to wait so much until you can finally become a martyr as the timer is reduced to half of what it is, if a player is only lightly wounded by BluFor fire, he can just drop the kit, bleed out, and become a martyr easily that way. This needs to be addressed one way or the other. Maybe make it so that a drop kit can only be made if you're above 75% HP? Or maybe bring back the Collaborator so you don't have to wait at all?


Outside of those, the other changes are pretty nice and I can see INS being fun again.

[Mats391]

Dropping kit while wounded should not make you a martyr. This was added in 1.2 iirc.

[Rudd]

Really like the 40minute timer, makes cache defence so much more satisfying rather than spending hours at the same place, helps focus blufor into attacking rather than pussyfooting around. timer could go longer, but please not more than 60mins, 40 minutes is more like what I'd want.

Map balance is obviously affected by the changes, some GPOs may need to be revisited - some caches could be deleted too - those near to INS/Blufor main for example.

Although this test has highlighted to me that it might be time to say goodbye to Karbala. The map is really showing its age.

[gamma_gandalph]

I think the OPFOR CO setting the cache location is the one change that might bring about some real change on the insurgency mode. I'd say, add on that idea. The reason I think this might become a gamechanger is that the reason for insurgency getting so little love is the absolute lack of teamplay on insurgents. Rarely do squad mates work together and even more rarely do squads work together. A CO tieing this all up by assigning a cache location and then assigning squads to defend might change that.

What I would love to see would be the following:

1. Make the cache location set by CO completely. Not a random location close, but just like a FOB.

2. Give squad leaders the ability to set one fake cache. Looks like the cache, no resupply, acts as a rally point for that squad. Destroying it gives BLUFOR a decent amount of intel points.

3. Give squad leaders the ability to build some more emplacements in the cache area. Roadblocks, HMGs, SPGs, the like.

4. Reduce the number of caches for BLUFOR to win to 3.

My thoughts behind these suggestions:

1. This will focus the team. CO will make a conscious decision about where to defend and can assign squads to defend, man emplacements (see 3) and set up a fake cache (see 2). Problem might be that it will become harder for BLUFOR as the CO can choose good locations. There need to be some rules in place, obviously. For one, make it like in CnC that you can't put it on the edges of the map. Secondly, make it impossible to place it too close to OPFOR main base. And three, there need to be some random backup locations, in case there is no CO.

2. This will give squads and squad leaders more purpose. Defenders can rely on actual tactics and creating choke points instead of just relying on numbers and respawns.

3. This will give squads things to do as well. It will also synergize with the new intel/location system. Put a fake cache somewhere around the marker that BLUFOR can see and defend it. It is a calculated risk, though, as it on the one hand binds BLUFOR forces, but on the other hand gives intel if destroyed.

4. The changes thus far and my suggestions as well are all tied to making the game easier to win for OPFOR. To counter that, the number of caches needs to be reduced. It will be way easier to defend these caches now, so destroying three should be enough.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

While I only got to play one round of Lashkar last night due to high ping, I can see the points that are being brought up in this thread so far. Here are some of my thoughts.

I would like to address the changes I've heard for the CIVIES. As you know, this is one of my favorite subjects.

Dropping kit while wounded should not make you a martyr. This was added in 1.2 iirc.

I don't have enough information on this but it isn't always true. The only reason I say this is because my CIVI squad has wondered at times why they didn't die as a martyr so I know it happens from time to time. The timer to become a martyr should be back up to 2 minutes. YES, I said it. I see the reason for this because I have always received grief from everyone about playing CIVI as hardcore as I do. Even had some admins threaten to kick me on certain maps. That aside, because I don't feel confident with Mats391 assertion, I think the 2 minute timer helps slow the game down for the insurgents as well as puts more on the CIVI SL to work the tactics. The distance is a good thing, it's far enough to not allow for "meat shielding" but just close enough to allow for the %@#$!@ that likes to follow CIVIES around, to not interfere with their martyr'ing. Now, with my concession on the 2 minutes though, I would like to see an increased punishment in some kind of way for CIVI teamkillers (guns only). My whole reason for this is that 2 minutes quickly become 4, 6, and 8 if folks constantly teamkill CIVIES. It happens more than you think.


[R-DEV]Rabbit - dedicated civi kit

I don't agree with this totally. I understand your premise as in real life you don't see civilians run around with camo vests. Well, maybe not in the middle east but in the south during hunting season, you see them everywhere. In the deep redneck country, it is even wore to work. My main reason for disagreement is that this is a game and the dedicated civi kit would take away a kit slot and those are very precious.


