Improve AT again

[Frontliner]

I don't want to go into a long winded discussion about Armour penetration values and stuff like that when talking about gameplay. You hit a Tank on rear armour and it dies, or it doesn't - just make it consistent - and the availability of HATs needs to reflect what you've decided on, to kill or to not kill. I'm wondering as to why you've set up the damage values in such a manner since there is no skill involved in dice rolling.

[Nate.]

Guess the RPG-7 Warheads! - Project Reality Forums

[Rhino]

I'm wondering as to why you've set up the damage values in such a manner since there is no skill involved in dice rolling.

I'm sorry but damage is all based on what projectile you use, and where you hit the vehicle. There is no randomness to our damage system in BF2, other than deviation which can lead to you hitting a part of the vehicle you didn't intend to, or missing it totally

But impact damage rates in BF2 is something you can calculate very accurately just though looking at the code, other than explosion damage which is a little more complex since that varies depending on how far away the target is from the explosion, and explosion damage doesn't don't do much to armoured vehicles.


And as I've said before, we are looking at changing our AT and armour setup somewhat over the next few releases, as per that blog Nate linked above too


EDIT: also this might help with each colour being a different material on the tank:

T-62:





ZTZ-99:





CR2:

[K4on]

thanks for the effort explaining all this so detailed rhino, much appreciated!

[Frontliner]

I'm sorry but damage is all based on what projectile you use, and where you hit the vehicle. There is no randomness to our damage system in BF2, other than deviation which can lead to you hitting a part of the vehicle you didn't intend to, or missing it totally

While the damage itself might not be random, putting the MBT's HP so low over the critical threshold that terrain damage or random autocannon damage can bring it down below said threshold is a bit strange to me. Maybe I'm reading to much into that statement of yours idk.

[Rhino]

While the damage itself might not be random, putting the MBT's HP so low over the critical threshold that terrain damage or random autocannon damage can bring it down below said threshold is a bit strange to me. Maybe I'm reading to much into that statement of yours idk.

I think your not quite understanding what I'm saying. My point was that ingame, tanks rarely go into an engagement with full 100% HP due to the fact that terrain damage, something that we can't really stop and is also somewhat realistic, will knock off a bit of your HP % which in some cases can make the difference between you being in critical damage after being hit, or not.

Critical damage is at 10% HP for land vehicles as K4on said so if you took 5% HP Damage before an engagement from the terrain or w/e, then got hit by an AT Missile which took off 85% of your HP, that would mean you would only have 10% HP left and would be in critical damage.

This is probably why damage feels "random" sometimes because you can't see what level your HP is at, nor can the person firing at you, other than if your smoking or not. And if a tank received a L-AT hit before receiving a H-AT hit, can make the difference between it blowing up instantly, or not even being in critical damage.

[Hurricane]

I see what you're getting at but imo a rear hit from a HAT should destroy the tank or make it burn down in 100% of engagements.
HAT is one of the (if not THE) most valuable kit(s) of any team and therefor rightfully very limited, maneuvering into a good position to actually get a shot at rear armor of MBTs should be rewarded with a definitive success.
If I go armor hunting in this game I don't do it to get lots of kills or even cost the enemy many tickets (which of course is a very welcome side effect when destroying enemy armor), you can rack up kills more easily with an AR for example; no, my main goal is to limit the enemies operational capabilities.
A destroyed enemy tank means greater freedom of movement for many friendly vehicles as well as logistics and infantry. 14 tickets for a destroyed tank and dead crew pales in comparison to that when it comes to the outcome of any round, and that's not even counting in the tickets my team could have lost if that tank engaged them later on.

[viirusiiseli]

This is probably why damage feels "random" sometimes because you can't see what level your HP is at

That and this.

[Acecombatzer0]

That is probably lag

[SkyEmperor]

So, the M1A1 has Chobham armor but get 2 shot by a t72. While the t72 has just a strong basic armor and needs 10 shots to be destroyed. Wtf?

[viirusiiseli]

That is probably lag

I can see 3-5 shots being ping related. The rest is just... something else.

[3ti65]

Alright so the T62 just has front armor all around and thats why a hit on the rear turret only makes it grey smoke instead of a at least burning like other tanks. Thanks for pointing out Rhino. Ill guess i have to aim at the very rear instead.

Is it true that the shot has sometimes no damage if you shoot while still driving? For example the scorpion on muttrah. Someone said it. Anyone else had this experience?

[K4on]

While the t72 has just a strong basic armor and needs 10 shots to be destroyed. Wtf?

No, that's an issue which we weren't able to fix yet. It occurs sometimes, and we don't know why it does, as the T-72 seems to be set up correctly.

We came across that issue once BTW (with 3 players on the server / no lag), shooting a T-72 with AP rounds. For some reason it took no dmg at all. 3 other T-72s, shot at the same spot, from same angle and same distance, worked as supposed.

If you encounter any other vehicle with the exact same issue, please let us know!

[3ti65]

Gotta love them Heisenbugs

[Jacksonez__]

Oh yeah. That happened for me on Hades once. We saw T-90 first, my gunner said he hit it 4 times (I saw he hit 3 in weak spots, side, tracks, side, front), still the T-90 was able to turn and one-hit our Leo. He survived and we didn't

:d

[viirusiiseli]

Is it true that the shot has sometimes no damage if you shoot while still driving? For example the scorpion on muttrah. Someone said it. Anyone else had this experience?

You have to take lead so that the round on your screen doesn't even hit. A hit on your end is not necessarily a hit in-game due to ping and bf2 hitreg. When moving and shooting always take a bit more lead than what the effects would make you take. This needs to be done with everything that's not guided like ATGMs.

E.g. in this video the gunner's hitting the truck on his screen but actually not landing hits on it because the heli's moving and he's not adjusting for it. He would've had to shoot more to the left.

Example

[PolishKruk]

I posted this video in another thread and I'm gonna keep posting it again. It's not hard. Tank was full health before first shot hit.

Video

Alas, a tank operating on the front lines without infantry support. I've only been here a little over a month and it just seems this is the way things are done. Very sad. Not to mention the fact that this is an urban environment and tanks need infantry to survive in close quarters. Props to you guys for taking it out by taking advantage of a completely uncoordinated team, their loss.

[SkyEmperor]

Well, even with infantry support, small squads have a low signature and can easily flank enemies without getting spotted

[PolishKruk]

Very true but even a four man team can cover corners and keep the tank from getting ambushed like that.

[viirusiiseli]

Very true but even a four man team can cover corners and keep the tank from getting ambushed like that.

If only infantry was able to stop armor from being hit with AT... I encourage you to try using armor near friendlies in this game. You will quite soon realize infantry is a terrible help for you. What helps more is staying in the open grounds.