CIVIES and Martyrs

[mat552]

Ok, the building of a FOB, SPG, or roadblock by CIVIes will result in a martyrdom if no friendly guns are around. Trickery and diversionary tactics are part of reality in the military world. So, in my opinion, saying that this is an exploit is going a bit too far.

Wow, so an 80mm mortar or 73mm recoiless rifle don't count as "friendly guns"? Even though there are shells visible in the emplacement? I think you'd be hard pressed to find any basis in reality. Trickery sure, hiding the mortar under a donkey drawn cart. If a UAV or Mast Mounted Sensor peeks you digging up a mortar in or pointing a tripod at an area where active attacks against bluefor are taking place, you are not going to get the benefit of the doubt. I'd expect your opponent to be even less forgiving if they are looking at somebody in the process of setting up a rocket launcher looking device at them through the sights of an IFV or MBT.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

Well, I guess this is one where we will have to agree that we disagree.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

OMG OMG

Beautiful round on Basrah tonight. My squad played like they were building a FOB and a SPG in H7 on Basrah. Well, after getting martyred there, we moved to I6 and did the same thing. Well, there was a Warrior up the pipeline looking at us. An RPG smurf came up and he was 5+m away from us. Well we started building the FOB and SPG. The Warrior thought we were firing RPG's at him from the SPG emplacement and martyred my squad executing the gunner. Well, after this they got to ignoring us. That wasn't a good thing as I finished the round killing 3 pieces of armor since they ignored us building. It was beautiful.

[Strategos]

Good Evening,

OMG OMG

Beautiful round on Basrah tonight. My squad played like they were building a FOB and a SPG in H7 on Basrah. Well, after getting martyred there, we moved to I6 and did the same thing. Well, there was a Warrior up the pipeline looking at us. An RPG smurf came up and he was 5+m away from us. Well we started building the FOB and SPG. The Warrior thought we were firing RPG's at him from the SPG emplacement and martyred my squad executing the gunner. Well, after this they got to ignoring us. That wasn't a good thing as I finished the round killing 3 pieces of armor since they ignored us building. It was beautiful.

Hahaha, I was that smurf. I love how he targeted you guys straight away . I got out of there without a single scratch. Felt like this video:

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

Went back through the guide and have updated information. Review at your convenience.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

OMG OMG OMG!!!!! I laughed so hard. Ok, you guys that know me or have been around me, you know I'm subject to outbursts of uncontrolled laughter. Take a peek at this on HOG Gaza Skirmish - (thank you BlackGus)



Still haven't figured out how to get the videos to show a thumbnail so here's the link just in case the above doesn't work for you: https://youtu.be/5bvPsQePdX0

[Fir3w411]

Did you get a screenshot of the enemy scoreboard? The TK combined with the civi deaths must have been a good sight on the scoreboard.

P.S. You have to click the Youtube button in the advanced editor. Then get the bit after youtube.com (i.e. youtube.com/xxxxxxxxxxx <- removing youtube.com/) and paste it in between the two Youtube tags.

[fatalsushi83]

Swampfox, you and your horde of trolls. Still, that video was hilarious, I'll admit.

[Jacksonez__]

10/10 would Civi again
-IGN

LOL

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

UPDATE!!

You can be arrested while in an enemy mounted MG. Example, on Al Basrah, you can be in the MG’s that are in the VCP and still be arrested.
If you are going to do bait and switch, empty all your epipens before leaving your “base” so that if you do kill someone they cannot revive. (squarerootpie)

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

It appears that there is an urban legend going around regarding deploying assets and martyrdom. Please note that in the guide I clearly state that while your deploying, you cannot martyr if you are killed in the act so to speak. Deploying assets also does not reset your timer. There are only two things that reset your timer and that is, changing kits or entering/exiting assets.

On another note, I have yet to fully confirm this but it appears that if you die of your own doing without being wounded, it may be treated as suicide which gives the enemy +10 intel. I don't have a way to really confirm this nor do I know if it is timer related. Please provide any feedback when possible.

[Psyrus]

On another note, I have yet to fully confirm this but it appears that if you die of your own doing without being wounded, it may be treated as suicide which gives the enemy +10 intel. I don't have a way to really confirm this nor do I know if it is timer related. Please provide any feedback when possible.

That would be correct (like jumping off a building etc)

[RAWSwampFox]

That would be correct (like jumping off a building etc)

Good Evening,

Well as per my understanding of the 1.2.1 patch, jumping off of buildings were supposed to nullify martyrdom. I found this to be incorrect. I've been able to continue martyrdom by being wounded (bleeding) and jumping off of buildings, high or low.

