Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
Web_cole
Posts: 1324
Joined: 2010-03-07 09:51

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Web_cole »

Snaiper wrote:Not having a mic =/= not having a gun and brain.

TL;DR:
Having a mic is better than not having one. But, please, don't just ditch people simply because they don't have one, leaving squad half empty. Anyone with a weapon who follows orders is useful, very useful. Squad chat still exists and you should use it and read it.
This is simply not the case. If you don't have a mic, you are a liability. You cannot communicate effectively, you cannot call your targets, you cannot explain to your SL why you can't follow an order, you can't ask for ammo, you definitely cannot ask for a medic. Yes you can type, but it takes 10 times longer to communicate anything effectively, and importantly, you can't do anything else while typing. With a mic, you can shoot and talk at the same time. You cannot send text chat whilst dead (your living teammates won't see it) therefore you cannot ask for a revive and guide a medic to you.

You are a giant and unnecessary handicap that the rest of your squad has to overcome.
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Snaiper
Posts: 32
Joined: 2015-07-30 08:34

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Snaiper »

Web_cole wrote:This is simply not the case. If you don't have a mic, you are a liability. You cannot communicate effectively, you cannot call your targets, you cannot explain to your SL why you can't follow an order, you can't ask for ammo, you definitely cannot ask for a medic. Yes you can type, but it takes 10 times longer to communicate anything effectively, and importantly, you can't do anything else while typing. With a mic, you can shoot and talk at the same time. You cannot send text chat whilst dead (your living teammates won't see it) therefore you cannot ask for a revive and guide a medic to you.

You are a giant and unnecessary handicap that the rest of your squad has to overcome.
That's why your 4-man squad gets annihilated, doesn't it?

Chat exists for a reason. And is quite easy to use. Tried it?


You either haven't played PR enough or are extremely ignorant of the situation. When you call for medic through voice, the medic cannot effectively find your body, especially if you're amongst many bodies. This is why you can call medic by right clicking the "GIVE UP" button and it shows him exactly where you are on the map, especially if you are out of local voice area. Tried that?

And, it doesn't take ten times longer. Not even two times longer. If you're typing that slow, then I can doubt you can do anything else effectively. Never heard or seen anyone try to shoot and talk at the same time, because it's simply a waste of bullets. Thanks that to the fact that there is no option for auto-activation on speech recognition. So you have to hold a button the entire time you are trying to talk whilst trying to properly suppress or take out a target and not get shot.

And again, you haven't heard of the right click the give up button? Instead of having to guide a medic through a maze and waste time, everyone's ears and voice channel, you can simply right click the button that states "GIVE UP / CALL MEDIC" and boom, medic sees exactly where you are by simply pressing caps lock once. Amazing, isn't it?

I refused to used mic a handful of times, to prove to myself if I were right or wrong about it, I was also in a squad where half of it didn't have mic, but they followed orders. And yet, despite all that, somehow, we were the top squad in our team and managed to capture points, hold points and win the round alongside our team.

What I'm saying is basic logic. Just because you cannot speak, doesn't mean you cannot do anything else. The fact that you constantly have to hold a button whilst speaking and trying to do whatever else makes it far less efficient.

And, yet, you said "that is simply not true" and failed to disprove any of my claims:

Can a person not have mic and have a brain? Yes, a person can.
Can a person not have mic and have a gun? Yes, a person can.
Is having mic better than not having one? Yes, it is.
Can a person without a mic follow orders? Yes, a person can.
Can a person without a mic suppress, kill and operate with its kit? Yes, a person can.
Is 4/8 with mic better than 8/8 where only 4 have mic? No, it isn't, because above stands true.

You know, we should just start banning people who cannot use mic from the game. Yeah, because they're just a liability. And we can't afford that! They're ruining the game by not speaking using mic! Whoops, there goes the player base!

Damn, your definition of liability is liberal.

I doubt there's any point in further discussing this with you since you've proven yourself ignorant from the beginning. You said "you cannot communicate effectively" and then you went to put examples of that as arguments, when the only argument is "you cannot communicate effectively".

