[FEEDBACK] Insurgency 2.0 Alpha - 1st Test Event

[K4on]

thanks of joining and for all the feedback.

we are now analyzing all the technical and gameplay issues and will announce the next alpha test in probably 2 weeks.

cheers!

[Daniel]

Was server full all evening?

[Jabba]

My experience with Insurgency 2.0 Alpha - 1st Test Event
On Saturday i played a round on Karbala as BlueFor. The squad which i was in was getting mad kills with mortars at the cachlocation because the enemy keept on spawning on the cach but you alrady patched this. The other thing i noticed was that our points were getting reset regularly because the civis keept on running in the cacharea. A civilian wouldn't run in a fight. So the changes for the civis weren't good for mortars (maybe ban the civis from the cach area would make sence for me).
On Sunday i played as OpFor on Korengal Valley. My squad tryed to bind the BlueFor on other than the cach locations, somtimes successfully. The rest of the team were swarming around the actual cach location which locked good and OpFor won the round but it didn't provided/forced the amount of teamplay i hoped for.
I hope this helps a little.

Jabba

[jayceon515]

Here's my view on this new insurgency mode.

I personally like the ins commander feature of placing caches. Maybe there should be a minimun distance from ins main base where caches can spawn. What I really don't like is only having one cache at a time. This makes it nearly impossible for blufor to even get close to the cache when it's surrounded by 40+ insurgents.

I also noticed that there is a lot more teamwork going on opfor team on maps that feature taliban/militia/hamas as opfor compared to insurgent maps (fallujah, basrah, karbala etc.).
IMO it's because there is more incentive to play together as a squad when you can spawn with all the necessary kits that are essential for squad play. On insurgent team the kit menu is ridiculous. Medic and sapper are combat ineffective and having an AR or RPG in your squad relies mostly on picking up that kit at caches or at main, where there are many others wanting the same thing. And there is also lack of longer range weapons such as SVD. IMO there should be at least 4 SVD pickup kits for a 50p team.

Maybe consider updating the insurgent kit menu. Give medic and sapper a proper gun (AKS or AK47), give the shotgun kit a grappling hook instead of medic, make a limited RPK and RPG spawn kit for squads with at least 5 members just like the taliban/militia. Remove the binos from RPG and RPK kits to make them rely on other squad members. Maybe get rid of that single shot WW2 rifle kit, which is useless at short as well as at long range.
Replace the RPK and RPG pickup kits at caches and main base with an SVD pickup kit. Leave the PKM as is.
Maybe add a couple new pickup kits to the mix to make it more interesting for insurgents.

IMO the worst thing about playing as insurgent for most players is lack of team play, getting shot from a far away and never getting revived so you spend half the time looking at the spawn screen. Maybe reduce the insurgent spawn time by 5-10 seconds since they die more and get extra spwan time anyway.

[Nightingale]

Suggestion: the further away from OpFor mainbase the cache is, the less time is needed to defend it. So if you only put your caches close to your mainbase, you'll have to defend it much longer. Perhaps also reward the BluFor with more tickets the closer the cache is to the OpFor main.

I really like the new INS 2.0, but it's just too easy to win as the OpFor. Looking forward to seeing what changes you guys decide to make.

[[KSK]Eichhoernsche]

First of all a big thanks to turista and the PR devs for working in this.

In general I like most oft the changes however all of them make the insurgents too powerful.

UAV Changes: sound fair to me, but will in the end will maybe lead to even fewer people who want to Command

Hideout Distance: I think 100m are way too close. Insurgents can surround a cache completely and unless Bluefor is really really organized there is no chance to cut their supplies. If you do something like that, the ins respawn time should depend on how close the hideout is to the cache

Free Cache Selection: Really nice idea, but I this might lead to the same cache locations (e.g. just caves...) If the engine would be capable oft doing that I think it would be better if a certain point with a Radius is given in which the commander can choose where to put the cache.