Ok, now onto other things. Let's talk about the CASH....

1. In regards to the cache being taken within 40 minutes, can this be varied based upon the map size? The 40 minutes is just a tad on the long side for a map the size of Fallujah but way too short for a map the size of Black Gold.

2. Increase the distance for cache placement from other "active" cache locations. I like the current 200m distance from old caches because that would happen in the regular PR. Again, map size might help factor this?

3. Love Love Love the ability for the commander to place a cache. Please keep this feature with one twist. Put a timer on the cache placement so that it becomes "visible" to everyone but not "known" to everyone. I do kind of miss the days of cache hunting and I think that this may bring some balance back to Blufor.


<Edit> The distance killing not adding to intel points is going to mess with my math calculations regarding how many intel points a team has. For this reason, I'm still pushing for some type of visible or way to calculate intel points with a bit more accuracy. Heck, make the intel points visible but do the rounding up thing that you guys do so well (SL sets marker 5 meters away and check range, PR says it is 25, 50, or 100 - whichever the keypad size is).

I will play some more today and most likely have more thoughts to add later. Till then......

[Spectrium]

Instead of self-marking and fake self-marking of caches just remove of cache markings and let blufor observe for cache points. Even fake caches does not stop insurgents turtling on the cache and all. It does not give any risks to take by insurgent officers.

Also spawning insurgent armaments is too damn high. As If you are making changes on insurgency mode you should make some radical changes especially on city insurgent maps about this.

Cas with hydra still have so much power over caches even with improved civilian role. I do not know if a civilian have to wait 1 minutes after someone with a weapon passed by. Because in times where civilian situation does not change by armed guys around you. Assets with heavy weapons were more careful to fire into closed areas.

[wrecker]

+1 to Gamma's idea.
I think the cache placement should be basically exactly as it is done in CnC (even including emplacements). I'm not sure about the actual fake cache idea, but with the intel marker system, it would be easy enough to fake a cache without actually putting down a "fake cache". All you'd have to do is concentrate a bunch of insurgents around a building and sooner or later Blufor will notice.

[gamma_gandalph]

I'm not sure about the actual fake cache idea, but with the intel marker system, it would be easy enough to fake a cache without actually putting down a "fake cache". All you'd have to do is concentrate a bunch of insurgents around a building and sooner or later Blufor will notice.

That is true, but the fake cache will give the squad that placed it additional incentive to defend the location. But maybe the fake cache needs to give more benefits to become useful again.

Oh, and one more opinion, one many probably won't agree with, but I would vote for removing civilians entirely. They are a great idea, but they just don't work as intended or at least not as I would think they are intended, namely as observers and scouts. One, BLUFOR ALWAYS keeps shooting them, and two, OPFOR is (ab)using that. So all they are is martyr machines, which in my opinion, makes the game less interesting for everyone. No action for the defending team and tedious searching for BLUFOR.

I think the only way to make civies work better would be to seriously punish BLUFOR for killing them. I mean really really seriously, so that BLUFOR soldiers will ALWAYS have to think twice and ID their targets before shooting. And I mean seriously like instantly die for the killer, AT LEAST a five minute spawn timer, and a hefty loss of tickets of at least 30. That would be the only thing that would hurt BLUFOR enough to really consider not shooting civies. But this would lead to a myriad of other problems, not the least of which would be even heavier abuse of civies that would be needed to adress without nerfing civies into oblivion again. Despite all my love for the concept of civilian collaborators in Insurgency, I believe PR is just not the game that can support that.

[fecht_niko]

-Reduce to 3 caches

-Cache marker should become more accurate

-try to balance the different INS factions (milita much better than insurgents)

[K4on]

-Cache marker should become more accurate

it gets more accurate if you stop killing civis all the time, niko.

but yeah -> changelog, cache marker was only updating for new players/when you rejoined the server.
that one got fixed.

[wrecker]

I really do think an intel bar (something to tell Blufor how much intel they have) would be good to have.

[UTurista]

Using the fob system for the caches would allow glitched caches and remove the power that the mapper has in the map, for that reason the caches will always be linked to a fixed position.