My mic is broken. But I am a great marksman that can take out an entire squad without wasting a bullet. But, I cannot hold H or numpad 0 entire time whilst speaking, so I have to press a button and type it in chat, therefore I am a handicap and should be kicked. Let that example be there for you.
_Fizzco_
Posts: 266
Joined: 2009-06-17 12:51

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by _Fizzco_ »

Snaiper wrote:=Snip=
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Steeps
Posts: 1994
Joined: 2011-08-15 15:58

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Steeps »

Snaiper wrote:

You either haven't played PR enough or are extremely ignorant of the situation.
I stopped reading when I saw this sentence, that's how bad your post is. You say that with an account created 1 month ago? Please troll somewhere else.
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Psyko
Posts: 4466
Joined: 2008-01-03 13:34

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Psyko »

Ghost1800 wrote:I was gonna say, this has been a problem since... well... the dawn of civilization. personal hygiene is an incredibly complex and difficult social skill that has to be developed over time, and it will stagnate in different body parts differently (to include, not at all). I myself am a horrendous leader, and even then only an mediocre at best follower. By nature I have a tendency to rambo like a noob and I will even "be off in la-la-land inconsiderately ignoring orders", good or bad, to suit what I think is the best course of action. But I am not going to take my medication or admit i'm being dumb as a brick. If I can't do a better job I'm not going to bring it to everyone's attention and then run off with the sniper kit having started an argument in squad chat.
fixed a few things

5X5, readback correct, Ghost is a noob.
Finrar
Posts: 174
Joined: 2010-11-24 16:03

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Finrar »

5/5 rant would read again

But yeah im really happy, that most servers enforce using mics. Nothing is more frustrating, than trying to lead a guy without a mic. It just wont work. Never :D
Last edited by Finrar on 2015-08-04 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
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mintyflinty
Posts: 25
Joined: 2007-04-28 11:35

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by mintyflinty »

Do you watch TV with no audio?

I have a couple of times, it's real ****.
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ComedyInK
Posts: 225
Joined: 2011-03-16 16:33

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by ComedyInK »

Snaiper wrote:



You either haven't played PR enough or are extremely ignorant of the situation. When you call for medic through voice, the medic cannot effectively find your body, especially if you're amongst many bodies. This is why you can call medic by right clicking the "GIVE UP" button and it shows him exactly where you are on the map, especially if you are out of local voice area. Tried that?



And again, you haven't heard of the right click the give up button? Instead of having to guide a medic through a maze and waste time, everyone's ears and voice channel, you can simply right click the button that states "GIVE UP / CALL MEDIC" and boom, medic sees exactly where you are by simply pressing caps lock once. Amazing, isn't it?
That's cool and all, but did you know that only works twice? Did you also know what you can rebind you Local and Squad keys to something more convenient? Did you also you can you open up your map, tell the medic where you are via voip and then talk in local for him to come to you?

get better, buy a mic.
PolishKruk
Posts: 61
Joined: 2015-07-11 06:27

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by PolishKruk »

Whoa, easy guys. No need to get so worked up over this. Micless guys do make it more difficult but it just requires you to change your leadership style. You have to micro that guy a little more so everyone knows his role but thats about it. Besides, a guy w/o a mic is so much easier to deal with than the idiot that doesn't know how to shutup and is constantly squalking on squad chat about random bullshit.

Also, in my opinion, your job as an SL is not to dictate peoples fun, our job as squad leaders is to enhance the fun of this game. That guy without a mic has just as much right to enjoy this game as that fourteen year old that won't shutup.

I haven't led a squad in a few days mainly because I wanted to take a break and learn a little more from other SLs. Also, I hate being an SL on a map I have never played before. Great discussion guys. Keep it up but keep it friendly.
Everybody fights, no one quits. If you don't do your job I'll kill you myself.
Cossack
Posts: 1689
Joined: 2009-06-17 09:25

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Cossack »

Wing Walker wrote:Everything you said is completely wrong.

If your usefulness is incapacitated so much just because you have to work with a player who can't use a mic, you should just not Squad lead at all.

I have never experienced such epic tragedy, and trauma, just because I had people in my squad that could not talk.
So I guess you are really successful at leading and have competitive PR experience?

And you tell this guy to cover a corner and tell if enemies are coming? Oh wait, he does not have mic, he has to TYPE, and while he is typing, he is probably dead. And while dead, he sends his message, but oh wait again - you cant see it because you are not dead.

TL;DR

Get mic if want and have full PR experience, else just waste of time for everyone else.
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3ti65
Posts: 242
Joined: 2011-02-10 15:11

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by 3ti65 »

Trying to talk sense to the deaf.


/ But i still prefer a guy without mic over a guy that talks unnecessary bullshit.

// That band of brothers fail leader is how i see bluedrake lol
Web_cole
Posts: 1324
Joined: 2010-03-07 09:51

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Web_cole »

Snaiper wrote:You either haven't played PR enough or are extremely ignorant of the situation.
You are being both combative and deliberately dishonest, but hey if you want to turn this into a **** measuring contest be my guest ;)


Wing Walker wrote:Everything you said is completely wrong.

If your usefulness is incapacitated so much just because you have to work with a player who can't use a mic, you should just not Squad lead at all.