Reduced Civi time and distance\limited attack time\only one cache\inaccurate markers: great, love that

Have you also discussed again the usage of enemy kits? I could think of limiting the usage to requestable kits only like engineer, sniper, marksman, hat, etc. This leads to the fact the bluefor needs to care about their special stuff

[SIDEKILL3R]

I LOVE INS 2.0!!!!!

would recommend a increase on Tickets for Bluefor on certain maps like Korengal, Gaza where is basically CQC i think it only be fair for a 150-200 ticket increase other than that i love this can't wait v1.3 and coughmoremapscough

[fatalsushi83]

Didn't get to play enough of the test to see if this is a feature but are players given warnings about how much time is left before the cache location changes? If warning were given to both teams maybe every 10 minutes and then five minutes before the location changes it would add some more pressure and make the fights more intense. It's more exciting camping the cache (or attacking it) when you know you only have a minute or two left. And emphasizing this "fight against the clock" aspect would help to differentiate insurgency from the AAS gamemode which is less focused on time.

[Pronck]

I haven't played it, but from the feedback it seems that the changes are good. Make it hard for BLUFOR, it shouldn't be a walk in the park for them.

[Curry]

I haven't played it, but from the feedback it seems that the changes are good. Make it hard for BLUFOR, it shouldn't be a walk in the park for them.

The solution is not to make it hard for BLUFOR, in fact insurgents are winning most maps, but to bring back the fun to the INS team. While BLUFOR get huge KDRs, the insurgents are just getting raped but still winning the game.

Curry.

[ComradeHX]

The solution is not to make it hard for BLUFOR, in fact insurgents are winning most maps, but to bring back the fun to the INS team. While BLUFOR get huge KDRs, the insurgents are just getting raped but still winning the game.

Curry.

Rolling back on some of broken civi changes made Insurgents more fun.

[fatalsushi83]

The solution is not to make it hard for BLUFOR, in fact insurgents are winning most maps, but to bring back the fun to the INS team. While BLUFOR get huge KDRs, the insurgents are just getting raped but still winning the game.

Curry.

I totally agree. Insurgency is definitely not a walk in the park for blufor and they lose most of the time. But the insurgent faction needs something like more deployables to make it more fun. Also +1 for bringing pipe bombs back but i know there were problems b/c people would make impromptu OP bomb cars with them.

[fatalsushi83]

I just wanted to reiterate that I think there are two major issues with insurgency:

1. Too hard for blufor to win on most maps (especially when civilians are being killed)
2. Can be boring for Iraqi insurgents b/c of limited options + lack of teamwork (no rallies, limited deployables, etc.)

I wanted to say this again because it seems like most of the changes the devs have been talking about (allowing insurgents to chose cache locations, having the cache move after a set period of time, lowering the 10 meter rule for civilians) will only make it even more difficult for bluefor to win and won't really make it that much for fun for the insurgents.

I'm thinking that bluefor will have to be givin a big advantage to even things up, like lowering the cache count from 5 to 4 or 3, for example. Also, it's still too easy for a few trigger-happy players to kill civilians, thus dragging out the game, irritating all of the blufor players, and most likely leading to a loss. Restricting the number of civilians, having them cost less intelligence, or enforcing stricter punishments for killing them might help things.

I'm guessing the devs are well-aware of these issues but I wanted to post just in case.

Looking forward to the next update as always and thanks for all the work.

[ComradeHX]

I just wanted to reiterate that I think there are two major issues with insurgency:

1. Too hard for blufor to win on most maps (especially when civilians are being killed)
2. Can be boring for Iraqi insurgents b/c of limited options + lack of teamwork (no rallies, limited deployables, etc.)

I wanted to say this again because it seems like most of the changes the devs have been talking about (allowing insurgents to chose cache locations, having the cache move after a set period of time, lowering the 10 meter rule for civilians) will only make it even more difficult for bluefor to win and won't really make it that much for fun for the insurgents.

I'm thinking that bluefor will have to be givin a big advantage to even things up, like lowering the cache count from 5 to 4 or 3, for example. Also, it's still too easy for a few trigger-happy players to kill civilians, thus dragging out the game, irritating all of the blufor players, and most likely leading to a loss. Restricting the number of civilians, having them cost less intelligence, or enforcing stricter punishments for killing them might help things.

I'm guessing the devs are well-aware of these issues but I wanted to post just in case.

Looking forward to the next update as always and thanks for all the work.

I don't know why you think civi needs more nerf.

It takes 15+120s just to become civi immediately after spawn； then you had to walk to blufor...and hope you get killed instead of arrested by semiauto shotgun...

