PR Statistics / Useless Information

[peaveyyyy]

are you saying that an HMG takes one person 26 shovels to dig and it takes two people 26 digs each to dig? Or two people 13 digs each?

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

It is 26 in total with 13 per person when 2 people dig. When you compare this to the FOB, the FOB actually decreases on the total number of shovels/digs, this is not so with the FOB assets.

The FOB assets are easier at math, so to speak though, divide 26 by however many people you have digging and that is how many shovels/digs it will take.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

Ok, here is some pretty accurate information done on an empty server for a "clean laboratory" environment setting.

Please note that these may be off just a hair due to the fact that these things start degrading once they have been placed.

Asset //// Shovels //// Time to build

FOB - 45 - 1:30
HMG - 25 - :52
Razorwire - 26 - :54
Foxhole - 21 - :44
Mortar - 32 - 1:05
TOW - 26 - :54
AA - 25 - :52
Sandbag - 22 - :46

Now, it appears that you produce 10 shovels every 20 seconds. Also, since the razorwire is the only asset that can be built by a Combat Engineer's wrench, it takes the same number of "wrenches" to build but it is done in about :20 seconds.

Yes devs, I know the shovel is treated the same as a medic bag but the animations (shovels/digs) is the only thing I can measure this by so this is my method.

[Jacksonez__]

"One Man Emergency TOW" needs 2-4 shovels then you can hop on it, wait for warm-up and destroy enemy armor before the unfinished placement kills you. Tested in real combat

[KillJoy[Fr]]

Thank you Fox i'll take this in account for my shovelling bot.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Update....

It takes 30 shovels for the 5m roadblocks and 42 for the 10m roadblocks.

For very very high roadblocks, place the roadblock on a vehicle. Make sure to place it where it is like almost sliding off the back of the car so the car will bounce and move out of the way. It will take some practice but it can be done. Now, you can probably only get around six 5m roadblocks before the car is destroyed. You can make a 10m very high but it will destroy the car.

Did anyone notice the 2/3 reduction in needed Intel Points for a known cache? This equates to 50 deaths on the Insurgent team. While this is an apparent move to increase focused strategy and teamwork on the Insurgent side, the mindset is such that we just shoot, kill, die, and respawn with impunity. Until this mindset it changed or the devs see the constant 30 minute insurgency rounds, blufor will continue the steamroll.

[fatalsushi83]

Have blufor really been steamrolling that much? Before the update insurgency rounds tended to drag on and statistically redfor usually won on most maps so I don't mind this change. I think we should wait and see if players adjust and if more balanced gameplay is achieved before being too critical.

[ComradeHX]

Have blufor really been steamrolling that much? Before the update insurgency rounds tended to drag on and statistically redfor ususlly won on most maps so I don't mind this change. I think we should wait and see if players adjust and if more balanced gameplay is achieved. Before being too critical.

Insurgents only win when BluFor has way more new players than not.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

I don't think I'm being too critical here. A 2/3 reduction in anything is too much to swallow all at once. Take 2/3 fat out of your milk = water, take 2/3 out of your paycheck = homeless, make the armor 2/3 less strong = insta-death, reduce anything by 2/3 and it's a huge chunk.

[fatalsushi83]

I don't think it's just a matter of blufor winning if they have good players because the devs clearly said that their stats show that redfor wins most of the rounds on most maps. Unless good players consistently teamswtich to the insurgent side, which is probably not the case, insurgency is easier for redfor to win, which means it could use some balancing.

Though 2/3 may be too much, as Swampfox said, I think that reducing the necessary intelligence points is a very simple solution to this balance problem. It also helps to keep the rounds from dragging on (some of them did for 2-3 hours). And if 50 proves too much, maybe 100? This number can be easily tweaked until the game is more balanced for both sides but I think we just need more time to find out who has the advantage now.

[TheMerchantOfMenace]

Have blufor really been steamrolling that much? Before the update insurgency rounds tended to drag on and statistically redfor usually won on most maps so I don't mind this change. I think we should wait and see if players adjust and if more balanced gameplay is achieved before being too critical.

I don't think it's just a matter of blufor winning if they have good players because the devs clearly said that their stats show that redfor wins most of the rounds on most maps. Unless good players consistently teamswtich to the insurgent side, which is probably not the case, insurgency is easier for redfor to win, which means it could use some balancing.

Though 2/3 may be too much, as Swampfox said, I think that reducing the necessary intelligence points is a very simple solution to this balance problem. It also helps to keep the rounds from dragging on (some of them did for 2-3 hours). And if 50 proves too much, maybe 100? This number can be easily tweaked until the game is more balanced for both sides but I think we just need more time to find out who has the advantage now.

The only difference is that now there are tons more players throwing themselves at the enemy caches with no plan, no idea, no smoke, no grenadier and AR suppressive fire, etc., so BluFor tickets now bleed at an alarming rate (not to mention the lack of use of medics contributing to this).

When a cache is at the edge of deserts, open fields and such, a built up BluFor FOB in said open spaces to provide supportive HMG and TOW suppressive fire would also save sh*tloads of tickets, but such emplacements don't ever seems to get built before BluFor runs into the enemy cache sphere.

