Request for Revert to 1.2 Flight Mechanics (All Vehicles and Anti Air Weapons)

[PricelineNegotiator]

Hello,

I have been talking with many veteran players in PR the last two days about the new flight mechanics and anti air changes. Every player I have talked to agrees to some degree that the changes in 1.3 are done too far in the favor of infantry. The 1.2 flight mechanics and anti air properties were some of the most balanced I have seen in PR (have been playing since ~. . I will list off a few things that I have noticed and then go into further detail of each.

Helicopters have been slowed drastically
Handheld and AA emplacements are drastically overpowered
Attack helicopters and jets have been given less flares, even with AA buffed
Respawn of air assets has been prolonged to make them less relevant.

A great example of the helicopters slowing would be the Chinook. Someone mentioned that the Chinook now goes the same speed as the Kiowa, which is ridiculous. I stopped playing for a bit when 1.0 came out, but I know that after .981, the chopper speed was reduced quite a bit. Add that to this nerf, and the helicopters are easy pickings for just about any weapon.

The biggest change is the new AA mechanics. Every time I have fired a rocket, I have killed the enemy air asset. Every time I have been shot at, I have been killed. They are too powerful and essentially make CAS now ineffective.

Even though AA has been buffed severely, a choice was made to reduce flayers on almost all air vehicles. It seems like someone hates flying or the people that fly and they are singling the assets out.

20 minute delay and respawn for CAS makes it irrelevant to the game. If you die once during a normal length round, you won't see that asset again (or it will be over shortly after it spawns). Combine this with the AA change, and it's too much of a risk to even strike targets.

To close, this game is about the combined arms aspect, not just the infantry. I am a known CAS whore, but I know that there has to be a balance and 1.2 was pretty damn close to it. To make this many changes to one of the three main aspects of the game is very dangerous, and it shows in this version.

[Anderson29]

Ah..no more getting 50 kills just doing ur own thing? :sadface:

[viirusiiseli]

20 minute delay and respawn for CAS makes it irrelevant to the game. If you die once during a normal length round, you won't see that asset again (or it will be over shortly after it spawns)..

This in my opinion is the biggest problem along with heli speed.

My suggestion: 1. Rounds need to last longer (add 100-400 tickets in every map). Idea of PR is fighting for victory through hard work. This does not happen in 45 minute rounds as is currently.

2. Helicopters need to be nearly as fast as in 0.98. Buffed AA/nerfed flare amount = helis need their speed back.

This is why 0.98 helicopter combat vs AAs was THE most balanced. Fast helis, little flares, strong AA. Perfection.

[Hulabi]

I actually quite enjoy the new flight mechanics. Huey's especially, they almost feel like the littlebird in the good old days.

[ComradeHX]

1.2 was where spamming flares == never going to get locked on by AA even if missile is already in the air, which (excluding very luck/skillfully positioned shot) let CAS be easy mode as long as people know not to hover or crash.

1.2 was when choppers' speed were not scaled according to their real life values.

1.2 was when Huey was the flying tank that flies back to base and land after taking a LAT hit.

In 1.3, people actually have to think about where to go instead of relying on unrealistic speed to get the chopper to where it should go.

20min spawn should go; bad CAS pilots SHOULD lose more tickets for his team.

AA is actually somewhat effective now; if pilots complain so much, maybe they should work with infantry to kill the AA(perhaps with some very easily-available mortars) or don't get shot at by AA in first place.

[PricelineNegotiator]

AA is actually somewhat effective now; if pilots complain so much, maybe they should work with infantry to kill the AA(perhaps with some very easily-available mortars) or don't get shot at by AA in first place.

Please reread my post seeing that AA almost never fails to kill in this build (I have not fire at air assets yet and not killed them). You don't even have to try, it does all the work for you - that's the problem.

[ComradeHX]

Please reread my post seeing that AA almost never fails to kill in this build (I have not fire at air assets yet and not killed them). You don't even have to try, it does all the work for you - that's the problem.

So you can left click without lockon and it will hit 100%?

[inb4banned]

AA has been useless for a long time, this makes it somewhat relevant again. CAS is supposed to rely on intel and work together with a team to take out enemy assets, it's not supposed to rely on flare spam to avoid any AA and have free reign over the battlefield.

CAS has been incredibly OP for a very long time, this just shifts the balance a bit.

[viirusiiseli]

1.2 was where spamming flares == never going to get locked on by AA even if missile is already in the air, which (excluding very luck/skillfully positioned shot) let CAS be easy mode as long as people know not to hover or crash.

1.2 was when choppers' speed were not scaled according to their real life values.

1.2 was when Huey was the flying tank that flies back to base and land after taking a LAT hit.

In 1.3, people actually have to think about where to go instead of relying on unrealistic speed to get the chopper to where it should go.

20min spawn should go; bad CAS pilots SHOULD lose more tickets for his team.

AA is actually somewhat effective now; if pilots complain so much, maybe they should work with infantry to kill the AA(perhaps with some very easily-available mortars) or don't get shot at by AA in first place.

1.2 huey hit by LAT would burn and nearly immediately blow up. Last patch the huey survived a LAT hit was in 0.98. Only helis in 1.2 that survived LAT was chinook, mi8, chinese big transheli and hind. I'm assuming you didn't try any of them as you didn't even know about the huey.

1.3 CAS doesn't just have to think where to go, they have to continuously stay away without doing anything for fear of losing the heli. Haven't gotten to fly jets just yet but this heli stuff is too unbalanced.

