Request for Revert to 1.2 Flight Mechanics (All Vehicles and Anti Air Weapons)

[imuhim]

I don't really have much of an opinion on CAS (It's just something that blows up my squad now and then), but I have found that flying trans is no longer as enjoyable. The lack of speed takes away a lot of the challenge and finesse in jinking, utilizing hard cover, and positioning in order to evade missiles.

Just in terms of ferrying, the lack of speed removes any of the challenge of sticking to terrain, of following a contour. I don't have to make many adjustments to go where I want to go, it plods along exactly where I want it to. There's no sense of momentum, in a dive you barely pick up any speed, it just feels static.

It massively reduces the opportunity for flying ability to play a factor when fired on by AA. Now you simply are not capable of massive changes in direction and have to rely primarily on your flares, and the now limited ability to move the aircraft.

I understand that a large part of flying trans is not the flying. It is about thinking through your route, assessing risk before you are flying and continually as you are in flight, to name a few.

It seems like there won't be as many of those moments where you shit yourself when you run into a beast, dive down and try to put anything in between yourself and that scary motherfucker. Have a split second of relief, shit yourself again when you hear the chirping of the RWR indicating an AA launch, pop flares, dart between some buildings and hear the missiles explode around you. Then limp back to base while wondering How the fuck was I able to pull that off?.

Those moments are part of what made flying in PR so special for me. The changes made in the update seem to defeat that capability.

[pedrooo14]

The problem here is that CAS usual players where used to do what ever they want, go there, go here without nobody bother them. Now you have to THINK and BE CAREFUL in the use of one of the most important assets in the game (as in real life).

[Frontliner]

Easy, because missiles hit flares（spammed all over the place） or fly into the sky despite locking onto aircraft and 12.7mm does very little damage.

You don't say?

[ComradeHX]

I don't really have much of an opinion on CAS (It's just something that blows up my squad now and then), but I have found that flying trans is no longer as enjoyable. The lack of speed takes away a lot of the challenge and finesse in jinking, utilizing hard cover, and positioning in order to evade missiles.

Just in terms of ferrying, the lack of speed removes any of the challenge of sticking to terrain, of following a contour. I don't have to make many adjustments to go where I want to go, it plods along exactly where I want it to. There's no sense of momentum, in a dive you barely pick up any speed, it just feels static.

It massively reduces the opportunity for flying ability to play a factor when fired on by AA. Now you simply are not capable of massive changes in direction and have to rely primarily on your flares, and the now limited ability to move the aircraft.

I understand that a large part of flying trans is not the flying. It is about thinking through your route, assessing risk before you are flying and continually as you are in flight, to name a few.

It seems like there won't be as many of those moments where you shit yourself when you run into a beast, dive down and try to put anything in between yourself and that scary motherfucker. Have a split second of relief, shit yourself again when you hear the chirping of the RWR indicating an AA launch, pop flares, dart between some buildings and hear the missiles explode around you. Then limp back to base while wondering How the fuck was I able to pull that off?.

Those moments are part of what made flying in PR so special for me. The changes made in the update seem to defeat that capability.

You are not supposed to fly transport chopper near AA.

You don't say?

You asked for the obvious.

[Aleon]

Can't speak for the attack helicopters, but the jets seem to be completely fine. I've played multiple rounds with CAS, and I didn't lose a single jet since 1.3 came out. I kind of like how AA is more of a threat, makes flying more fun. If anything, I'd say AA is still weak against jets, but I guess that's fair since you have to rearm often. I flown into an avenger, a stationary and a handheld AA (7 missiles fired) and managed to evade all of them in a frogfoot just fine. You can break locks with dumping lots of flares, and you can still prevent them by flaring preemtively. I say jets are really fun now.

From the ground, I didn't have much of a problem with shooting down aircraft prior to 1.3, and the fix of bugs on the handhelds is welcome. (The strela is actually exploding next to aircraft yay ^-^)

[LiamBai]

I think AA is a bit too powerful now.
I'm all for AA being good, but it's a bit ridiculous. There has not been a single time I've been locked and NOT died in a jet. Even in the A-10, with 15 flares behind me, I got 1-hit-instakilled by AA.

IMO this is broken. Fearing AA is good, being unable to do anything ever is not.


That said, AA is definitely less broken now than it was in 1.2 generally speaking.

[Spook]

Had no problems avoiding AAs with jets so far. And spent 20minutes and around 15 missiles trying to shoot down Aleons Frogfoot and DonDooms Mig yesterday, with stinger and stationary AA. Ended up finally killing the Mig after it went too low for an attack 1minute before round end. AAs against jets are fine imo.

[LiamBai]

Maybe I'm just insanely unlucky then. I've heard a few people say the same, but I've just been instakilled any time I hear the lock tone.

[MikeDude]

I thought I would give the Handheld AA a try on Muttrah (MEC). Just to see how ''OP'' it actually is at the moment.

First time, I shot a huey blank on, and it obviously exploded. (In 1.2 it would have survived that hit)
Second time, I show a huey from some distance, and it didn't fully lock on. So, the rocket went straight and exploded about 20 meters away from the huey. The huey still caught on fire and exploded.

Overall, I think the aa is sort of good. At least better then what it was in 1.2. Maybe the blast radius is a bit too high tho?