Now, I just tested my original post on Al Basrah this evening and it appears just jumping off of buildings, wounded or not, after timer was up did not reveal the next cache.

If this above is altered to "fix" the issue, all I can see are trolls using this to end an insurgency round very very fast. So, if the issue is "fixed", would you please increase the intel points needed for each cache back up to 150?

[Psyrus]

Well as per my understanding of the 1.2.1 patch, jumping off of buildings were supposed to nullify martyrdom. I found this to be incorrect. I've been able to continue martyrdom by being wounded (bleeding) and jumping off of buildings, high or low.

Now, I just tested my original post on Al Basrah this evening and it appears just jumping off of buildings, wounded or not, after timer was up did not reveal the next cache.

Well checking the code, it is a registered handler that suicides by "civilians" results in the capture intel being sent to the other team. Whether a bug is preventing that code from firing off appropriately, I do not know. The intel system has seemed reasonably balanced to me when I am playing as an insurgent as of 1.3, although I wish the martyr timer was 60 seconds... 2 minutes is an eternity. I usually just find a corner and alt-tab

[3ti65]

The civi system is so horribly broken that it hurts. You shoot a guy with a weapon, he is injured, drops his kit and bleeds out in more than 2 mins. GG, you just shot a civilian.

Insurgency is no fun ever since 1.2 for that also being one of the reasons.

[Psyrus]

The civi system is so horribly broken that it hurts. You shoot a guy with a weapon, he is injured, drops his kit and bleeds out in more than 2 mins. GG, you just shot a civilian.

Insurgency is no fun ever since 1.2 for that also being one of the reasons.

It is ironic that you single out 1.2 as not being fun due to the drop-kit exploit, as that was the version where we had just implemented code that prevents people from martyring if they drop their kit after being injured (bleeding)

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

Well, me and Koolio were talking over coffee this morning and we both agreed, Insurgency in and of itself isn't broken in a general sense. In a more technical splitting the hairs definition, yes, it is. The basic problem with Insurgency for both Blufor and Opfor is that everyone runs around like COD players instead of putting together a plan and working as a team.

Insurgents think they have unlimited tickets and Blufor think that they are the king with all their assets so they don't pay much attention to their tickets as well.

I think that one thing, and mainly only one thing, will drastically change the way Insurgency is viewed and played is a visual method of monitoring intel points. I don't know if it is even possible but I think it would be a great thing. Something as simple as a timed message or an event triggered message would go a long way to improving teamwork for both sides.

[mat552]

Insurgents think they have unlimited tickets because they do. They don't make plans because they don't need to, they win just fine (eg the majority of rounds, according to the ask a dev thread) behaving as 50 individual squads. The whole insurgent faction is deliberately structured to make teamwork difficult and unnecessary. Kits just lay on the ground in main, their deployables aren't great (notable exception, the abusable roadblock which lets the insurgents build floating sky castles), the informant system is flat out not useful compared to a UAV, and they have a kit whose sole purpose is to grief.

[UTurista]

Honestly I don't get the "civilians is a griefer kit" idea. Just like any other kit, the civilian kit as a specific role, with the difference that this role is to be killed and not kill.
Furthermore, just like Tanks and APCs play submarine warfare, trying to locate the enemy counterpart, or CAS just flies high and dives on its targets, civilians have their own "tactics".

I admit their certain aspects of civilians that annoy me, but using a squad of civilians hiding behind corners/windows to be murdered by a single APC shell and therefor "arrest" the gunner is, for me, a good thing, it evolved teamwork doing that.

Regarding showing intel, there are only 2 ways currently available: messages or a icon that changes w/ time. The first one is a bit spammy imo, but honestly I don't see a reason for it, insurgents already have a window where they know the cache will be revealed, at most this could be changed but I really don't see a point in revealing the intel points.

[Jacksonez__]

2 min timer, big radius to armed insurgent just make playing civi absolutely pain in rectal area. We won insurgency in Falluja today, both caches revealed all the time and lost only one cache eventually. We had literally no civis running around because nobody felt like doing that boring shit duty. We had a lot of pressure on both caches and kept blufor away. Civis are not fun or useful anymore. I liked the Insurgency 2.0 civi system. Smaller radius (3m?) and 1 min timer.

I admit it is a satisfactory moment if an APC runs over you if you are civi (or kills 5+ civis at once, lel) Buuut not really worth it. It's really boring unless you have Netflix on your other monitor.