Secondly, when a cache is first revealed on the map, BluFor also would have the option of holding back at some secure or fortified location and to keep farming Intel until such time as a second cache is revealed on the map (which normally shouldn't be all that long after the exposure of the first cache as long as BluFor is not shooting civis like circus balloons), then BluFor would have the option of choosing the "easier" cache, and perhaps sending a diversionary squad to the other cache, while the whole team could concentrate on the chosen cache. More than one known cache forces the Insurgents to defend each cache with only half of their team, while only one revealed cache basically allows them to concentrate pretty much their whole team on that one cache's defenses, leading to a very much higher ticket loss per cache for the BluFor team.

The issue is not one of balance, the issue is more one of the new breed of players, it's more an issue of impatience, lack of planning, lack of understanding, lack of intelligence?, and probably mostly ADHD.

Otherwise, though it may take a longer time, BluFor should nearly always win the INS rounds, and if any balancing were necessary, it should be in favor of more help for the INS side.

Keeping things as they are might be best in order to force BluFor to improve/change their tactics (or lack thereof).

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Ok, I understand that most folks do not like a long round of anything and that most COD/HALO/CSS (console gamers), don't like to sit that long in one round, it wears out the one brain cell they have left. I personally love a strategy and tactic filled game. The senseless rounds of blitz or slam bam thank you ma'am is tiring. When those types of rounds go on during the evening, it doesn't matter if you have a fast or slow computer, you wind up spending more time loading and unloading a map than you do playing. The speed at which some of these rounds go is illustrated in people's unwillingness to build proper FOBs and plan teamwork. PR is really about strategy and tactics versus COD/HALO/CSS fast rounds, or at least that is what it used to be.

My question would be that if there isn't ROE built into the faction, would it be possible for those faction insurgency maps to have a higher IP structure for the caches?

[fatalsushi83]

OK, so you're both saying the problem is stupid people. What should we do about that other than appealing on the forums to people who are already very much teamwork-oriented and looking back to a Golden Age of PR when everyone was intelligent and communicative?

Changing the intelligence point values because its statistically too difficult for one side to win, that I understand. But changing numbers or other game mechanics isn't going force uncooperative people to play as a team. The amount of teamwork depends mostly on the quality of the squad leaders and the server admins.

[matty1053]

-snip-

I agree with nearly everything you said Menace.... (except the ADHD part really, wasn't really necessary).

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love insurgency. But I can't take it serious since a lot of people that love the gamemode don't either. They just play for the shits and giggles. I really thought .95 was one of the funnest versions. I remember insurgency was just FUN. People actually took it seriously. Now, it seems like a joke of a game mode. Almost like what you'd see in Call of Duty or Battlefield.


I really prefer AAS because you have less idiots that don't take the game seriously on AAS. I just can't explain my point of view on insurgency now a days.... It's just, terrible.


There is nothing wrong with the game-mode itself... just the idiots that play it and don't take it seriously. I can't wait to get my new PC so I can record a few rounds and prove to those who think "everyone takes insurgency seriously". I think it's very balanced if everyone actually took insurgency seriously and played tactically.

I know I'll get a negative/harsh response to this.

So really, here is a statistic:
Insurgency is horrifying when you have a blufor team of unintelligent players constantly causing your team to lose.

Well, I think in the next month everything will clear up and be more happy for us PR vets. Unless a popular youtuber such as Devildog or that Frankiein1080p guy post a video about PR... then server admins will have a blast!

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

It takes 38 seconds for an Insurgent Combat Engineer to build a 10m roadblock and 25 seconds to build a 5m roadblock.

It takes 1:23 to build a 10m roadblock with one shovel and 1:03 to build a 5m roadblock with one shovel.

It looks like it takes at least 10 seconds before the roadblock becomes big/tall.

Now, with this in mind, it takes around 43 shovels for the 10m roadblock. Remember that this isn't reduced in number like a FOB but rather just divided amongst the number of shovels digging.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

Ok, I don't know where this would ever be useful but here it is. I don't know if there is any "distance factor" to consider when doing this or not. You can only place 7 ammo bags on the ground. When you place the 8th one, the first one will disappear.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

This is kind of obvious but with some new folks, I've had this asked a few times lately.

The firing method (semi, burst, full auto) stays with the kit. What I mean is that, if you pick up a kit and change the firing mode, it stays with that kit regardless of who picks it up later. This has been my experience anyways.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

It appears that the FOB "houses" allow spawning based on a timer not on building status. Example, I have been building a number of FOB "houses" on WW2 lately and before I'm done, people are spawning.

Usually a dirt mound FOB takes 45 shovels / 1.5 min to build. It takes 80 seconds after that before you can spawn on it.

[Onil]

Good Afternoon,

It appears that the FOB "houses" allow spawning based on a timer not on building status. Example, I have been building a number of FOB "houses" on WW2 lately and before I'm done, people are spawning.

Usually a dirt mound FOB takes 45 shovels / 1.5 min to build. It takes 80 seconds after that before you can spawn on it.

Perhaps that's because the FOB "houses" are actually Bunkers used in PR before the FOB static existed and since you're talking about WW2 re-using them, I'm guessing that they're still using the old code which was like that.

[LiamBai]

FOBs always become spawnable at **:**:59 afaik, so it could just be coincidence.
Also with WW2 you'll generally have people spawning on a FOB the instant it's spawnable, unlike normal PR maps.