[mat552]

You are not supposed to fly transport chopper near AA.

The mere possibility of one shoulder fired SAM being present should not be enough to cripple an entire airborne company.

[X-Alt]

The mere possibility of one shoulder fired SAM being present should not be enough to cripple an entire airborne company.

^This x1000

[ComradeHX]

The mere possibility of one shoulder fired SAM being present should not be enough to cripple an entire airborne company.

You don't have an airborne company.

It's a risk vs. reward thing. You took risk by flying somewhere with possible AA or simply no intel; you got hit, that's on you.

Maybe you need more than one chopper; one AA can't kill them all.

[mat552]

It's a risk vs. reward thing. You took risk by flying somewhere with possible AA or simply no intel; you got hit, that's on you.

So merely the possibility should be enough to deny overflight in your opinion.

[ComradeHX]

So merely the possibility should be enough to deny overflight in your opinion.

Again, AA isn't 100% guaranteed to work if you flare a bit unless you fly so close that AA can hit you without locking on...at that range, RPG\HMG\autocannon\smallarms would down you just as easily.

Again, pilot needs to think about where he is flying; not go straight to the LZ. AA can't hit through solid cover and it can't hit(much of) what's out of view distance.

Think about where some cheeky ******* with AA would be to cover a lot of area but stays somewhat concealed(such as some rooftops of a city) and don't fly into it.

Maybe you don't have to drop infantry exactly where they tell you to, but pick a safe LZ instead(better for everyone); that was in the loadingscreen tips. Better to let infantry walk 300m over a hill than all of you die in the sky.

In this patch, flying choppers require more skill than avoiding crashing.

[mat552]

Again, AA isn't 100% guaranteed to work if you flare a bit unless you fly so close that AA can hit you without locking on...at that range, RPG\HMG\autocannon\smallarms would down you just as easily.

Again, pilot needs to think about where he is flying; not go straight to the LZ. AA can't hit through solid cover.

Maybe you don't have to drop infantry exactly where they tell you to, but pick a safe LZ instead(better for everyone); that was in the loadingscreen tips.

None of that answers the question I put to you. Should the possibility (nothing more, to fly into an area known to contain AA is foolish without question) of AA be enough to deter pilots in PR?

[ComradeHX]

None of that answers the question I put to you. Should the possibility (nothing more, to fly into an area known to contain AA is foolish without question) of AA be enough to deter pilots in PR?

That's up to the pilot(of varying skill level). Again, it's a risk vs. reward thing; you risk the safety of your chopper for reward of quickly getting supplies/troops to somewhere. There is always alternative, such as logi and transport trucks, or boats; they don't cost much points and do not need a dedicated squad to use them. They also have risk(could be killed on the way by one guy with a machinegun, for example).

I don't have to answer a loaded question.

My opinion is that there should be a consequence to flying into AA.

[mat552]

That's up to the pilot. Again, it's a risk vs. reward thing; you risk the safety of your chopper for reward of quickly getting supplies/troops to somewhere.

My opinion is that there should be a consequence to flying into AA.

We still haven't gotten there yet. I'm not asking any random pilot, I'm also not asking about what should happen to someone who deliberately flies down the throat of a Tunguska in a Huey.

What I want from you is to know if you think that the possibility of AA in a given area means the pilot shouldn't fly there. It's a yes or no question.

If you'd like to continue to be evasive then simply stop replying.

[ComradeHX]

We still haven't gotten there yet. I'm not asking any random pilot, I'm also not asking about what should happen to someone who deliberately flies down the throat of a Tunguska in a Huey.

What I want from you is to know if you think that the possibility of AA in a given area means the pilot shouldn't fly there. It's a yes or no question.

If you'd like to continue to be evasive then simply stop replying.

Again, I don't have to answer loaded question.

I have already clarified what my opinion is； I won't let you force an opinion on me.

You are also trying to brush off all the comment on risk vs. reward by insisting it was about idiots flying into AA on purpose.
Of course you are not asking about idiots flying into AA on purpose.
But you FAILED to realize that I wasn't posting about those idiots either.

You haven't gotten there because your understanding of this "discussion" lagged behind.

[mat552]

Risk and reward interplay require a balance between risk and reward. Recent changes have tipped the scales in favor of risk by a pretty hefty margin. You can't trumpet a risk/reward relationship if the only risk is to the target.

If you're going to shout at me in all caps about what I don't realize, at least keep in mind what you're projecting. Reading your posts here is where I got the impression that you think all pilots are gibbering morons for whom "AA" means "Land Here", cackling about their immunity to all incoming fire in 1.2. (Anecdotes in particular)

It was a mistake to buff AA and nerf aviation in the same patch.

[Cavazos]

AA has been useless for a long time, this makes it somewhat relevant again. CAS is supposed to rely on intel and work together with a team to take out enemy assets, it's not supposed to rely on flare spam to avoid any AA and have free reign over the battlefield.

CAS has been incredibly OP for a very long time, this just shifts the balance a bit.

I agree.

Also what someone said earlier, the AA has been useless for a long time now. I play strictly infantry and lead a lot of infantry squads, and I can't even remember one time taking out air. I think once AA made a hit on an air vehicle. That is it.