Broken Turret Stab\Accel

[Rabbit]

The speed isn't the problem, it's the acceleration. I'm totally fine with not being able to spin 360 in an instant, but the current system feels like you're constantly fighting the turret's movements to get it on target. The controls feel less like moving the turret and more like gently suggesting which way it should move.

So acceleration and sliding of the turret when you mean to stop are the issues?

[Ason]

I like the new system, of course it needs some tweaks here and there but generally I think it's better.
It feels much heavier and realistic, basically it went from BF4/Cod to PR standards.
Yes it's not the same as before, but I think it will just takes some time and practice to get a hang of.

Reading some of these comments I get the feeling some people learn to use an asset and become very good at it, they then become very angry when something changes on it which means they will have to go into "practice mode" again... It's like you want the evolution of a specific aspect of PR to stop, simply because you have become very skilled at it the way it works at the moment...

[matty1053]

I both Dislike and Like the new turret system. It CERTAINLY is more realistic and makes armor vs armor more balanced now.

But the bad thing is... fighting the acceleration.

If my driver yells: "TANK ON OUR LEFT, 400 METERS, NOT LOOKING AT US YET"... I will HAVE to turn the turret as quickly as possible. Yet, it will over accelerate my target and it could risk me and my tank being murdered.

Again, I'm mixed on this. I haven't tried out online yet in 1.3.5, so I can't "officially" say how it will perform vs other human armor teams. (Tried out in a local server, as I usually do to test out the new shiz).

But seriously, this makes everyone have to learn how to really reuse the system. Which I'm glad. A few tweaks will do, but I think it is nearly good as is. However... maybe Modern Tanks like the Abrams should have less acceleration and more precise movement. T90, Abrams, Challenger, Merkava, Leopard, ect should have more "percise" movement to the turrent... instead of it overtargeting.

I've became used to the system already though, just hop on a local or even a coop server and practice.

Practice makes perfect!

[Chefmoto1]

I mean I kinda get why you made changes, it was arcadey before. But as others have said, the acceleration/smoothing whatever, just makes it where you're constantly overcorrecting and it's way too difficult to make precise shots. An Abrams is more than capable of getting on target and making a precise shot within 30 seconds and right now that is very difficult. It almost feels like the turret is lagging.

[kinglespringles]

I like the new system, of course it needs some tweaks here and there but generally I think it's better.
It feels much heavier and realistic, basically it went from BF4/Cod to PR standards.
Yes it's not the same as before, but I think it will just takes some time and practice to get a hang of.

Reading some of these comments I get the feeling some people learn to use an asset and become very good at it, they then become very angry when something changes on it which means they will have to go into "practice mode" again... It's like you want the evolution of a specific aspect of PR to stop, simply because you have become very skilled at it the way it works at the moment...

I always believed PR's armored aspect was already unique as is. The tweaks to make vehicles more realistic such as slower turret speed and new recoil mechanics are something that can adapted to like you said.

But with the absurd acceleration on the turrets, even on the more modern assets it's not realistic at all. I'm also not sure why they would need to feel "heavier" either. The sounds alone do it better then any other game out there.

Is having the driver aim for the gunner one of the new tactics you'd like to see?

edit: Also going to point out this discourages armor from even sticking with infantry or taking point in an assault. If I bother to play as armor again my own tactics will be pure fog/shadow sniping and sitting back 24/7. My gunner will not be able to acquire dangerous emplacements in time nor any threat considered "easy to kill" close up. (ie: car bombs coming from the front or AT infantry peeking in front too.)

[M42 Zwilling]

I wasn't the one who coded this change, but I think a couple things need to be pointed out here. The only known ways to get turn rate limitations to actually work are to a) make them WASD-controlled or b) enable a setting called RememberExcessInput, which does just what you'd think (why does this setting make it work? ask DICE ). The floaty-ness is a byproduct of RememberExcessInput for obvious reasons. It may be possible to reduce it a little more by playing with the acceleration settings, I don't know.

Note too that turrets in FH2 have been set up in this way for years. They're just as (if not more) floaty, but its community has been able to adjust fine as far as I know.

[matty1053]

One more thing to add, it makes me feel the tank is strong and tough. It has a heavy barrel to unload on the foes and friends.

[kinglespringles]

I wasn't the one who coded this change, but I think a couple things need to be pointed out here. The only known ways to get turn rate limitations to actually work are to a) make them WASD-controlled or b) enable a setting called RememberExcessInput, which does just what you'd think (why does this setting make it work? ask DICE ). The floaty-ness is a byproduct of RememberExcessInput for obvious reasons. It may be possible to reduce it a little more by playing with the acceleration settings, I don't know.

Note too that turrets in FH2 have been set up in this way for years. They're just as (if not more) floaty, but its community has been able to adjust fine as far as I know.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that purely WW2?