And then you get 120s respawn timer for arrest and regular timer for martyr...only costing blufor longer respawn timer and 10intel（last time I checked） which a decent blufor squad can make up for, easily.

Civi is fine； idiot triggerhappy blufor needs buff to skill.


If INS wins, so be it... BluFor does not win IRL if they shoot a ton of civvies and mortar a populated city...

[fatalsushi83]

From what I know, the timer will be reduced from 120 to 60 seconds and the radius from 10 meters to something like 3, making it much easier to martyr.

I think this issue gets tricky when you have dedicated civi squads (what SwampFox always does) that use tactics like running into enemy area attacks or stacking 6-8 bodies on a ladder (getting them to overlap so it looks like one player) and getting APCs to shoot them. These are the kind of tactics that make it possible for one careless player to kill a full squads of civies at a time and drag the game out.

People say things like blufor is for noobs or blufor is overpowered but the stats show that they lose most of the time. And with all of the other advantages that the insurgents will get in the next patch, its going to be every more difficult for them.

BTW, I prefer redfor but I like an intense, evenly-matched game, not one where you know you're probably going to win even before it begins

[ComradeHX]

From what I know, the timer will be reduced from 120 to 60 seconds and the radius from 10 meters to something like 3, making it much easier to martyr.

I think this issue gets tricky when you have dedicated civi squads (what SwampFox always does) that use tactics like running into enemy area attacks or stacking 6-8 bodies on a ladder (getting them to overlap so it looks like one player) and getting APCs to shoot them. These are the kind of tactics that make it possible for one careless player to kill a full squads of civies at a time and drag the game out.

People say things like blufor is for noobs or blufor is overpowered but the stats show that they lose most of the time. And with all of the other advantages that the insurgents will get in the next patch, its going to be every more difficult for them.

BTW, I prefer redfor but I like an intense, evenly-matched game, not one where you know you're probably going to win even before it begins

Dedicated civi squad = doing it right; mostly for punishing BluFor for doing it wrong.

Blufor blindly dropping mortar into populated city = doing it wrong.
Blufor APC using thermals 100% of time and still can't recognize silhouette of civi = doing it wrong.
Blufor hosing down a group of people(civi) with scoped AR when even his scope can barely tell the difference between civi and armed insurgents = doing it wrong.

Therefore INS should win if BluFor does not even have a spotter for mortar or a competent APC crew who knows when to and when NOT to fire.

If I know I am in a competent, dedicated civi squad and that enemy team is a bunch of idiots who just want to get kills; I should have a decent guess at who will win the round.

Going by real life example; insurgents should win more often.

[fatalsushi83]

Its funny we're having this discussion considering that last time on Basrah I tricked blufor into firing mortars at a clump of civillians, which included you, Comrade. One mortar round killed 5 civies instantly, leading to an execution for the mortar man. But I only did it because the blufor mortar/uav combo is just so damn cheap and can't be countered in any other way!

[mat552]

Dedicated civi squad = doing it right; mostly for punishing BluFor for doing it wrong.

This is why collabs are an unfun game mechanic. Collabs get to have fun and bluefor need to be perfect. It's a recipe for disaster in any game to have that arrangement.

Remember, there cannot be true civilians in BF2. By writ of the game code itself there are two teams, a binary selection. If someone is not on your side of the scoreboard they inherently have opposing victory conditions to you. There is no ambiguity, no room for hypotheticals. If you are bluefor, anybody not wearing your camo is your enemy and needs to be killed if you want to have a chance at victory.

Further, for all the discussion of RoE or roleplaying, collabs never behave as if they are bound by the laws they screech bluefor ought to be.

...Actually

Perhaps collaborators should have tasks they must accomplish to earn their protected status. Let's make them dig wells or pave roads or document archaeological relics. Let's create intricate and unfathomable rules so that they never know for sure when they are vulnerable.

[viirusiiseli]

This is why collabs are an unfun game mechanic. Collabs get to have fun and bluefor need to be perfect. It's a recipe for disaster in any game to have that arrangement.

Shotgun 8 of them and see if they still have fun. You can scare people from doing civi very fast by arresting them a bit.

[K4on]

closing this, new thread will be opened when we continue the test phase.