[wrecker]

Well it's hard to make glitched fobs already and if it was made a ban-able offense to build glitched caches it would be easy to find the culprit because it will just be the opfor commander. Plus if there was a short (2-minute?) period of time after placing a cache that it could be moved to a different location within say 50m it would be possible to rebuild glitched caches.

[Mats391]

- snip -

If you have situations where you did not become martyr, but should, or situations where dropping while bleeding made you martyr, please do report those separately in the bug forums. These are features from 1.2. As soon as we know that there is an issue, we can start fixing it

[Nightingale]

I really do think an intel bar (something to tell Blufor how much intel they have) would be good to have.

+1 to this.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

I'm looking over the thread again and reflecting. Here's my simplest feedback that I think cuts through all the technical things.

Make sure that the next patch allows us to have fun while soothing the tactical guys. I think that in the fog of PR, the fact that it is a game is lost on some people. Sometimes I think that if all the grids and measurements were even numbers, some of the tactical guys would have tacticasm's..... is that a word?

Thank you for all that you do DEVS!

[LiamNL]

I like the changes, they spruce up the game quite a bit. But it does make the game in favor of the insurgents a lot more, I have not seen a single game won by blufor with the changes.

I think the number of caches would have to be reduced because now it's a lot harder to actually get the caches. Also certain locations should not be available,

example I just played fallujah and we had a pretty decent round. We destroyed a cache under the hospital with great pain and then we waited for the next one, but the next one pops up right next to their base in the top right corner. They have heavilly fortified this area and have set up to engage all sides, sometimes a single guy manages to sneak in close but is soon killed by the overwhelming amount of insurgents because they only have one cache to defend with a 100 players...
Through this could also be fixed by having a second cache like the default gamemode.

Don't know if I'm right or wrong but this is currently my spectrum unless shown otherwise.

[StandardSmurf]

I liked all the changes however here are the few things I dislike ...

1) Cache spawnable even when surrounded.

2) After the cache moves twice blufor loses. I suggest increase to 3 moves.

3) Civi's arrested with shotgun unrealistic.

4) Civi kits should be brought back

5) Bring back sapper with pipe bombs that stick to walls, the big IEDs are cool for roads but that's it.

6) Choosing where the next cache spawns really gives a crazy advantage to the opfor. If you know the hard cache spawns you could just keep the caches spawning there and make things frustrating to the point of not being fun for blufor, even more people will not want to play INS mode. Limit this to one move per round instead of setting every next cache.

7) As someone else suggested, and has been suggested before, an intel points bar. If intel points are such an important part of INS they need to be monitored somehow, please incorporate this into INS mode.

Thank you for the hard work making PR such an enjoyable mod, please consider these suggestions.

[UTurista]

example I just played fallujah and we had a pretty decent round. We destroyed a cache under the hospital with great pain and then we waited for the next one, but the next one pops up right next to their base in the top right corner.

The idea at long run was making this behavior some how predictable, 'causing attackers (Blufor) to have a proper tactic well defined or even a squad guarding these locations (Commander can't place a cache if attackers are near it)

Through this could also be fixed by having a second cache like the default gamemode..

The all concept was to remove the 2nd cache, its not fun for insurgents to wait in one cache while everyone is in the other and then a single guy can sneak through the bored insurgents.

1) Cache spawnable even when surrounded.

I have no information of this bug happening today, this only happened yesterday if I'm not mistaken.

[RAWSwampFox]

3) Civi's arrested with shotgun unrealistic.

4) Civi kits should be brought back

Good Evening,

The game mechanics force the use of a "shotgun" as a mechanism to shoot "beanbags" to simulate the "arrest". Can't be helped from what I understand.

The CIVI kit never went away. The Collaborator kit was just that, a Collaborator kit and not a true CIVI kit as it has so evolved. All factions get "CIVI" kits which is technically an "Unarmed" kit. I ran around once with a British CIVI kit, how did I know it was a British CIVI kit, well, I could salute and I had no binocs. I waited my 2 minutes after switching kits and was martyred.

I really don't know that there is an answer for everything but I do hope that the CIVI kit is here to stay. With the complete understanding that I don't know any code, DEVS, if you want to incorporate any of my CIVI information into the hopefully updated manual, please let me know. I hope you do put more information in the new manual because I believe that this kit has become way more popular than anyone could have imagined. I have played PR for years and have never ever had this much fun on Insurgency. I am now an Insurgent whore. I dare say that you see more people now switch to Insurgent than to blufor. The next best thing was the C4 clown cars, God, those were the DAYS!