I have never experienced such epic tragedy, and trauma, just because I had people in my squad that could not talk.
liability
lʌɪəˈbɪlɪti/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being legally responsible for something.
"once you contact the card protection scheme your liability for any loss ends"
synonyms: accountability, responsibility, legal responsibility, answerability; More
2.
a person or thing whose presence or behaviour is likely to put one at a disadvantage.
"she said the party had become a liability to green politics"
synonyms: hindrance, encumbrance, burden, handicap, nuisance, inconvenience;
Nope, I meant exactly what I said. Micless players, irrespective of any other traits or skills, are less effective than players with mics. By an order of magnitude. Communication is everything in this game, if you cannot communicate in an effective and timely manner you are going to get people killed, you are going to slow down the squad, you are a liability.

Now, saying that, the one exception I personally was willing to make was for new players after the standalone patch, because you have to ease people into these things. But that time has passed, and we need to start converting the micless if we are going to make true PR players out of them. :p
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Frontliner
PR:BF2 Contributor
Posts: 1884
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Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Frontliner »

Snaiper, I rate your troll with a solid 8/10, good job.
VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them

]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy

Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill

Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.

AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?

Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
L4gi
Posts: 2101
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Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by L4gi »

Wing Walker 5/10 not as good as Snaiper.
Nate.
Forum Moderator
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Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by Nate. »

Okay here's a how it goes with micless players, just for you Wing Walker:

Player without mic can not communicate with the rest of the squad when he is down or dead. The chat can not be read by them. This means anytime this happens, the rest of the squad is left in void about his status, where he died, what killed him, if he is revivable, all sorts of things. He can not say if a kit he was assigned can't be taken by him for whatever reasons, how much time is left on his spawn timer, footsteps he is hearing and 100 other things.

Also he can't call out for friendly medics on local (I personally only revive people that answer me locally, not bothering to waste epipens on potentially dead-dead players).

When he is alive, he can't give precise and accurate information on anything within reasonable time without limiting his own combat effectiveness. In combat itself, when it is most needed, that is also impossible.

He can't revive people in a good manner, because he can't tell them where to go after the revive if it's not safe, he can't communicate with the rest of the team around him and he sure as hell is unable to crew a vehicle with a gunner or driver.

In essence:
Micless players, irrespective of any other traits or skills, are less effective than players with mics. By an order of magnitude. Communication is everything in this game, if you cannot communicate in an effective and timely manner you are going to get people killed, you are going to slow down the squad, you are a liability.
If you are defeated so easily just because a player can't talk over a mic to you in English then You are more of a problem to the PR population than any new guy or anyone with no Mic.
If you play PR on a high level, this is what happens. Nobody has a problem with the occasional new guy that doesn't get his mic fixed, but any good server will have them removed from the server. But not for competitive play, not constantly and certainly not because not having a mic is no problem and just as good as a person having one.
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RAWSwampFox
Posts: 531
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Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by RAWSwampFox »

Wing Walker wrote:The PR experience is not based on COD run and gun kill scores.
Good Afternoon,

Well, it is sad to say that some folks still think that just because they are #1 on the scoreboard that they are the best. I had one player just the other day on Khamisaiyah(?) that was manning an AA emplacement that my squad was using at the Chem Weapons plant to defend. I told him to get out (yes, I didn't use "good manners") so one of my squad could get into it. He refused and I mentioned something like, I could kill you so he jumps out and says that he could too and proceeds to shoot me. Of course at the end of the round, he jumped up and down about me saying what I said. He also pointed out that he was #1 on the scoreboard.

I have found that most of these #1 scoreboard players are rambo/lonewolves and do not play with their squad like the guy above. The scoreboard provides basic information on the enemy. I use loose math to determine the ticket status of the enemy. A good player will score just a bit higher than his squad but his squad will be very very close to him in score. When you see a "top squad" with one player's score totally inflated, as a rule of thumb you know that that guy is a rambo/lonewolf player who is not a "team" player.

It still amazes me after all these years how many players still play PR like Halo, Quake, DukeNukem 3D, Delta Force, Call of Duty, among others.
-SwampFox
CIVI guide: https://goo.gl/WhRE7A
CIVIES and Martyrs thread: http://goo.gl/eqZ3wn
My FOB guide: https://goo.gl/z8bk2z
FOB Thread: http://goo.gl/4PWRAs
PR Statistics & Useless Information thread: http://goo.gl/bzu4qd
CR8Z
Posts: 413
Joined: 2008-08-30 06:27

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by CR8Z »

Moral of the story: Please don't chase off new players. We want this community to continue to grow so we can keep the game going. Just be cool.
gwa1hir
Posts: 227
Joined: 2015-04-17 20:12

Re: Dear veterans, quitchyerbitchun about newb SLs

Post by gwa1hir »

L4gi wrote:Wing Walker 5/10 not as good as Snaiper.
those ratings are pretty unfair since snaipers name alone gives him already 3/10 points
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MAG8dcg.jpg[/img]
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