I could see turret traverse speed being reduced to more "realistic" levels (older tanks and all), but on the more modern tanks/assets the smoothing makes them feel like they're broken, literally. For balance issues I'm personally fine with slower traversing. Jet sniping and CAS sniping though fun to do- should never happen unless they're hovering, etc.

I believe if the goal is to make them more realistic- remove the mouse aiming completely. Buttons or joystick only with proper traverse speeds according to it's real life counterpart. Maybe utilize both WASD and arrow keys, WASD for fast traversing and arrow keys for a slow traverse intended for aiming.

Though that's easier said then done- that would be something that would make pr truly unique if you want to expand past the "BF4/COD" identity.

But the dubbed "slip n slide" "feature" is not anything close to realistic. We all know turrets don't do that intentionally. It's a very bad artificial hindrance for gunners, and extremely annoying trying to acquire a target you should rightfully be able to kill; but can't without major scraping on the mouse pad. It's just not fun, and it gives me flashbacks to Ubisoft games.

[Chefmoto1]

It's distinctinctly unfun. Don't think this adds to the gameplay in any way.

[Menuen]

Guys let's just try to play with this turret system little bit more, than we will see. I think it's almost impossible to play on city and forest maps, but we will see.

[blayas]

Come in support of the new change implemented by devs , may need some adjustments but we are certainly on the right track , do what is necessary, but not return to the unreality of towers that move much faster than their real counterparts .

[Chefmoto1]

I think a lot of people that are upset about the changes are fine with the speed, unhappy with the weird mouse acceleration.

[Nate.]

I think a lot of people that are upset about the changes are fine with the speed, unhappy with the weird mouse acceleration.

exactly. I had no problem moving my turret around fairly quickly, but when actually going for a target, it was not easy because the momentum of the movement of the turret makes it go back and forth from where you want to aim.

[solidfire93]

every one is butthurt !!

guys give it more time and wait till they fix or tweak it

these guys are not EA !! It's PR Dev's, im sure they will make better for all of us

btw i would like to point out that the Deviation indicator helps alot

but at the same time make easer to snipe or kill some one but its not OP

you still need to take it easy and take your time if you want maximum killshot

i sniped on the jamaica map last night and it was amazing but i missed couple of targets coz i shot too fast (just for sake of testing) and it helps alot ! make infy better in PR

hope this armour issue wont be as bad as ppl say it ! im sure there will be fixes and tweaks

please old players don't leave us i hate when i read some one says ''it makes me stop playing PR''

maybe its time to do something else instade of tank

i think this will prevent assat whoring and give noob/intermediate players like us a chance to try out tanks APC before we get kicked from squads bcoz the Tag holders made the squad and it just for thier friends (which is totally normal for me since i love trans and infy squads and i'll make one)

hope this update dont split the community ! idk does the big issue is the tank turrets now ?!

[Zeno]

Looking from the realistic point of view, yes, you should not be able to 360 in 2 sec, but my experience as a real life gunner says that the sliding effect is very unnattural and unrealistic, when you let go og the stick the hydraulic motor stop and locks the cogs into position. A system where you would use WASD would be more realistic.

[Xander[nl]]

The only known ways to get turn rate limitations to actually work are b) enable a setting called RememberExcessInput, which does just what you'd think

Don't want to spoil the party but you do know whoever owns a mouse with sensitivity settings can easily overrule the turret traverse limitation? I can instantly multiply my DPI and the turret turns as fast as I want it to. Once players get used to the acceleration it will become completely unbalanced. It's what happens in FH2.

[FFG]

This may have to do with everyone being butthurt about the effectiveness of an experienced crew in Armor. I would chalk this up to the players being content not coming to the forums to counter-complain.

Too good at video games, plz nerf.

Seriously though, this is stupid. You shouldn't nerf something because people are good at it.

[FFG]

Real life fire control systems have brakes on the turret to stop you from accelerating past your target.

[Armchairman_Mao]

Too good at video games, plz nerf.

Seriously though, this is stupid. You shouldn't nerf something because people are good at it.

There actually is limit to how fast turrets can turn IRL.


Most obvious in early T-72(IIRC it was less than 20 degrees per second, which actually will take more than 12 seconds to do 360). That had to do with stabilizers(which stops working above 18-20degrees per second).


Make turret controlled by WASD is the final solution and, imo, the best one.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

;2103202']Don't want to spoil the party but you do know whoever owns a mouse with sensitivity settings can easily overrule the turret traverse limitation? I can instantly multiply my DPI and the turret turns as fast as I want it to. Once players get used to the acceleration it will become completely unbalanced. It's what happens in FH2.

Try to overrule in 1.3.5 plz.
We specifically implemented this feature to disallow playing with DPI.