[fatalsushi83]

Maybe the current mechanics need some balancing but I'm glad its no longer possible for one or two players to dominate the entire map and rack up 50+ kills. Overpowered CAS was the opposite of what PR's whole teamwork-oriented gameplay stands for.

[fatalsushi83]

Maybe the current mechanics need some balancing but I'm glad its no longer possible for one or two players to dominate the entire map and rack up 50+ kills. Overpowered CAS was the opposite of what PR's whole teamwork-oriented gameplay stands for.

[ComradeHX]

1.2 huey hit by LAT would burn and nearly immediately blow up. Last patch the huey survived a LAT hit was in 0.98. Only helis in 1.2 that survived LAT was chinook, mi8, chinese big transheli and hind. I'm assuming you didn't try any of them as you didn't even know about the huey.

1.3 CAS doesn't just have to think where to go, they have to continuously stay away without doing anything for fear of losing the heli. Haven't gotten to fly jets just yet but this heli stuff is too unbalanced.

I've actually shot choppers plenty(a lot, before 1.3, even caught a few of them on video) of times with LAT/HAT...etc.

In 1.2(this was a month ago); Op. Barracuda CH vs. US was where it took a hit at beginning of round(I know it was a direct hit because the enemy troops it dropped off mostly died because some of them have not gotten off the chopper and got shot out of it) near the rotor area and flew away.
Other times I shoot Huey while friendlies were damaging it with small arms/hmg and it was one hit kill.

Chinook actually never ate LAT and got away for me; when I hit, it usually loses control and flip/crash.
One time in 1.2 Russian COW on Iron Ridge was flying too fast and hitreg failed; it ate a Militia Tandem RPG-7 HAT.

Never shot at hind with LAT before since I don't play easy mode as much.

I assume you rarely hit choppers with LAT because apparently you don't realize that not every LAT does same amount of damage and choppers probably have different hitzones.


Maybe consider LANDING sometime when not doing anything; you can't possibly lose chopper in main, unless you crash.

It's your decision to take risk searching for enemies; if you get shot by random AA you didn't see, that's on you.

1.3 is great in that people taking excessive risks will more likely be punished for accordingly; fits the theme of PR perfectly.



Also...all these tales of successes of AA...isn't that just because 1.3 attracted many newbie players who wanted to fly something?

[Mineral]

Way too many assumptions on one another guys Keep on topic and provide feedback and actual gameplay facts you saw with your own eyes.

[PatrickLA_CA]

I played with a couple of jets yesterday and noticed that it is not hard to evade AA if you are at the edge of their lock range but once you get closer you are dead. I also noticed that when I was chasing an enemy jet which once I locked on was dead besides the flares he deployed.

Another thing I noticed when flying the harrier is that you get a visual Locked Warning (harrier HUD) about a second or more before you actually hear the lock on sound, maybe that needs to be looked at.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be balanced, because if you went for the realistic features of CAS aircraft the Apache Mk1 should never be killed by a MANPAD and most SAMs, but as viirus said, the slowed down helicopters are way too vulnerable, especially with the lowered amount of flares.

Perhaps the helicopters should get realistic speed values as well as a slight delay for AA lock to the easy-to-kill with AA?

[WeeD-KilleR]

The 1.2 flight mechanics and anti air properties were some of the most balanced I have seen in PR

AA in 1.2 was balanced? HAHAHA, it was the most useless shit ever. Isnt it the point of AA to be effective against air? CAS should fear the area when AA is present, thats the main idea. Fuck 'press X to get invincible'. When you run armor you also stay away from the area AT is present. CAS should only be effective with a coordinated team that gathers intel to the CAS.

I am more than happy about the changes made to air/anti-air in general. No more diving on top of a AA emplacement where it cant aim on. And all the tears from the CAS whores now. Its glorious.

[Navo]

- I've fired one SA7 at a Cobra, which missed.

- I've seen one SA7 be fired at a Cobra, which missed.

- I've been engaged twice as a Cobra crewmember by a SA7, one missed, one destroyed us (we were hovering).

AA seems to be fine so far.

[Tankbuster28000]

AA in 1.2 was balanced? HAHAHA, it was the most useless shit ever. Isnt it the point of AA to be effective against air? CAS should fear the area when AA is present, thats the main idea. Fuck 'press X to get invincible'. When you run armor you also stay away from the area AT is present. CAS should only be effective with a coordinated team that gathers intel to the CAS.

I am more than happy about the changes made to air/anti-air in general. No more diving on top of a AA emplacement where it cant aim on. And all the tears from the CAS whores now. Its glorious.

Same here, TOWs of the Bradley were more useful in engaging enemy CAS than the AA

[PatrickLA_CA]

Another thing that I don't know whether it was on purpose or maybe it slipped past and I think this thread should cover it instead of making a new one is that the laser lock on ground targets has that high pitched vBF2 lock sound instead of the spoken Locked on message. If it was on purpose, it should be changed back because you can't hear anything else when it's on because it's too loud and high pitched.

[Strategos]

Being killed by CAS as an infantry soldier is one of the most frustrating experiences in PR. If it happens a few times, it's stomachable. But on 1.2 you would have rounds where one CAS side would complete dominate the game and decimate any ground forces it came across. This has become much harder now. AA actually feels like it packs a punch and you don't feel as powerless as a simple grunt anymore.

If anything, these changes to CAS encourage more teamwork and coordination between pilots and ground forces and promote targeted and meticulously planned attacks instead of flare-spam fly-bys.

[blayas]

Okay with the changes, the new respawn time of the assets is helping to make the use of these vehicles is made more cautiously and punishing those who do not work with their teams , making shoot down of an asset a real victory now.